Welcome to Boston Enes Kanter!

[celticfan42487]

I think we need to take a little closer work on how the team is going to fit.

Kemba is a pick and roll player, I think he was top 5 in PnR attempts last season. He doesn't work if he's not PnR.

Kanter, is a top level roll man on the PnR. So yes Kanter will get some low post touches, but a lot of his shots are going to be coming naturally off of a Kemba PnR. Which again, Kemba like IT needs PnRs to be anywhere near his best efficient form of offense.

Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are going to be upset about shots. I think Hayward will be a professional about it, I'm not so sure about the Jays.

But in a lineup of

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Kanter

Brown and Tatum would work best playing the Bradley/Crowder style roled. And Hayward playing the Kelly 0 styled role in an IT like offense.

The main difference is our current 3 unlike the previous 3 (potentially with Kelly 0 and Hayward as an exception) are much better at driving to the basket after a kickout 3 if they are not open.

But that's how this team would be the most effective on offense. And yes sure we'll sprinkle in some Kanter and Tatum ISOs as we go. I'm sure if there's a really small guard on Smart we'll sprinkle in some low post Smart things too. It's a long game and you don't always have your starting 5 on. But that's the 80% of the game rules we should be playing by... if everyone buys in and wants to win as bad as Kemba does. I question Brown, Tatum, and Smart's professionalism to take a step back and not play ISO Melo ball.

Good post.

I'm absolutely concerned about Tatum's fit with Kemba. It's imperative for Tatum to be more of a pick & pop threat for the puzzle to fit together. He wasn't that good as a roll man last year. 0.96 PPP per synergy. On 28 total such possessions all season.

Horford and Morris being on the floor can explain why he didn't see the ball as much in those situations. But for Tatum's game to go to the next level, being the ballhandler he is, he needs to develop as a roll man and use his accuracy from 18-20 feet to his advantage.

Kanter complicates this. If Kanter is on the floor, you NEED to be running P&Rs with him because he's killing you at the other end. This renders Tatum a spot-up shooter. Which, as we've seen, is neither his best role long-term, nor a role that encourages good habits.

I mean... idk about that not being his best long term role. He set the record for corner 3 percentage as a rookie right?

Maybe us thinking he's not best used there is just us dreaming he's Paul Pierce when in reality he's a physically weaker Rashard Lewis. Just you know, a record-setting 3 point version haha.

[ParticleMan]

I think we need to take a little closer work on how the team is going to fit.

Kemba is a pick and roll player, I think he was top 5 in PnR attempts last season. He doesn't work if he's not PnR.

Kanter, is a top level roll man on the PnR. So yes Kanter will get some low post touches, but a lot of his shots are going to be coming naturally off of a Kemba PnR. Which again, Kemba like IT needs PnRs to be anywhere near his best efficient form of offense.

Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are going to be upset about shots. I think Hayward will be a professional about it, I'm not so sure about the Jays.

But in a lineup of

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Kanter

Brown and Tatum would work best playing the Bradley/Crowder style roled. And Hayward playing the Kelly 0 styled role in an IT like offense.

The main difference is our current 3 unlike the previous 3 (potentially with Kelly 0 and Hayward as an exception) are much better at driving to the basket after a kickout 3 if they are not open.

But that's how this team would be the most effective on offense. And yes sure we'll sprinkle in some Kanter and Tatum ISOs as we go. I'm sure if there's a really small guard on Smart we'll sprinkle in some low post Smart things too. It's a long game and you don't always have your starting 5 on. But that's the 80% of the game rules we should be playing by... if everyone buys in and wants to win as bad as Kemba does. I question Brown, Tatum, and Smart's professionalism to take a step back and not play ISO Melo ball.

Good post.

I'm absolutely concerned about Tatum's fit with Kemba. It's imperative for Tatum to be more of a pick & pop threat for the puzzle to fit together. He wasn't that good as a roll man last year. 0.96 PPP per synergy. On 28 total such possessions all season.

Horford and Morris being on the floor can explain why he didn't see the ball as much in those situations. But for Tatum's game to go to the next level, being the ballhandler he is, he needs to develop as a roll man and use his accuracy from 18-20 feet to his advantage.

