OT: Officer Crowley

[theman]

It doesn't really matter if Gates is retelling the story in his favor or not. Rodney King may have been all **** up on PCP, but it still doesn't give the police the right to hit him with a batton while he's clearly subdued.

As far as Obama making race the issue, race was the issue in this before Obama answered the reporter's question. He addressed the very real problems of racism and our police force in a general way because that's what this story (whether or not race had anything to do with it) brought to the fore. If people want to pretend race is no longer an issue by quoting a couple of bigots that like to call black people monkeys, fine. But it doesn't make it so.

Gates, not Crowley, put race into the situation. Whites get arrest for similar actions all the time.

[sully00]

Gates, not Crowley, put race into the situation. Whites get arrest for similar actions all the time.

This is bull and the scary part is I don't think you even know it.

Have you seen a picture of the professor? But that doesn't even matter. The cop could have and should have just left after he found out it was the guys house. It isn't that friggin hard, that is his job. He panicked that the guy was going to make a racist complaint so he cuffed him to trade off the arrest to avoid it.

If he did this to any of Mr.Gates neighbors his ass would have been fired and there would not be a news story.

Obama was right the cop acted stupidly. Crowley was at work not at home. He abused his power as an officer of the law and now Mr. Gates is abusing his as a prominent black man.

[theman]

This is bull and the scary part is I don't think you even know it.

Have you seen a picture of the professor? But that doesn't even matter. The cop could have and should have just left after he found out it was the guys house. It isn't that friggin hard, that is his job. He panicked that the guy was going to make a racist complaint so he cuffed him to trade off the arrest to avoid it.

If he did this to any of Mr.Gates neighbors his ass would have been fired and there would not be a news story.

Obama was right the cop acted stupidly. Crowley was at work not at home. He abused his power as an officer of the law and now Mr. Gates is abusing his as a prominent black man.

No. Crowley acted as we should have. Despite Crowley being thrown under the bus by Cambridge's mayor the Chief of Police is standing behind Crowley.

Crowley responded to a report of TWO forcibly entering a home. He ask Gates to step out side and Gates refused. Crowley asked if there was any one else in the house. Gates refused to answer. Gates admits all of this. Gates also admits to "getting in his (Crowley's) face". Why would Gates refuse to answer a question like "Is there anyone else in the house"? Even if Gates is the owner if he does not know that there is someone else there then it is possible an intruder is inside and is a possible threat to the safety of both Crowley and Gates.

Clearly the person who acted stupid was Gates. All he had to do is say "Yes, officer I live here. Here is my ID. By the way the reason I had to force the door open is because the lock is broken from a previous burglary."

[floyd]

^ So clearly he had to be arrested.

I wasn't there, I don't know who escalated the race stuff. But I do know that your claim that Obama wants to make race a national issue is moronic. He wants Health Care to be the national issue. He doesn't need to deal with this crap, but he has to because he's the first black president. Get a clue.

[Kefa461]

From what I read.......


1.Officer responds and gets it right.
2.Owner/renter gets irate with mistaken identity.
3.Scene is secure.
4.Situation becomes a pissing match between owner/officer.


What is missing is why when backup is called.....the two upset parties are not dis-engaged. Especially when there are no original charges...just for the sake of the Officer.

The Officer was doing his duty.....but.....this should have never gotten to the point of charges being filed on the Owner/Renter. Cooler Heads should have backed both off and settled this then.

[sully00]

theman

Your confusing the issue. Gates was an A-hole sure but the situation was also absurd. The cop was just there doing his job. Then he should have just done his job. Hell if he feels it is necessary cuff the 58 year old guy with the cane and secure the scene then do it. Then give him your name and badge number and go on your way. "To protect and serve." This is not Iran, citizens have the right to be uncooperative with the police especially in there own home.

What you don't do is arrest the man while his neighbors video it and then file some BS charge only to find out he has the Governor and the President in his cell phone and your on cable news.

[aboubata]

Let me ask you this, this guy just came from a trip and he only had his Harvard ID??????

Gates wasn't arrested because he is black, it is because he is an arrogant Harvard professor.

Anything could have been going on, I broke into my house before and if the police shows up I would have been more than patient with them while doing their job.

Everyone should shut up about this, including our beloved president

[sweatdog]

What nobody has mentioned is there were *several* break-ins in that neighborhood recently, including a previous break in at Gates house. The witness also informed police there was more than 1 man forcibly entering the home, to which police responded promptly. If you are an officer responding to a break in, do you stand at the front door and ring the doorbell like a Jehova's witness, while the potential criminals escape or set an ambush? Also, dont the police have the right to act on reasonable suspicion? An officer entering an unsecured home should be and would be anxious and vigilant, not knowing if or when an ambush may be coming.

Also what has not been mentioned: When asked to provide identification, Gates hesitated, then provided his Harvard ID and not his license, which to me is a silent threat backed by his professional title.

Put yourself Gates' position, but remove the race element. If you told an officer (who just responded promptly to reports of criminal activity on your property) "you dont know who youre messing with" and when asked to step outside you respond with "i'll step outside with your momma", do you honestly believe the situation would not at least escalate or result in your incarceration?

