Al Horford Thread – (Confirms he will play in 2024-25)

[Larry_Russell]

I explain the Clippers predicament in the post. Their hands are tied.

I think other teams will be interested. The price could rise and it is no lock he would come to the Cs. We'd have to recruit him.

why would we recruit him to be our 4th string center? he ain't getting minutes over rob, al or theis..

If they move on from Horford, this is a legit conversation.

I think they will move one from horford, but it wont be as a piece for a 3rd star, as they feel that they are more about "fit". Much like in San Antonio and Butler and earlier Stevens teams, you have a stud or 2 and surround them with the right team. As opposed to having 3 stars and sign cheap vets to fill out a roster an hpe the stars will elevate everyones play.

Bucks have the right idea of a modern team, same as Miami, imo. Have you stud player, get an another good running mate then surround them with the right fitting pieces.


Lets have a comparison run to the reigning champs:

Giannis - Tatum
Middleton - Brown
Jrue - Smart
DDV - White
Lopez - Timelord

Augustine - Pritchard
Connaughton - Nesmith
Tucker - Grant
Portis - Theis
Forbes -

It is not inconceivable for everyone to make the improvement that is needed from them between now and next season.

We need Tatum to build on his improvements and continue to become a Giannis level impact player (it isnt that far fetched. Rebounding is there, scoring is there, defense is close, playmaking is close)
Brown to continue with marginal improvements
Smart to continue his recent smart basketball
White to get shooting better again.
Pritchard to turn into a serviceable backup like an Augustine
Nesmith to become as impactful as Pat
Grant to not change from where he is right now
Theis to be the theis that we all know.

These are not big improvements.

Then add a couple of good fitting bench pieces that can fill in as needed, or perhaps improve upon the blueprint laid out by the championship bucks team.
ie: Have a better bench scorer than Pat/Nesmith
Have a better backup PG than Augustine/Pritchard

I think that is the market for Horford. Not a "star" piece but a "fit" piece.
Everything lately has been about the "fit"

Guys who didnt fit are gone
White fits like a glove
Horford fits
Theis fits
Smart fits
Pritch fits
Grant fits
Aaron fits

All about maximizing the JAys, as it should be.

[Andrew McCeltic]

He's on track to be the next PJ Tucker / Jae Crowder type. They were the 2 starting PF's in the NBA finals this past year. Both of them have been starters for quite some time now.

I'm not ready to say Grant should be a full time starter right now at this second - I think you keep bringing him off the bench this season but if he keeps improving, he could earn the starting PF spot at some point next season - and he's already under contract for next season anyways..

If Grant is giving you good, tough, switchable defense. Doing the little things, playing hard, setting screens, hitting 40% from 3 and hovering around 10 PPG (he's currently at 12.2 PPG per 36 mins this season), then that's a damn solid 5th starter.

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

you mean like this?

Read on Twitter

Yeah, watch the basketballnews link in the Grant thread, he’s gotten sneaky good at driving and dishing on closeouts.. you can project a little development with his handles..

[Larry_Russell]

He's on track to be the next PJ Tucker / Jae Crowder type. They were the 2 starting PF's in the NBA finals this past year. Both of them have been starters for quite some time now.

I'm not ready to say Grant should be a full time starter right now at this second - I think you keep bringing him off the bench this season but if he keeps improving, he could earn the starting PF spot at some point next season - and he's already under contract for next season anyways..

If Grant is giving you good, tough, switchable defense. Doing the little things, playing hard, setting screens, hitting 40% from 3 and hovering around 10 PPG (he's currently at 12.2 PPG per 36 mins this season), then that's a damn solid 5th starter.

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

you mean like this?

Read on Twitter

Didnt rob claim that was a shot and not a pass from Grant?

[Hal14]

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

you mean like this?

Read on Twitter

Didnt rob claim that was a shot and not a pass from Grant?

No idea. Even if he did say that, the vibe I get from Rob doing interviews is 90% of the time he's joking around.

Also, the point of me posting this video wasn't the pass. I posted it in response to someone who was implying that Grant does not, and never will have the ability to bring the ball up the floor in transition.

[Curmudgeon]

Grant's behind the back move was pretty sweet.

On another front, the wiretap says that Richaun Holmes is expected to be on the block. Not a bad player for around the MLE. Hustles and rebounds.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Holmes could be an MLE target, I guess, but I don't know if he's a better fit here than in Sacramento.. they don't want to pay him 10 million to be Sabonis' backup

[Curmudgeon]

Holmes is under contract, not a free agent.

[Garbanzo]

He's on track to be the next PJ Tucker / Jae Crowder type. They were the 2 starting PF's in the NBA finals this past year. Both of them have been starters for quite some time now.

