Trade Thread Part Deux

[SmartWentCrazy]

Kicking this new thread off with a non-Hayward idea, that I hate myself for pondering, but then I keep pondering it, so....

Smart, Grant, Green for Covington, Vonleh.

Assumes MIN doesn't get D-Lo and still needs a PG. Smart would be great for that soft-*** team.
We get taller, and wingier, lose a little playmaking, but sign a bought-out ET with the open spot. Or bring up Waters.

Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Covington, Theis
Wanamaker, ET, Hayward, Semi, Kanter

Death lineup: Kemba or ET, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Covington.

Wouldnt do it, but wondered if a Smart for Harris/Allen deal made sense, especially in light of Kyrie’s comments and his affinity for Smart.

Intriguing, can't say I've watched enough Allen to really know, though. Harris is meh to me, solid, but not Smart trade worthy. So it's really is Allen worth it?

I dont think I’d do it, but it depends on peoples evaluations of Allen for sure. Value wise, I think it makes sense. Maybe we can get another small filler.

Personally, I’m expecting us to play the long game. Guessing were playing for 2-3 years from now and are prepared to continue to let the Jays and Smart grow. Development is slow and unsexy, but the smart play IMO. Any move we make now should be to help them get to where we need them to be.

2-3 years from now, I see us rolling out a Smart-Brown-Tatum lineup. Its absolutely the foundation of a championship level defense. Just need to figure out what were doing at the 4-5— I’m optimistic Grant can serve as a PJ Tucker facsimile, but we need to figure out how to get that last big IMO.

[djFan71]

Wouldnt do it, but wondered if a Smart for Harris/Allen deal made sense, especially in light of Kyrie’s comments and his affinity for Smart.

Intriguing, can't say I've watched enough Allen to really know, though. Harris is meh to me, solid, but not Smart trade worthy. So it's really is Allen worth it?

I dont think I’d do it, but it depends on peoples evaluations of Allen for sure. Value wise, I think it makes sense. Maybe we can get another small filler.

Personally, I’m expecting us to play the long game. Guessing were playing for 2-3 years from now and are prepared to continue to let the Jays and Smart grow. Development is slow and unsexy, but the smart play IMO. Any move we make now should be to help them get to where we need them to be.

2-3 years from now, I see us rolling out a Smart-Brown-Tatum lineup. Its absolutely the foundation of a championship level defense. Just need to figure out what were doing at the 4-5— I’m optimistic Grant can serve as a PJ Tucker facsimile, but we need to figure out how to get that last big IMO.

Agree on the long game, but not as positive Smart is going to ever be the starter. I was all about that this summer - no Kemba, use capspace to take on salary for assets (like Iggy trade), draft tall, mobile SF/PFs and/or tall PG to develop, hand the keys to Smart/Jay/Jay and grow this thing. But.... Ainge went the complete opposite way in every single way, lol.

I don't think Danny sees him as a true starting PG - but likes him in his current role. I also fear he is hurt too often due to his style of play, and that has to be factored in, as well as longevity. All of which is fine, for the most part, but he's basically missed the first round of the playoffs the last 2 years.

I'm not even as worried about the C position. I want a long/mobile/swing/PF type some not all-world Siakam mold. Why I was all about NAW (tall PG part), Clarke, Claxton in the draft. Sekou too, but also cuz it looks like it sounds like sea cow and we could have nicknamed him Manatee.

[Bleeding Green]

Kicking this new thread off with a non-Hayward idea, that I hate myself for pondering, but then I keep pondering it, so....

Smart, Grant, Green for Covington, Vonleh.

Assumes MIN doesn't get D-Lo and still needs a PG. Smart would be great for that soft-*** team.
We get taller, and wingier, lose a little playmaking, but sign a bought-out ET with the open spot. Or bring up Waters.

Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Covington, Theis
Wanamaker, ET, Hayward, Semi, Kanter

Death lineup: Kemba or ET, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Covington.

I like Covington a lot, but Smart is 3+ years younger and likely just as good. Vonleh wouldn't even play on this team when everyone is healthy.

Man, I thought you'd be the one with me on the 6'7" wing that can guard 1-4, and shoot the 3. Did you see those lineups?!?

I don't think I'd even do it. I'm just looking for that tall wing and he's one of the few out there (due to wingspan and hair) that qualifies and is slightly available.

