Trade Thread Part Deux

[SmartWentCrazy]

Neither of us or anyone here saw horford getting what he got from Philly. Hayward is 16/6/5 IMO someone will pay him

Except I did:

Honestly think he’ll get a 4/100 deal, if not more. Every team could use a guy like Horford and many teams have money to spend.

Id try to have him opt in and then give him a 3/70 extension.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835178&p=75019614&hilit=Horford#p75019614

Thats me from last May.

The market last year was way more conducive for people to get paid and Horford is a significantly better player than Hayward is today. He may crack 20, but it wont be by much.

Memphis, Atlanta and Cleveland are the best fits for him and those are pretty big stretches at that. This would be a bad year for him to opt out.

As someone who also swore up and down that Horford would opt out, you are low on Hayward.

What team is going to give him a big deal? Memphis? Atlanta?

This market is not conducive to him getting a big deal. The teams with money arent going to be looking to max out a 30 year old wing with a very questionable injury history. Theyre all young and still building and not looking for a one-way veteran to help them over the top.

[Captain_Caveman]

Except I did:




viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835178&p=75019614&hilit=Horford#p75019614

Thats me from last May.

The market last year was way more conducive for people to get paid and Horford is a significantly better player than Hayward is today. He may crack 20, but it wont be by much.

Memphis, Atlanta and Cleveland are the best fits for him and those are pretty big stretches at that. This would be a bad year for him to opt out.

As someone who also swore up and down that Horford would opt out, you are low on Hayward.

What team is going to give him a big deal? Memphis? Atlanta?

This market is not conducive to him getting a big deal. The teams with money arent going to be looking to max out a 30 year old wing with a very questionable injury history. Theyre all young and still building and not looking for a one-way veteran to help them over the top.

Another major fallacy that I see people doing every year with free agency is assuming that multiple teams cannot easily create cap room. Half the league can get to $25m+ with a wave of their hand. Several would to land Hayward, IMO.

[MagicBagley18]

As someone who also swore up and down that Horford would opt out, you are low on Hayward.

What team is going to give him a big deal? Memphis? Atlanta?

This market is not conducive to him getting a big deal. The teams with money arent going to be looking to max out a 30 year old wing with a very questionable injury history. Theyre all young and still building and not looking for a one-way veteran to help them over the top.

Another major fallacy that I see people doing every year with free agency is assuming that multiple teams cannot easily create cap room. Half the league can get to $25m+ with a wave of their hand. Several would to land Hayward, IMO.

Also to us we know being the 8th or 7th seed is the absolute worst spot to be in but some of these teams literally have to try and make the playoffs or field a treadmill-ish team just to get fans to the games and have any shred of relevancy after years and years of incompetence. We have seen many times over history of free agency a team signs a player hoping that he can be a piece just to make them a viable playoff eligible team.

We all agree it’s bad business and bad team management but it happens more often than not.

[SmartWentCrazy]

As someone who also swore up and down that Horford would opt out, you are low on Hayward.

What team is going to give him a big deal? Memphis? Atlanta?

This market is not conducive to him getting a big deal. The teams with money arent going to be looking to max out a 30 year old wing with a very questionable injury history. Theyre all young and still building and not looking for a one-way veteran to help them over the top.

Another major fallacy that I see people doing every year with free agency is assuming that multiple teams cannot easily create cap room. Half the league can get to $25m+ with a wave of their hand. Several would to land Hayward, IMO.

Then it should be easy for you to name one. Closest i can come up with is Portland, but they can only realistically free up about 20M.

[Captain_Caveman]

What team is going to give him a big deal? Memphis? Atlanta?

This market is not conducive to him getting a big deal. The teams with money arent going to be looking to max out a 30 year old wing with a very questionable injury history. Theyre all young and still building and not looking for a one-way veteran to help them over the top.

Another major fallacy that I see people doing every year with free agency is assuming that multiple teams cannot easily create cap room. Half the league can get to $25m+ with a wave of their hand. Several would to land Hayward, IMO.