I'm not ready to say Grant should be a full time starter right now at this second - I think you keep bringing him off the bench this season but if he keeps improving, he could earn the starting PF spot at some point next season - and he's already under contract for next season anyways..

If Grant is giving you good, tough, switchable defense. Doing the little things, playing hard, setting screens, hitting 40% from 3 and hovering around 10 PPG (he's currently at 12.2 PPG per 36 mins this season), then that's a damn solid 5th starter.

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

you mean like this?

Read on Twitter

Yes, like this!
Never saw him do something like this before.
He tried to score in my opinion.. but that's what I'd like to see from him.
I saw Tucker play a lot in Israel. He would lead the break very often. He could be a natural ball handler in lower competition. I don't think Grant is capable of doing it. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

[playa-hater]

Bumping this up. I am torn on Horford. He is doing so many things well. He is unselfish, plays very deceptively good defense. Has versatility and chemistry. I am guessing a really good lockeroom presence.... and yet.. He seemingly can't make the widest open 3 point shots anymore. Not even at close to league average. I do feel that may stop this Boston team from ever reaching their top potential. With that said, it will not be so easy replacing all the things Al can do. Grant is certainly improving and can do some of the "glue things" Al does. But I am not convinced Grant's ceiling will ever do what Al can do. Especially rebounding and interior defense/shot blocking.

I think these up coming playoffs will help shed some light on Big Al.

[sam_I_am]

Bumping this up. I am torn on Horford. He is doing so many things well. He is unselfish, plays very deceptively good defense. Has versatility and chemistry. I am guessing a really good lockeroom presence.... and yet.. He seemingly can't make the widest open 3 point shots anymore. Not even at close to league average. I do feel that may stop this Boston team from ever reaching their top potential. With that said, it will not be so easy replacing all the things Al can do. Grant is certainly improving and can do some of the "glue things" Al does. But I am not convinced Grant' ceiling will ever do what Al can do. Especially rebounding and interior defense/shot blocking.

I think these up coming playoffs will help shed some light on Big Al.

Great post.

Al may not be worth his 26 million dollars but waiving him to save 12 million isn’t worth it because you can’t get a guy like him for that much.

If we can’t trade his contract for a good fit max contract, I’d rather keep him and get another Derrick White type guy to add to the mix. He has been unbelievable this year even if he isn’t the all star caliber big he used to be.

[31to6]

Bumping this up. I am torn on Horford. He is doing so many things well. He is unselfish, plays very deceptively good defense. Has versatility and chemistry. I am guessing a really good lockeroom presence.... and yet.. He seemingly can't make the widest open 3 point shots anymore. Not even at close to league average. I do feel that may stop this Boston team from ever reaching their top potential. With that said, it will not be so easy replacing all the things Al can do. Grant is certainly improving and can do some of the "glue things" Al does. But I am not convinced Grant' ceiling will ever do what Al can do. Especially rebounding and interior defense/shot blocking.

I think these up coming playoffs will help shed some light on Big Al.

Great post.

Al may not be worth his 26 million dollars but waiving him to save 12 million isn’t worth it because you can’t get a guy like him for that much.

If we can’t trade his contract for a good fit max contract, I’d rather keep him and get another Derrick White type guy to add to the mix. He has been unbelievable this year even if he isn’t the all star caliber big he used to be.

Al is a superstar defensively. It’ll be an interesting decision this summer. Paying him next year and hoping to keep him at small $ beyond that isn’t out of the question, especially if we’re contenders and his 3 ball comes back.

[robbie84]

Bumping this up. I am torn on Horford. He is doing so many things well. He is unselfish, plays very deceptively good defense. Has versatility and chemistry. I am guessing a really good lockeroom presence.... and yet.. He seemingly can't make the widest open 3 point shots anymore. Not even at close to league average. I do feel that may stop this Boston team from ever reaching their top potential. With that said, it will not be so easy replacing all the things Al can do. Grant is certainly improving and can do some of the "glue things" Al does. But I am not convinced Grant' ceiling will ever do what Al can do. Especially rebounding and interior defense/shot blocking.

I think these up coming playoffs will help shed some light on Big Al.

Great post.

Al may not be worth his 26 million dollars but waiving him to save 12 million isn’t worth it because you can’t get a guy like him for that much.

If we can’t trade his contract for a good fit max contract, I’d rather keep him and get another Derrick White type guy to add to the mix. He has been unbelievable this year even if he isn’t the all star caliber big he used to be.

Al is a superstar defensively. It’ll be an interesting decision this summer. Paying him next year and hoping to keep him at small $ beyond that isn’t out of the question, especially if we’re contenders and his 3 ball comes back.