Oh yeah I love it, but I love Grant Williams and Smart more and a marginal improvement to this roster isn't worth losing Grant and getting and older player.

[K For Three]

Kicking this new thread off with a non-Hayward idea, that I hate myself for pondering, but then I keep pondering it, so....

Smart, Grant, Green for Covington, Vonleh.

Assumes MIN doesn't get D-Lo and still needs a PG. Smart would be great for that soft-*** team.
We get taller, and wingier, lose a little playmaking, but sign a bought-out ET with the open spot. Or bring up Waters.

Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Covington, Theis
Wanamaker, ET, Hayward, Semi, Kanter

Death lineup: Kemba or ET, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Covington.

Wouldnt do it, but wondered if a Smart for Harris/Allen deal made sense, especially in light of Kyrie’s comments and his affinity for Smart.

I wouldn't do it and I doubt the Celtics would too. Smart is a winner and the last thing we want is for him to do all the dirty work on the court for Irving to make his life easier.

I would love a Harris type in spurts for his shooting but I hope we can find someone else.

Intrigued by Allen's potential/youth but he seems kinda soft at times too. Allen was pretty good with DLo and Dinwiddie when they started. He won't ever mesh with Kyrie though and is full on intimidated by him. But Allen is someone Marks and Atkinson have always been super high on so it will be interesting lol.

[djFan71]

I like Covington a lot, but Smart is 3+ years younger and likely just as good. Vonleh wouldn't even play on this team when everyone is healthy.

Man, I thought you'd be the one with me on the 6'7" wing that can guard 1-4, and shoot the 3. Did you see those lineups?!?

I don't think I'd even do it. I'm just looking for that tall wing and he's one of the few out there (due to wingspan and hair) that qualifies and is slightly available.

Oh yeah I love it, but I love Grant Williams and Smart more and a marginal improvement to this roster isn't worth losing Grant and getting and older player.

I probably treat Grant as too much of a throw in. I like his game, moxy, etc, but am hung up on the size. I just don't see ever truly regretting letting him go. If he's PJ Tucker in 3 years, great, but, I'm not killing myself over it.

But, yeah, hopefully that package could bring back more than just RoCo, just not seeing anything out there. I bet if put this on the MIN board, they'd turn it down too.

At least we got to talk about non-Hayward trades for a bit.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Grant Williams, Poirier, Ojeleye, BOS or MILW 1st rounder for Covington.

Trade 2 - Celtics build for 2020-21 and beyond, get longer and add a 3 point shooter.

Hayward, Edwards, MEM pick for Turner, McDermott & McConnell (Indiana probably will want more. Maybe Theis?)

Starters - Turner, Tatum, Covington, Brown, Walker
Bench - Kanter, Theis, McDermott, Smart, McConnell, R. Williams, Langford, Wannamaker

[Bleeding Green]

Man, I thought you'd be the one with me on the 6'7" wing that can guard 1-4, and shoot the 3. Did you see those lineups?!?

I don't think I'd even do it. I'm just looking for that tall wing and he's one of the few out there (due to wingspan and hair) that qualifies and is slightly available.

Oh yeah I love it, but I love Grant Williams and Smart more and a marginal improvement to this roster isn't worth losing Grant and getting and older player.

I probably treat Grant as too much of a throw in. I like his game, moxy, etc, but am hung up on the size. I just don't see ever truly regretting letting him go. If he's PJ Tucker in 3 years, great, but, I'm not killing myself over it.

But, yeah, hopefully that package could bring back more than just RoCo, just not seeing anything out there. I bet if put this on the MIN board, they'd turn it down too.

At least we got to talk about non-Hayward trades for a bit.

I just don't want to trade any young, cheap players on this team unless it is to bring back a top-20 player. With Kemba, Brown, Tatum all about to be on max deal in two years, the Celtics are going to need some cheap rotation pieces.

Please tell me ET isn't Evan Turner.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Would we consider Kevin Love and Sexton or Garland for Hayward and Wannamaker?

I think Danny would think about that. If Cleveland is getting rid of Love, while he's still a good player, they'll have to attach a sweetener because of his contract. I actually think this would be an okay trade for both sides. Helps with roster balance.

Hayward's contract situation being a great unknown, and us not having significant cap space if he up and walks away with no return, makes it kind of prudent to keep extra salary around to give us options. I'm not as down on Love as many on this board are. Flip side is, I'm not as high on Hayward as many are, too. I consider both Love and Hayward good, not great players.