Then it should be easy for you to name one. Closest i can come up with is Portland, but they can only realistically free up about 20M.

I gotta do this again? From the Jaylen extension thread... some names may have changed since then.

#504 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Teams that can get significant cap room with no effort:
Knicks
Pistons
Heat
Pelicans
Kings
Spurs
Raptors

Teams that can get significant cap room with minimal effort:
Lakers
Timberwolves
Bulls
Nuggets
Thunder
Suns
Mavericks
Blazers
Jazz
Wizards

From there, any one of those teams can be leveraged by an unrestricted free agent to make their way to nearly any of the teams not named above.

[100proof]

For us, sure. But why for MIN?

They need playmaking to make a playoff push, and a vet presence to run the show. Hayward gives them that is spades.

Gordon, Semi and Boston pick to Minny
Covington, and Bucks Pick to Orlando
Dieng, Gordon to Orlando

If he's healthy and consistent. Which he won't be able to prove he is by Feb 5. And, he just came out and said his foot will be an ongoing issue he has to manage. I just don't see him as having positive value at this deadline, esp with the player option.

We're kinda stuck with hoping he gets healthy and back to where he was in Nov. And if he does, we reap the rewards. But, I don't know why another team would want to assume that risk and send back good players to do so.

Well, it is minimal cost to a team like minny. The upside far outweighs the negative. I mean, they dont take on extra salary, they dont take on more years, and at his current level of play he inproves the team, and his beginning if season level of play he propells them further into the playoffs.

Its a gamble, but for some teams it is far less of one than others, imo.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Another major fallacy that I see people doing every year with free agency is assuming that multiple teams cannot easily create cap room. Half the league can get to $25m+ with a wave of their hand. Several would to land Hayward, IMO.

Then it should be easy for you to name one. Closest i can come up with is Portland, but they can only realistically free up about 20M.

I gotta do this again? From the Jaylen extension thread... some names may have changed since then.

#504 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Teams that can get significant cap room with no effort:
Knicks -saving for Giannis
Pistons - about to enter year 1 of a long rebuild
Heat -saving for Giannis
Pelicans - cap space gone after they max Ingram
Kings - gone after they paid Hield.
Spurs - gone once DDR opts in
Raptors -saving for Giannis

Teams that can get significant cap room with minimal effort:
Lakers - will be gone with AD’s hold
Timberwolves - false
Bulls - this one is possible but am guessing they
Nuggets - gone once they resign Milsap; even still they only have about 20 due to Murray
Thunder - Nope, not with CP3 and Adams, they cant get much more than 20
Suns - possible
Mavericks - saving for Giannis
Blazers - can only get about 20
Jazz- LOL
Wizards - possible

From there, any one of those teams can be leveraged by an unrestricted free agent to make their way to nearly any of the teams not named above.

So his hope is that the Bulls, Suns or Wizards pay a first to free up 25+. Dont see it, he’s gonna opt in.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

[Captain_Caveman]

Then it should be easy for you to name one. Closest i can come up with is Portland, but they can only realistically free up about 20M.

I gotta do this again? From the Jaylen extension thread... some names may have changed since then.

#504 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Teams that can get significant cap room with no effort:
Knicks -saving for Giannis
Pistons - about to enter year 1 of a long rebuild
Heat -saving for Giannis
Pelicans - cap space gone after they max Ingram
Kings - gone after they paid Hield.
Spurs - gone once DDR opts in
Raptors -saving for Giannis

Teams that can get significant cap room with minimal effort:
Lakers - will be gone with AD’s hold
Timberwolves - false
Bulls - this one is possible but am guessing they
Nuggets - gone once they resign Milsap; even still they only have about 20 due to Murray
Thunder - Nope, not with CP3 and Adams, they cant get much more than 20
Suns - possible
Mavericks - saving for Giannis
Blazers - can only get about 20
Jazz- LOL
Wizards - possible

From there, any one of those teams can be leveraged by an unrestricted free agent to make their way to nearly any of the teams not named above.