Our biggest need when Al leaves is having that body to put on Embid and Giannis in the playoffs. Hopefully we can keep him for 1 or 2 years on the cheap and he can start hitting threes at his career average. Whoever replaces Al will need to be a mobile, strong beast. Not many guys like that in the league that can also shoot like Al.

[CelticFaninLBC]

As a means to avoid the luxury tax, I suspect Stevens will be directed to deal Horford for a smaller deal in the $14 - $19 million range, and will need to attach a FRP or two to get someone like Barnes or Wood.

[Elrod is Back]

We waive and extend Al and the hit is $4.83 million annually for three seasons. It is not a big deal.

Hartenstein gives us a huge center for the Embiids of the world, and he is mobile. Would make a nice big for our rotation.

Here is Zach Lowe at ESPN:

6. Isaiah Hartenstein, please shoot

Are you ready to feel confused when your favorite team pays some backup center you've never heard of a non-trivial portion of the mid-level exception? Get ready! Hartenstein has been sensational backing up Ivica Zubac. He's shooting 62%, and dishing about 4.1 dimes per 36 minutes. Hartenstein is (I swear this is true) one of the best passing bigs in the league -- spraying fire in 4-on-3 situations out of the pick-and-roll.

He can shoot from there too; Hartenstein has drilled a preposterous 54% from floater range, per Cleaning The Glass.

Hartenstein is a key cog in bench units that have won games for the rag-tag Clippers. The Clips have outscored opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions (!) with Hartenstein on the floor; they are minus-212 (!) for the season when he rests. He's the main reason Serge Ibaka plays for the Milwaukee Bucks.

Hartenstein has even tightened his defense. Opponents have hit just 48% at the rim with Hartenstein nearby, the second-stingiest mark -- behind only Nic Claxton -- among 105 rotation players challenging at least three such shots per game. Hartenstein ranks among the top 20 or so (!!) in several advanced metrics.

That's a bit much. Hartenstein's footwork on defense can get wonky. He fouls so much he can't play starter-level minutes. Everyone loves a pass-first teammate, but sometimes when you are a very large human very close to the basket, you should shoot:

Go up and get fouled, big fella!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33363246/zach-lowe-10-nba-things-nikola-jokic-volleyball-star-single-play-maybe-save-lebron-james-lakers

[Hal14]

We waive and extend Al and the hit is $4.83 million annually for three seasons. It is not a big deal.

Hartenstein gives us a huge center for the Embiids of the world, and he is mobile. Would make a nice big for our rotation.

Here is Zach Lowe at ESPN:

6. Isaiah Hartenstein, please shoot

Are you ready to feel confused when your favorite team pays some backup center you've never heard of a non-trivial portion of the mid-level exception? Get ready! Hartenstein has been sensational backing up Ivica Zubac. He's shooting 62%, and dishing about 4.1 dimes per 36 minutes. Hartenstein is (I swear this is true) one of the best passing bigs in the league -- spraying fire in 4-on-3 situations out of the pick-and-roll.

He can shoot from there too; Hartenstein has drilled a preposterous 54% from floater range, per Cleaning The Glass.

Hartenstein is a key cog in bench units that have won games for the rag-tag Clippers. The Clips have outscored opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions (!) with Hartenstein on the floor; they are minus-212 (!) for the season when he rests. He's the main reason Serge Ibaka plays for the Milwaukee Bucks.

Hartenstein has even tightened his defense. Opponents have hit just 48% at the rim with Hartenstein nearby, the second-stingiest mark -- behind only Nic Claxton -- among 105 rotation players challenging at least three such shots per game. Hartenstein ranks among the top 20 or so (!!) in several advanced metrics.

That's a bit much. Hartenstein's footwork on defense can get wonky. He fouls so much he can't play starter-level minutes. Everyone loves a pass-first teammate, but sometimes when you are a very large human very close to the basket, you should shoot:

Go up and get fouled, big fella!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33363246/zach-lowe-10-nba-things-nikola-jokic-volleyball-star-single-play-maybe-save-lebron-james-lakers

sounds like a nice player. but it looks like you're proposing we bring Al back next season AND sign hartenstein. i'm just not seeing how that makes any sense.

theis is having a hard time getting rotation minutes right now. why? because Udoka only wants to play 2 centers in the rotation (hell, most teams only play 2 centers at the most in their rotation). Rob and Al - that's 2. Theis is the third. Hartenstein would be the 4th string center.

There's probably a lot of teams in the league where Hartenstein would be 1 of their top 2 (or at worst, top 3) centers on the roster. In Boston, he'd be our 4th best center..

[hugepatsfan]

We waive and extend Al and the hit is $4.83 million annually for three seasons. It is not a big deal.

Hartenstein gives us a huge center for the Embiids of the world, and he is mobile. Would make a nice big for our rotation.