I don't think Cleveland would give up Sexton or Garland, though, since they're trying to accumulate young players and picks.

For a long time I felt badly for Hayward because of his gruesome injury. Still do, but this is a business. The injury was over 2 years ago, and while he's a good player, I just think it'd be better to move on from him at this point. Maybe better for him, too, as his stint in Boston has kind of been a disaster. I'm for a more balanced roster, too.

My .02

[djFan71]

Oh yeah I love it, but I love Grant Williams and Smart more and a marginal improvement to this roster isn't worth losing Grant and getting and older player.

I probably treat Grant as too much of a throw in. I like his game, moxy, etc, but am hung up on the size. I just don't see ever truly regretting letting him go. If he's PJ Tucker in 3 years, great, but, I'm not killing myself over it.

But, yeah, hopefully that package could bring back more than just RoCo, just not seeing anything out there. I bet if put this on the MIN board, they'd turn it down too.

At least we got to talk about non-Hayward trades for a bit.

I just don't want to trade any young, cheap players on this team unless it is to bring back a top-20 player. With Kemba, Brown, Tatum all about to be on max deal in two years, the Celtics are going to need some cheap rotation pieces.

Please tell me ET isn't Evan Turner.

Then you are definitely not trading them. Yes, it's Evan Turner, but he'd be cheap...

[100proof]

Well, this is my first attempt at a Hayward trade. I don't think we should, but here goes anyway.

Boston trades Hayward to Cleveland, gets Covington and Dieng from Timberwolves.
Cleveland trades Love to Timberwolves and get Hayward.
Minn trades Covington and Dieng to Boston and gets Love.

Why for Boston:
We get the 4 we need in Covington, and a back up big in Deng. We also save 5 mil to help off set the loss of having to clear a roster spot if another small trade is not done.

Why for Cleveland:
Easy, they get out of Love's contract and get the younger player with out losing much scoring......normally.

Why for Minn:
Love goes home to play beside Towns. They would make a really good 1-2 punch on the frontline. Love could also helps Towns get better.

I think dieng starts here. Hella underrated center who is lost behind kat.

Think its a little too good for minny and a little light for boston though honestly.

Towns is 150x better than Love. Tf can Love teach him hahah

I dont think anyone would ever argue otherwise, but love has won in the playoffs. There is a lesson there.

[Fencer reregistered]

I just don't see investing the requisite resources to get and keep Love in a defender with poor mobility. Enes? That's a different matter. If he's useless in a particular game or series, that's tolerable. But Love? That would hurt a lot.

[Bleeding Green]

I probably treat Grant as too much of a throw in. I like his game, moxy, etc, but am hung up on the size. I just don't see ever truly regretting letting him go. If he's PJ Tucker in 3 years, great, but, I'm not killing myself over it.

But, yeah, hopefully that package could bring back more than just RoCo, just not seeing anything out there. I bet if put this on the MIN board, they'd turn it down too.

At least we got to talk about non-Hayward trades for a bit.

I just don't want to trade any young, cheap players on this team unless it is to bring back a top-20 player. With Kemba, Brown, Tatum all about to be on max deal in two years, the Celtics are going to need some cheap rotation pieces.

Please tell me ET isn't Evan Turner.

Then you are definitely not trading them. Yes, it's Evan Turner, but he'd be cheap...

I'd be cheap too.

ET is washed up. I'd puke if he were getting a minute on this team. Put him in the Jamal Crawford and IT bin for washed up players.

[Captain_Caveman]

It's really hard to rate drafts, but this is the best analysis I've found: http://thedataface.com/2019/06/sports/best-drafting-nba-teams

You still get issues like LeBron being a huge net-positive pick for the Cavs, despite that being the most obvious draft pick in the history of the NBA. And the Pelicans rank higher than the Celtics despite their only good picks being Chris Paul and Anthony Davis. Literally anyone could have picked Anthony Davis. And the Heat rank high despite having so few picks and also flunking on Michael Beasley. Imagine the outrage if Ainge flubbed a top-3 pick. Sixers are up there in the top-10 and have blown multiple top-10 picks in the last decade. I would personally rank them near the bottom in terms of what they got out of their picks. Just abysmal stuff. Basically I think everyone sucks at drafting so just get as many picks as you can.