What if an unseen gunman were standing behind Gates with a gun to his head, instructing him to get rid of the cop? Consider all the other scenarios that could occur that an officer has to be wary of. Let cops do their job for cripes sake.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

There's been a lot of attention on one line uttered by Obama. All he is saying is that Crowley was stupid in arresting Gates. Not that Crowley acted inappropriately in any other way, or that Gates did nothing wrong.

Let's be honest here: Crowley did act stupidly. You don't arrest a famous black Harvard professor for yelling at you in his own home. That was pretty dumb on his part. Unless Gates did something physically, he should have let it go once Gates showed ID. From what I understand, Gates escalated the situation by not immediately showing ID (which Crowley was certainly justified in asking for).

Based on what I've heard, I don't think Crowley was motivated by race. Gates overreacted and he overreacted in kind.

However, I do tend to distrust cops. I think they lie whenever expedient.

[Rocky5000]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

[canman1971]

Sounds like both overreacted. Both admitted it wasn't handled properly in a joint statement. Not sure why it needs to be made into more than it is.

[Kefa461]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

The 2nd part of the story........the cooling down time. No need for an arrest. Everything could and should have been handled inside the residence.


ps....does anyone know if the Off. rides by himself........

[sully00]

He called for backup, there is at least 3 cops, all about a foot taller than the guy in the arrest photo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_ ... r_analysis

[theman]

theman

Your confusing the issue. Gates was an A-hole sure but the situation was also absurd. The cop was just there doing his job. Then he should have just done his job. Hell if he feels it is necessary cuff the 58 year old guy with the cane and secure the scene then do it. Then give him your name and badge number and go on your way. "To protect and serve." This is not Iran, citizens have the right to be uncooperative with the police especially in there own home.

What you don't do is arrest the man while his neighbors video it and then file some BS charge only to find out he has the Governor and the President in his cell phone and your on cable news.

Actually, you do not.

[LongTimeFan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorderly_conduct

A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

This is not about the law and who was right. This is about power. Crowley should have waited for a Black cop to handle the situation. Gates yelling and insulting his mother has nothing to do with this. Crowley's mistake was responding at all.

Crowley was asked do you think you made a mistake, would you have done something different? And he replied "like taking the firefighters' exam?" He's in a no win situation.

[Fencer reregistered]

Let me ask you this, this guy just came from a trip and he only had his Harvard ID??????

And his driver's license, which he also gave to the cop. Duh.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

I don't know where people get some of this from ...

[theman]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

What is this like tag? I'm on base you can't touch me? The police can arrest you in your home.

He called for backup, there is at least 3 cops, all about a foot taller than the guy in the arrest photo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_ ... r_analysis

And cops can't arrest people shorter than them?


I'm going to form a crime ring with a bunch of midgets who invite people to their homes and then mug them.


http://audio.weei.com/m/25432556/stg-james-crowley-cambridge-police.htm

[Fencer reregistered]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

And also officer arresting somebody just for noisily criticizing him, in any venue.

To me, yelling at a cop and asking him to take a specific, reasonable action (provide badge number) is a classic example of exercizing the First Amendment right to "petition the government for redress of grievances"

[sully00]

theman

Your confusing the issue. Gates was an A-hole sure but the situation was also absurd. The cop was just there doing his job. Then he should have just done his job. Hell if he feels it is necessary cuff the 58 year old guy with the cane and secure the scene then do it. Then give him your name and badge number and go on your way. "To protect and serve." This is not Iran, citizens have the right to be uncooperative with the police especially in there own home.

What you don't do is arrest the man while his neighbors video it and then file some BS charge only to find out he has the Governor and the President in his cell phone and your on cable news.

Actually, you do not.

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

Actually, you do.

[Joyeuse]

It may well have had nothing whatsoever to do with race, but I do believe this was an abuse of power. Should Gates have kept his cool? Yes. Was it inappropriate of him to refuse to show his identification initially and then, after showing his identification, act belligerently toward Crowley? Yes. Was he being uncooperative and unhelpful to police officers who in all likelihood were just trying to do their job? Yes. But the fact remains that Gates was arrested from within his own property--after the police had already verified it was his--for talking back to a police officer. This is true no matter whose report you believe. And that really shouldn't happen, ever.

And in some ways it does fit in with a pattern of police officers being more likely to incarcerate people of color than whites. Perhaps if Gates had been white, Crowley is still frustrated by his uncooperative nature, but restrains from making the questionable arrest. Does that mean it was racially motivated? Not in any conscious and deliberate way. But I have studied enough psychology to know that our perceptions can be very subtly influenced by the race of those with whom we are interacting. Race may have potentially influenced the officers' decision to arrest Gates.

Which is to say, I basically agree with President Obama's assessment of the situation: it may not be a superb example of racism because we don't know what would have happened if Gates were white, but there is a pattern of police treating blacks more harshly than whites. And on top of that, it was not particularly smart to arrest Gates. So, I don't see anything wrong with Obama's answer to that question.

btw completely off topic but I've met Professor Gates.