Here is Zach Lowe at ESPN:

6. Isaiah Hartenstein, please shoot

Are you ready to feel confused when your favorite team pays some backup center you've never heard of a non-trivial portion of the mid-level exception? Get ready! Hartenstein has been sensational backing up Ivica Zubac. He's shooting 62%, and dishing about 4.1 dimes per 36 minutes. Hartenstein is (I swear this is true) one of the best passing bigs in the league -- spraying fire in 4-on-3 situations out of the pick-and-roll.

He can shoot from there too; Hartenstein has drilled a preposterous 54% from floater range, per Cleaning The Glass.

Hartenstein is a key cog in bench units that have won games for the rag-tag Clippers. The Clips have outscored opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions (!) with Hartenstein on the floor; they are minus-212 (!) for the season when he rests. He's the main reason Serge Ibaka plays for the Milwaukee Bucks.

Hartenstein has even tightened his defense. Opponents have hit just 48% at the rim with Hartenstein nearby, the second-stingiest mark -- behind only Nic Claxton -- among 105 rotation players challenging at least three such shots per game. Hartenstein ranks among the top 20 or so (!!) in several advanced metrics.

That's a bit much. Hartenstein's footwork on defense can get wonky. He fouls so much he can't play starter-level minutes. Everyone loves a pass-first teammate, but sometimes when you are a very large human very close to the basket, you should shoot:

Go up and get fouled, big fella!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33363246/zach-lowe-10-nba-things-nikola-jokic-volleyball-star-single-play-maybe-save-lebron-james-lakers

Not saying that he wouldn't be a good signing, but there are a few significant drawbacks if you're looking to him to take Horford's role:

1) It says right in your quote that he's a bench unit guy. Horford is a guy we depend on to defend the elite starting level bigs of the world. You're asking for a huge leap there.

2) It also says he struggles not to foul, which would only be even more prevalent if he were playing starting bigs. Also prevents him from taking on more minutes.

3) His offensive shot might not be respectable enough to allow for 2 big lineups that have driven a huge piece of our defensive dominance.

Basically, Hartenstein seems more like a solid enough backup big than he does a viable candidate to keep 2-big lineups with RWilliams going in a post Horford future. Again, good argument to be made he can help, but I don't think we're really doing apples to apples here.

Horford is just a really unique player and most likely scenario is that we need to adjust to a new future without being able to play the way we do out of 2 big lineups after he leaves, whenever that is.

[hugepatsfan]

Bumping this up. I am torn on Horford. He is doing so many things well. He is unselfish, plays very deceptively good defense. Has versatility and chemistry. I am guessing a really good lockeroom presence.... and yet.. He seemingly can't make the widest open 3 point shots anymore. Not even at close to league average. I do feel that may stop this Boston team from ever reaching their top potential. With that said, it will not be so easy replacing all the things Al can do. Grant is certainly improving and can do some of the "glue things" Al does. But I am not convinced Grant' ceiling will ever do what Al can do. Especially rebounding and interior defense/shot blocking.

I think these up coming playoffs will help shed some light on Big Al.

His shot has been frustrating for sure. It doesn't factor too much in whether I want to keep him through because it's just hard for me to imagine he forgot how to shoot, ya know? Since he started shooting from 3 his last year in ATL up until last season, he was at 36.6% overall and never below 34.4% in a single season. Now this year he's at 30.3%... hard for me not to just chalk that up as an outlier year and expect him to go back to mid 30s percentage going forward.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Jalen Smith would be a decent get if we had the MLE but we won't and Indiana can offer him more. Didn't realize they got down to 85 million in committed salary next year.. under the radar great rebuild/reload..

We think Orlando is willing to pay Bamba?

[Larry_Russell]

I want us to try and get Hart from portland into the TPE. HE fits the team, fits the TPE and (assuming that Portland wants max salary and is planning on waving his NG contract) he fits Portland wanting the capspace

Hart can play sg-pf and then we just keep AL around till deadline then maybe shop him then.

Horford/Grant
Timelord/Theis

If we are talking in Hypotheticals and Al is traded for Beal, then you still have a bigman rotation of

Tatum/Grant
Timelord/Theis

Just fill that with cheap vet min contracts and you are more than fine.

[Jammer]

Some Al Horford Career Highlights:

2008 All-Rookie 1rst Team (the last season that the Celtics hoisted a Banner)
2011 1rst Team All-NBA (voted one of the 5 Best Players in the League by Peers/Press)
2018 1rst Team All Defense

Celtics rarely seem to play as well as when Al is on the court.

2022-2023 Salary
$14.5 Million Guaranteed
$19.5 Million Guaranteed if Celtics reach Finals
26.5 Million Guaranteed if Celtics win NBA Championship