Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[jrob23]

so I wasn't on this board when this might have been discussed...just heard today that the price for Jimmy Butler was only a #3 and #16 in 2016 draft? That doesn't seem credible. If so, why would Danny pass that up? He must really feel like Brown will be close to JB and Yabusele (not that he knew at the time he'd draft him) was the next Millsap.

as for the above trade. Why is it that in every trade scenario I see on here we have BOS getting so much and giving out so little? At least try to be realistic. If you want Nurkic and Korver, expect to give up Brown, Rozier and some picks. Young? 2nd rounders? c'mon.

[Slax]

so I wasn't on this board when this might have been discussed...just heard today that the price for Jimmy Butler was only a #3 and #16 in 2016 draft? That doesn't seem credible. If so, why would Danny pass that up? He must really feel like Brown will be close to JB and Yabusele (not that he knew at the time he'd draft him) was the next Millsap.

Where did you hear it? Sounds implausible to me. Butler is far more valuable than that package.

[Banks2Pierce]

so I wasn't on this board when this might have been discussed...just heard today that the price for Jimmy Butler was only a #3 and #16 in 2016 draft?

The price was Crowder/#3/#16/2017 BKN/either Amir or Jonas

We allegedly didn't include the 2017 BKN.

http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2016/06/27/boston-celtics-lowballed-chicago-bulls-for-jimmy-butler/

I could only find this, but matches what I'd remembered from around draft day.

[skywalker33]

Why would they do that? Olynyk is by far the best fit with Dwight in that package. Dwight/Faried/Nurkic front court is an incompatible mess.

I mean, I would cut Boston out of the deal too because it stinks for them, but it doesn't help the overall trade it hurts it.

KO is going to look to get paid, same reason they Hawks are open to trades. Nurkic is at least controlable for 2 more years and I feel he has better long term value than KO (else why would you guys be trading him ?). And let's be honest, what value does Young have in this league, they should change the name on the back of his jersey to "FILLER". The MIN 2nd does have some value but that wouldn't even get you Korver IMO.

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

[165bows]

KO is going to look to get paid, same reason they Hawks are open to trades. Nurkic is at least controlable for 2 more years and I feel he has better long term value than KO (else why would you guys be trading him ?). And let's be honest, what value does Young have in this league, they should change the name on the back of his jersey to "FILLER". The MIN 2nd does have some value but that wouldn't even get you Korver IMO.

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

[jmr07019]

KO is going to look to get paid, same reason they Hawks are open to trades. Nurkic is at least controlable for 2 more years and I feel he has better long term value than KO (else why would you guys be trading him ?). And let's be honest, what value does Young have in this league, they should change the name on the back of his jersey to "FILLER". The MIN 2nd does have some value but that wouldn't even get you Korver IMO.

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

We don't want to pay him and want to get something for him instead of losing him for nothing.

Despite wanting to get rid of Kelly I don't really want Nurkic who has offensive efficiency similar to Smart's without Smart's stellar defense. I would take Nurkic for spare parts (2nds) because he's still young and on a rookie contract but you'd likely rather keep Nurkic than take that garbage.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think Ainge eventually claimed Chicago wanted Bradley, Crowder AND the #3 pick. It was a high price then, but plausible. Now, given Bradley's improvement this year and Brown's showing so far, it's absurd.

And Olynyk is better than Nurkic right now, but he has a skill set which is duplicated by Horford, he hasn't taken a leap in his offensive production, and we're more in need of defense and rebounding at the 5.

Would have to think about which teams see a role for Olynyk - Toronto, probably - but his strengths are his shooting, pacing, and offensive IQ. The offense flows well whenever he's on the court, even when he's not scoring, because he makes the right pass, at the right speed, he knows where to rotate instinctively, when to step forward and back. It's a net positive which doesn't show up in scoring stats. They're nice things to have, but Horford is providing those, too.

[truth18]

Oooo yeah wall of shame baby

Don't get too excited, you have to engage Andrew in Pon Farr now. Cave and Curm too. No ties allowed on the Wall of Shame.

[skywalker33]

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

Olynyk's stat line foe 2016
in 28 games he's scoring 7.7ppg 3.8rpg 1.8apg 44%FG 34%3pt with a PER of 12.7

Nurkic stat line for 2016
in 30 games he scoring 9.1ppg 6.7rpg 1.4apg 52.9%FG 0-0 on 3pters with a PER of 16.4

If KO is an "above-average offensive big man", Nurkic is a star in the making. Also to note, KO is already 3 years older, probably is what he's gonna be, Nurkic has more time to develop to get to KO status (let's hope not).

As I said, perspective. As for Millsap, he';s already said he's going to enter free agency so why lose assets for him when we can (if we want a 32yr old fringe AS) just bid on him in 4 months, we'll have the cap space to do so, if he desires to come to DEN, we'll have more assets to look palatable and then more assets to trade to make the team better rather than having to pay. I guess the same could be said of KO as I'd make a decent assumption you aren't going to try and resign him, thus part of the idea of trading him.