Disagree with the methodology or whatever, but it's a nicely visualized layout of the past 20 drafts.

I'd disagree with this methodology on a number of levels. Highly skewed towards no-brainer picks like LeBron, and guys who put up stats on bad teams like the Knicks. Accounting for his options at the spots he drafted at, Ainge is a high performer, IMO. Most of his picks would go higher in a redraft, even including Olynyk the year he passed on Giannis.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Man, I thought you'd be the one with me on the 6'7" wing that can guard 1-4, and shoot the 3. Did you see those lineups?!?

I don't think I'd even do it. I'm just looking for that tall wing and he's one of the few out there (due to wingspan and hair) that qualifies and is slightly available.

Oh yeah I love it, but I love Grant Williams and Smart more and a marginal improvement to this roster isn't worth losing Grant and getting and older player.

I probably treat Grant as too much of a throw in. I like his game, moxy, etc, but am hung up on the size. I just don't see ever truly regretting letting him go. If he's PJ Tucker in 3 years, great, but, I'm not killing myself over it.

But, yeah, hopefully that package could bring back more than just RoCo, just not seeing anything out there. I bet if put this on the MIN board, they'd turn it down too.

At least we got to talk about non-Hayward trades for a bit.

The thing with Grant is that he’s unreal defensively. His on/off and impact metrics are exceptional on that end for a rookie. His offense is gross, but he has a lot of tools and is worth the patience.

[Bleeding Green]

It's really hard to rate drafts, but this is the best analysis I've found: http://thedataface.com/2019/06/sports/best-drafting-nba-teams

You still get issues like LeBron being a huge net-positive pick for the Cavs, despite that being the most obvious draft pick in the history of the NBA. And the Pelicans rank higher than the Celtics despite their only good picks being Chris Paul and Anthony Davis. Literally anyone could have picked Anthony Davis. And the Heat rank high despite having so few picks and also flunking on Michael Beasley. Imagine the outrage if Ainge flubbed a top-3 pick. Sixers are up there in the top-10 and have blown multiple top-10 picks in the last decade. I would personally rank them near the bottom in terms of what they got out of their picks. Just abysmal stuff. Basically I think everyone sucks at drafting so just get as many picks as you can.

Disagree with the methodology or whatever, but it's a nicely visualized layout of the past 20 drafts.

I'd disagree with this methodology on a number of levels. Highly skewed towards no-brainer picks like LeBron, and guys who put up stats on bad teams like the Knicks. Accounting for his options at the spots he drafted at, Ainge is a high performer, IMO. Most of his picks would go higher in a redraft, even including Olynyk the year he passed on Giannis.

Knicks are one of the worst teams in the last ten years by this metric. The majority of all their good picks came in that 2004-2005 window where the Knicks got Ariza, David Lee and Channing Frye and were brilliant in the draft. So I don't think the Knicks are getting credit for their players putting up stats on bad teams. Ariza, Lee and Frye were all great players on other franchises eventually.

If you sort by last ten years, the only team in the top 7 who had a first overall pick was the Pelicans (and Celtics, but they traded it), so I don't think the methodology is wrong there either.

[Dogen]

Would we consider Kevin Love and Sexton or Garland for Hayward and Wannamaker?

No.

Neither would Cleveland.

[batabatuta]

Grant is still a rookie but has contributed more to the team than any Celtic rookie or sophomore this season. He will greatly improve over time so i wouldn't trade him for now.

[snowman]

Well there is talk about Love to Portland. Maybe we could get in on that. Something like Hayward to Cleveland, Love to Portland, and Whiteside and Collins to Boston ?

This is my last Hayward trade idea. I really don't think we should trade any of our top 8 players. After that, who knows.

[Floody100]

Andrew McCeltic **** dominated the wall. Holy hell, what a performance.

Did help when he posted 2 full pages of trade ideas by himself

[Celtics_History_Lesson]

If Minnesota does get chucker D Russell, they may need to make a bunch of moves to lessen some money.

Perrier, Ojeleye for Layman, J Bell means Minnesota moves a little bit of money, Boston gets more options at power forward.



S Adams could arrive in a trade for Smart and filler to OKC.



So many ways for the Celtics to get bigger, and better.



There is no future for a team that plays Tatum, J Brown, Hayward at power forward and Semi and G Williams at center.