Kanter complicates this. If Kanter is on the floor, you NEED to be running P&Rs with him because he's killing you at the other end. This renders Tatum a spot-up shooter. Which, as we've seen, is neither his best role long-term, nor a role that encourages good habits.

i don't understand the logic about Kanter. he's not a great p-n-r guy. his strength is hanging around the bucket, getting deep post opportunities and putbacks. kemba's p-n-r's will be primarily with hayward and tatum. both are more pick and pop guys but that's fine, because that leaves the middle open for kemba to drive, or dish to kanter. brown is on the weak side as a spot up 3 guy, or driving on closeouts. tatum will get plenty of opportunities in this scheme. brown less so but that's probably for the best.

[24istheLAW]

I mean... idk about that not being his best long term role. He set the record for corner 3 percentage as a rookie right?

Maybe us thinking he's not best used there is just us dreaming he's Paul Pierce when in reality he's a physically weaker Rashard Lewis. Just you know, a record-setting 3 point version haha.

He's not a good screen-setter, so there is some question whether he can fill the role.

But if Jayson Tatum is going to be a Tier 1 guy in the NBA.... I'm certain he's going to be working heavily off ballhandlers as a roll man. That accuracy from long-2 becomes a feature instead of a bug. Defenders will have to respect him and it'll consistently create open shots for Kemba or himself. Meanwhile, it'd give him touches with some momentum. He's demonstrated he can get to the rack when he has a head of steam, but lacks the explosiveness to do it from a standstill around the arc.

The NBA's star-tier offensive players are the ones who give you efficient offense, but can also provide some difficult, low-percentage offense in a pinch. I think Tatum has demonstrated he can create late clock offense like one of those players, which is why everyone's so enamored with him. But to actually become a star-tier offensive player.... he has to also find an identity producing efficient offense. And I'm convinced that a Dirk-ish presence, lurking around the top of the key and floating into open spaces or punishing mismatches, is how his skill set could potentially get there.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'm also going to leave this link here. A few folks have asked about his 3pt shooting. He's 27 years old and throughout his career hasn't taken too many 3's. But he is absolutely capable of developing that aspect of his game. He has a nice form and release on his 3. On the Celtics playing with Kemba/Smart/Hayward, Kanter is going to get more opportunities then ever before to take and make open 3's. Horford developed this aspect of his game at around 29 years old.

https://youtu.be/IgUHF2tI5zg

Good economical shooting motion. It would be cool if he could hit those reliably.

[Fencer reregistered]

i hope kanter doesn't get dunked on too much and lose confidence

When you have one of the world's greatest villains after you and shrug it off, mental weakness is probably not high on your list of problems.

[celticfan42487]

I think we need to take a little closer work on how the team is going to fit.

Kemba is a pick and roll player, I think he was top 5 in PnR attempts last season. He doesn't work if he's not PnR.

Kanter, is a top level roll man on the PnR. So yes Kanter will get some low post touches, but a lot of his shots are going to be coming naturally off of a Kemba PnR. Which again, Kemba like IT needs PnRs to be anywhere near his best efficient form of offense.

Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are going to be upset about shots. I think Hayward will be a professional about it, I'm not so sure about the Jays.

But in a lineup of

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Kanter

Brown and Tatum would work best playing the Bradley/Crowder style roled. And Hayward playing the Kelly 0 styled role in an IT like offense.

The main difference is our current 3 unlike the previous 3 (potentially with Kelly 0 and Hayward as an exception) are much better at driving to the basket after a kickout 3 if they are not open.

But that's how this team would be the most effective on offense. And yes sure we'll sprinkle in some Kanter and Tatum ISOs as we go. I'm sure if there's a really small guard on Smart we'll sprinkle in some low post Smart things too. It's a long game and you don't always have your starting 5 on. But that's the 80% of the game rules we should be playing by... if everyone buys in and wants to win as bad as Kemba does. I question Brown, Tatum, and Smart's professionalism to take a step back and not play ISO Melo ball.