[reload141]

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

Olynyk's stat line foe 2016
in 28 games he's scoring 7.7ppg 3.8rpg 1.8apg 44%FG 34%3pt with a PER of 12.7

Nurkic stat line for 2016
in 30 games he scoring 9.1ppg 6.7rpg 1.4apg 52.9%FG 0-0 on 3pters with a PER of 16.4

If KO is an "above-average offensive big man", Nurkic is a star in the making. Also to note, KO is already 3 years older, probably is what he's gonna be, Nurkic has more time to develop to get to KO status (let's hope not).

As I said, perspective. As for Millsap, he';s already said he's going to enter free agency so why lose assets for him when we can (if we want a 32yr old fringe AS) just bid on him in 4 months, we'll have the cap space to do so, if he desires to come to DEN, we'll have more assets to look palatable and then more assets to trade to make the team better rather than having to pay. I guess the same could be said of KO as I'd make a decent assumption you aren't going to try and resign him, thus part of the idea of trading him.

IF Nurkic was on the block (or asked to be traded) what would you be willing to accept from a Boston pov? Or am I really going to regret asking...

[CelticFaninLBC]

Yes, Milsap will be very intrigued to join a 35 win Denver team... *rollseyes*

[165bows]

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

Olynyk's stat line foe 2016
in 28 games he's scoring 7.7ppg 3.8rpg 1.8apg 44%FG 34%3pt with a PER of 12.7

Nurkic stat line for 2016
in 30 games he scoring 9.1ppg 6.7rpg 1.4apg 52.9%FG 0-0 on 3pters with a PER of 16.4

If KO is an "above-average offensive big man", Nurkic is a star in the making. Also to note, KO is already 3 years older, probably is what he's gonna be, Nurkic has more time to develop to get to KO status (let's hope not).

As I said, perspective. As for Millsap, he';s already said he's going to enter free agency so why lose assets for him when we can (if we want a 32yr old fringe AS) just bid on him in 4 months, we'll have the cap space to do so, if he desires to come to DEN, we'll have more assets to look palatable and then more assets to trade to make the team better rather than having to pay. I guess the same could be said of KO as I'd make a decent assumption you aren't going to try and resign him, thus part of the idea of trading him.

My perspective is counting stats without context are fairly meaningless. Basically that perspective on judging players with those stats is 20 years old and outdated.

Nukric was one of the very worst offensive players per possession in the league last year, Kelly is a solid average volume/efficiency combo that scores from various parts of the floor and creates for others.

[ddb]

Yes, Milsap will be very intrigued to join a 35 win Denver team... *rollseyes*

i'd much rather go get Paul George or Jimmy Butler and I am convinced that Danny could do it if he was willing to pay the price.
Smart/Jae/Zeller/BK17 and Memphis 1st gets it done and signals that Danny isn't messing around. Go get Blake this offseason, extend IT....make it happen. Would still have the BK18 pick for another intriguing young talent or trade bait. I need Banner 18 next year

[Captain_Caveman]

KO is going to look to get paid, same reason they Hawks are open to trades. Nurkic is at least controlable for 2 more years and I feel he has better long term value than KO (else why would you guys be trading him ?). And let's be honest, what value does Young have in this league, they should change the name on the back of his jersey to "FILLER". The MIN 2nd does have some value but that wouldn't even get you Korver IMO.

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

14-20.

22nd best team in a 30-team league where 5 teams a year try to lose on purpose.

Juuuuust good enough to have no real shot in the lottery.

There's no future
There's no future
There's no future for you

Told you so.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

KO>>>Nurk.

Olynyk is in the rotation on a playoff team with home court advantage. Nurkic is benched on a bad team (that's only looked decent since he hit the bench). If he had any trade value he'd be gone already, really.

Well, perception is everything....so if KO is better, why not KEEP him, why do BOS fans keep putting offers out there for him ? I'm sure you can get Korver for Rozier and that Minny 2nd or a couple of 2nds if that was the end game, which I don't think it was.

14-20.

22nd best team in a 30-team league where 5 teams a year try to lose on purpose.

Juuuuust good enough to have no real shot in the lottery.

There's no future
There's no future
There's no future for you

Told you so.

Dagger. Too cold.

[ddb]

Celtics have a bright future no matter what path they choose. But they are approaching the time to choose.

Sent from my SM-G930T using RealGM mobile app

[CelticFaninLBC]

Yes, Milsap will be very intrigued to join a 35 win Denver team... *rollseyes*

i'd much rather go get Paul George or Jimmy Butler and I am convinced that Danny could do it if he was willing to pay the price.
Smart/Jae/Zeller/BK17 and Memphis 1st gets it done and signals that Danny isn't messing around. Go get Blake this offseason, extend IT....make it happen. Would still have the BK18 pick for another intriguing young talent or trade bait. I need Banner 18 next year

Does Blake have any interest in Boston?

He seems like an LA guy, and Doc will most likely give him a 5 year max offer. I suspect he cares more about being a celeb than champ.

[Green89]

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

Olynyk's stat line foe 2016
in 28 games he's scoring 7.7ppg 3.8rpg 1.8apg 44%FG 34%3pt with a PER of 12.7

Nurkic stat line for 2016
in 30 games he scoring 9.1ppg 6.7rpg 1.4apg 52.9%FG 0-0 on 3pters with a PER of 16.4

If KO is an "above-average offensive big man", Nurkic is a star in the making. Also to note, KO is already 3 years older, probably is what he's gonna be, Nurkic has more time to develop to get to KO status (let's hope not).

As I said, perspective. As for Millsap, he';s already said he's going to enter free agency so why lose assets for him when we can (if we want a 32yr old fringe AS) just bid on him in 4 months, we'll have the cap space to do so, if he desires to come to DEN, we'll have more assets to look palatable and then more assets to trade to make the team better rather than having to pay. I guess the same could be said of KO as I'd make a decent assumption you aren't going to try and resign him, thus part of the idea of trading him.

My perspective is counting stats without context are fairly meaningless. Basically that perspective on judging players with those stats is 20 years old and outdated.

Nukric was one of the very worst offensive players per possession in the league last year, Kelly is a solid average volume/efficiency combo that scores from various parts of the floor and creates for others.

Nurkic makes an effort to grab rebounds. Olynyk just stands there and watches them go by. That's all I need to tell me who I'd rather have on my team.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Pretty simple, Olynyk is an above average offensive big man and useful rotation-type big, Nurkic is so far a fading prospect/deep bench guy, Millsap is an older bonafide starter and fringe AS type. I'm sure people could have other opinions but I'm pretty sure that's how it breaks down.

Olynyk's stat line foe 2016
in 28 games he's scoring 7.7ppg 3.8rpg 1.8apg 44%FG 34%3pt with a PER of 12.7

Nurkic stat line for 2016
in 30 games he scoring 9.1ppg 6.7rpg 1.4apg 52.9%FG 0-0 on 3pters with a PER of 16.4

If KO is an "above-average offensive big man", Nurkic is a star in the making. Also to note, KO is already 3 years older, probably is what he's gonna be, Nurkic has more time to develop to get to KO status (let's hope not).

As I said, perspective. As for Millsap, he';s already said he's going to enter free agency so why lose assets for him when we can (if we want a 32yr old fringe AS) just bid on him in 4 months, we'll have the cap space to do so, if he desires to come to DEN, we'll have more assets to look palatable and then more assets to trade to make the team better rather than having to pay. I guess the same could be said of KO as I'd make a decent assumption you aren't going to try and resign him, thus part of the idea of trading him.

My perspective is counting stats without context are fairly meaningless. Basically that perspective on judging players with those stats is 20 years old and outdated.

Nukric was one of the very worst offensive players per possession in the league last year, Kelly is a solid average volume/efficiency combo that scores from various parts of the floor and creates for others.

This is where I'm stuck - we know we have these new stats, but Olynyk is a volume/efficiency combo who can't rebound or score on his own. Nurkic is bad by advanced offensive stats, potentially elite by advanced defensive stats, and a very good rebounder. How do we square all those things?

There's still some murkiness in analytics/traditional stats/the eye test, and I haven't committed fully to the new analytics metrics. The stats tell us Olynyk is a fantastic cog, in Boston's system, and that he's likely to be a good cog in other systems in a similar role. And they tell us that Nurkic was great in Denver's defensive system and awful offensively. We don't know for sure, AFAIK, how advanced stats change with player development or team context. Draymond going to Detroit would've been an interesting test case for measuring defensive impact.

[Captain_Caveman]

Dagger. Too cold.

The PM this dude sent me the night the Nuggets beat a Celts team that was missing Horford, Crowder and Olynyk back in early November:

Know what that was ??
Sent: Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:51 am
by skywalker33

Mediocre vets with mediocre vets with a mediocre future. They are willing to spend 4 years building just to be average someday. This is exactly why they have never made the Finals and have really only had like 4 decent seasons in their 40 years in the league.

I literally would not even watch basketball if that were my team. The only reason I have the Nets below them in terms of future outlook is because we own all their draft picks.

There is no chance whatsoever that the Nuggets are going to do anything with these current players.

Ever.

Must of just been A MEDIOCRE BUTT-WHOOPIN' by players who have no chance to do anything...except go into Boston and destroy your C's

In sum, the beatings will continue.

FOREVER.