Good post.

I'm absolutely concerned about Tatum's fit with Kemba. It's imperative for Tatum to be more of a pick & pop threat for the puzzle to fit together. He wasn't that good as a roll man last year. 0.96 PPP per synergy. On 28 total such possessions all season.

Horford and Morris being on the floor can explain why he didn't see the ball as much in those situations. But for Tatum's game to go to the next level, being the ballhandler he is, he needs to develop as a roll man and use his accuracy from 18-20 feet to his advantage.

Kanter complicates this. If Kanter is on the floor, you NEED to be running P&Rs with him because he's killing you at the other end. This renders Tatum a spot-up shooter. Which, as we've seen, is neither his best role long-term, nor a role that encourages good habits.

i don't understand the logic about Kanter. he's not a great p-n-r guy. his strength is hanging around the bucket, getting deep post opportunities and putbacks. kemba's p-n-r's will be primarily with hayward and tatum. both are more pick and pop guys but that's fine, because that leaves the middle open for kemba to drive, or dish to kanter. brown is on the weak side as a spot up 3 guy, or driving on closeouts. tatum will get plenty of opportunities in this scheme. brown less so but that's probably for the best.

Well just look at his "highlights" video with crap NY roster.

Notice the vast majority of his highlights are him setting a pick and rolling to the basket?

Watch on YouTube

Yes he's also very good in the low post, but he's not only a low post back down guy who can't move.

He gets a lot of his points and his offensive rebounds coming OFF of a pick and roll and rolling to the basket. While providing vertical space as a lob option to the PG coming off the pick. That's him at his most distrubtive state.

Using him purely to slowly back down a player is nice, but that's not using him in the most effective possible manner as a player because then it's just an ISO he makes or misses and the defense is never put under question, or forced to rotate leaving exposed opportunities for him to exploit and gain offensive rebounding position.

And again this is the Knicks, who's collection of talent to playmake and spread the floor brought them I think the worst record in the NBA. So it isn't like his rolling was the function of some amazing PG they had (I truly don't know who their PG was this year. I know Frank the Tank is alive and that's about it for them.)

Also using logic, you know he's not Shaq. Yet for past 4 years he's been putting up 55%-60% shooting on ~10 shots a game. There's no way he's dominating the league backing down at that rate like Shaq. He's doing that by being extremely effective in the pick and roll and getting layups and dunks off it, or just wide open mid range shots.

[celticfan42487]

I mean... idk about that not being his best long term role. He set the record for corner 3 percentage as a rookie right?

Maybe us thinking he's not best used there is just us dreaming he's Paul Pierce when in reality he's a physically weaker Rashard Lewis. Just you know, a record-setting 3 point version haha.

He's not a good screen-setter, so there is some question whether he can fill the role.

But if Jayson Tatum is going to be a Tier 1 guy in the NBA.... I'm certain he's going to be working heavily off ballhandlers as a roll man. That accuracy from long-2 becomes a feature instead of a bug. Defenders will have to respect him and it'll consistently create open shots for Kemba or himself. Meanwhile, it'd give him touches with some momentum. He's demonstrated he can get to the rack when he has a head of steam, but lacks the explosiveness to do it from a standstill around the arc.

The NBA's star-tier offensive players are the ones who give you efficient offense, but can also provide some difficult, low-percentage offense in a pinch. I think Tatum has demonstrated he can create late clock offense like one of those players, which is why everyone's so enamored with him. But to actually become a star-tier offensive player.... he has to also find an identity producing efficient offense. And I'm convinced that a Dirk-ish presence, lurking around the top of the key and floating into open spaces or punishing mismatches, is how his skill set could potentially get there.

So, so, so, so true.

Yeah maybe, hopefully his body can grow and he can handle the PF position and get really good at setting picks.

I also agree, I mean when you lead the league in 3 point efficiency from corner 3s and lead the lead in inefficiency in ISO scoring while also being complete **** at playmaking... maybe you're not a Pierce, LeBron, Kobe styled player.

Playing in the same way Dirk did does seem like a way Tatum could generate space and the room he needs to run down hill or be open enough to convert layups and dunks.

With the quick ISO move into a long 2 as a fall back option when things go to **** and a bail out shot is needed.

[Half-Full]

I think we need to take a little closer work on how the team is going to fit.

Kemba is a pick and roll player, I think he was top 5 in PnR attempts last season. He doesn't work if he's not PnR.

Kanter, is a top level roll man on the PnR. So yes Kanter will get some low post touches, but a lot of his shots are going to be coming naturally off of a Kemba PnR. Which again, Kemba like IT needs PnRs to be anywhere near his best efficient form of offense.

Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are going to be upset about shots. I think Hayward will be a professional about it, I'm not so sure about the Jays.

But in a lineup of

Kemba
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Kanter

Brown and Tatum would work best playing the Bradley/Crowder style roled. And Hayward playing the Kelly 0 styled role in an IT like offense.

The main difference is our current 3 unlike the previous 3 (potentially with Kelly 0 and Hayward as an exception) are much better at driving to the basket after a kickout 3 if they are not open.

But that's how this team would be the most effective on offense. And yes sure we'll sprinkle in some Kanter and Tatum ISOs as we go. I'm sure if there's a really small guard on Smart we'll sprinkle in some low post Smart things too. It's a long game and you don't always have your starting 5 on. But that's the 80% of the game rules we should be playing by... if everyone buys in and wants to win as bad as Kemba does. I question Brown, Tatum, and Smart's professionalism to take a step back and not play ISO Melo ball.

Good post.

I'm absolutely concerned about Tatum's fit with Kemba. It's imperative for Tatum to be more of a pick & pop threat for the puzzle to fit together. He wasn't that good as a roll man last year. 0.96 PPP per synergy. On 28 total such possessions all season.

Horford and Morris being on the floor can explain why he didn't see the ball as much in those situations. But for Tatum's game to go to the next level, being the ballhandler he is, he needs to develop as a roll man and use his accuracy from 18-20 feet to his advantage.

Kanter complicates this. If Kanter is on the floor, you NEED to be running P&Rs with him because he's killing you at the other end. This renders Tatum a spot-up shooter. Which, as we've seen, is neither his best role long-term, nor a role that encourages good habits.

i don't understand the logic about Kanter. he's not a great p-n-r guy. his strength is hanging around the bucket, getting deep post opportunities and putbacks. kemba's p-n-r's will be primarily with hayward and tatum. both are more pick and pop guys but that's fine, because that leaves the middle open for kemba to drive, or dish to kanter. brown is on the weak side as a spot up 3 guy, or driving on closeouts. tatum will get plenty of opportunities in this scheme. brown less so but that's probably for the best.

Kanter may not be a great p-n-r guy, but Poirier is. That's his game (check out his highlight videos). He definitely will be a good fit with Kemba.

[sam_I_am]

Say this real fast:

What’s up Enes?

[ParticleMan]

Good post.

I'm absolutely concerned about Tatum's fit with Kemba. It's imperative for Tatum to be more of a pick & pop threat for the puzzle to fit together. He wasn't that good as a roll man last year. 0.96 PPP per synergy. On 28 total such possessions all season.

Horford and Morris being on the floor can explain why he didn't see the ball as much in those situations. But for Tatum's game to go to the next level, being the ballhandler he is, he needs to develop as a roll man and use his accuracy from 18-20 feet to his advantage.

Kanter complicates this. If Kanter is on the floor, you NEED to be running P&Rs with him because he's killing you at the other end. This renders Tatum a spot-up shooter. Which, as we've seen, is neither his best role long-term, nor a role that encourages good habits.

i don't understand the logic about Kanter. he's not a great p-n-r guy. his strength is hanging around the bucket, getting deep post opportunities and putbacks. kemba's p-n-r's will be primarily with hayward and tatum. both are more pick and pop guys but that's fine, because that leaves the middle open for kemba to drive, or dish to kanter. brown is on the weak side as a spot up 3 guy, or driving on closeouts. tatum will get plenty of opportunities in this scheme. brown less so but that's probably for the best.

Well just look at his "highlights" video with crap NY roster.

Notice the vast majority of his highlights are him setting a pick and rolling to the basket?

Watch on YouTube

Yes he's also very good in the low post, but he's not only a low post back down guy who can't move.

He gets a lot of his points and his offensive rebounds coming OFF of a pick and roll and rolling to the basket. While providing vertical space as a lob option to the PG coming off the pick. That's him at his most distrubtive state.

Using him purely to slowly back down a player is nice, but that's not using him in the most effective possible manner as a player because then it's just an ISO he makes or misses and the defense is never put under question, or forced to rotate leaving exposed opportunities for him to exploit and gain offensive rebounding position.

And again this is the Knicks, who's collection of talent to playmake and spread the floor brought them I think the worst record in the NBA. So it isn't like his rolling was the function of some amazing PG they had (I truly don't know who their PG was this year. I know Frank the Tank is alive and that's about it for them.)

Also using logic, you know he's not Shaq. Yet for past 4 years he's been putting up 55%-60% shooting on ~10 shots a game. There's no way he's dominating the league backing down at that rate like Shaq. He's doing that by being extremely effective in the pick and roll and getting layups and dunks off it, or just wide open mid range shots.

yeah that's good stuff, kanter is a gifted offensive player. never said he was bad at the p-n-r, just that it doesn't seem like that needs to be our bread and butter play. i wasn't sure about the idea that because he is hurting us at the other end we need to run p-n-r with him on the offensive end. that was the connection i couldn't figure out. kanter is going to hurt us on D no matter what he does on offense. we should just run the best offense possible, which i think is primarily dribble handoffs to kemba coming off picks, mixing up between hayward, tatum, and kanter doing the handoffs and picks.

[Celtic Esquire]

Is this the kiss of death from Calipari?

Read on Twitter

[Fencer reregistered]

Is this the kiss of death from Calipari?

Read on Twitter

How so?

(To be clear, practice-not-playing was about rules, rather than skill or health.)

[sam_I_am]

When Brad yells down the bench to put Kanter in the game...

“You’re up Enes

[31to6]

I'm also going to leave this link here. A few folks have asked about his 3pt shooting. He's 27 years old and throughout his career hasn't taken too many 3's. But he is absolutely capable of developing that aspect of his game. He has a nice form and release on his 3. On the Celtics playing with Kemba/Smart/Hayward, Kanter is going to get more opportunities then ever before to take and make open 3's. Horford developed this aspect of his game at around 29 years old.

https://youtu.be/IgUHF2tI5zg

Good economical shooting motion. It would be cool if he could hit those reliably.

I bet we’ll get to see quite a bit of this! (And think it might work though I’d rather him down low and on the glass)

[ThunderCeltic]

You'll love Enes!!

[brackdan70]

When Brad yells down the bench to put Kanter in the game...

“You’re up Enes

Brilliant.

[brackdan70]

I'm also going to leave this link here. A few folks have asked about his 3pt shooting. He's 27 years old and throughout his career hasn't taken too many 3's. But he is absolutely capable of developing that aspect of his game. He has a nice form and release on his 3. On the Celtics playing with Kemba/Smart/Hayward, Kanter is going to get more opportunities then ever before to take and make open 3's. Horford developed this aspect of his game at around 29 years old.

https://youtu.be/IgUHF2tI5zg

Good economical shooting motion. It would be cool if he could hit those reliably.

I bet we’ll get to see quite a bit of this! (And think it might work though I’d rather him down low and on the glass)

I am putting over under at 20 made 3s. Optimistic but realistic imo

[brackdan70]

My biggest concern is how to retain the dude after he puts up a 20/10 season next year...I think the best we can offer will be the Mid-Level.

[31to6]

When Brad yells down the bench to put Kanter in the game...

“You’re up Enes

both Es in his name are 'soft' Es (like Tyler Ennis), so these jokes don't quite work. Unlike good old Ennis Whatley back in the day!

[cloverleaf]

Finally some good rebounders in the front court! My hope is that Rob can learn a lot from Enes and Vincent this year both on the boards and in the PnR.