So his hope is that the Bulls, Suns or Wizards pay a first to free up 25+. Dont see it, he’s gonna opt in.

I'd bet a grand that he would opt out if not seriously injured.

[Captain_Caveman]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

[MagicBagley18]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

That harsh reality for some I feel is setting in. SWC who knows maybe someone like harden or someone else shakes loose this offseason we shall see.

[reload141]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

You clearly can't see Romeo becoming a top 5 player, it's going to happen.




In the G-League.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

Im with you on the title, FWIW— I just think that one of our few outs is Smart developing into a Kyle Lowry type player and I’d like to get him more burn to see if it gets him there. Trading Hayward accomplishes this.

[djFan71]

They need playmaking to make a playoff push, and a vet presence to run the show. Hayward gives them that is spades.

Gordon, Semi and Boston pick to Minny
Covington, and Bucks Pick to Orlando
Dieng, Gordon to Orlando

If he's healthy and consistent. Which he won't be able to prove he is by Feb 5. And, he just came out and said his foot will be an ongoing issue he has to manage. I just don't see him as having positive value at this deadline, esp with the player option.

We're kinda stuck with hoping he gets healthy and back to where he was in Nov. And if he does, we reap the rewards. But, I don't know why another team would want to assume that risk and send back good players to do so.

Well, it is minimal cost to a team like minny. The upside far outweighs the negative. I mean, they dont take on extra salary, they dont take on more years, and at his current level of play he inproves the team, and his beginning if season level of play he propells them further into the playoffs.

Its a gamble, but for some teams it is far less of one than others, imo.

Technically, they do add almost $7M in salary this year in your deal. And they give up a good player who fits the system their coach (and most others) wants to implement - good shooting, defending wings around big guy. And he's been rumored to be one of the bigger trade targets out there right now. And Dieng has been playing decent for them - Semi's not filling those minutes. So, I'm not sure I agree it's minimal cost. Nor do I think Gordon is the guy to help them leapfrog 5 other teams (granted separated by 5 games) to the playoffs. The 1st rounder helps, and it's not crazy out of balance, but I don't think it's the offer MIN goes for.

[Floody100]

Jrue Holiday would be nice here

[chrisab123]

I can't wait to see a flood of proposals over the next few weeks only to see the same rotation trotted out on March 20th that we have tonight.

[Captain_Caveman]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

Im with you on the title, FWIW— I just think that one of our few outs is Smart developing into a Kyle Lowry type player and I’d like to get him more burn to see if it gets him there. Trading Hayward accomplishes this.

Well, right on. I don't see Hayward being in Smart's way or anyone else's. He's a very versatile player who would be an ideal 3rd/4th man for a lot of teams. Going back a post or two, it would also have been ludicrous for anyone to put Boston on a list of cap room teams a year ago today. And yet, we signed a max free agent a few months later. It is a dynamic landscape, and Hayward is a very useful basketball player. I definitely hope we are able to resign the guy to something like 3/80.

[CeltsfaninDC]

Lets call it a dofference of opinion Cave, I know we could both go on all night but i just dont have it in me lol

I think many are just sad about the recent swoon and maybe beginning to realize that there is no path to a title from here.

But countless examples of teams freeing up large scale cap room out of nowhere. How did we get Kemba, exactly?

You clearly can't see Romeo becoming a top 5 player, it's going to happen.




In the G-League.

ouch

I’m getting a James Young vibe lately. He needs lots of work

[K For Three]

Considering this is a finals ready team I don't see much work that needs to be done.

At least until the next loss happens.

[Fencer reregistered]

If I'm Gordon Hayward here is my mindset with having a player opt at seasons end.....

Pros: Coach Stevens. Great sports town. Competitive team. Cons: 2 of their best players play the same position as me. Have had bad luck since coming to Boston. Cold weather & probably not where I want to settle my kids at school long-term as they grow older.

If I'm Danny Ainge I'm thinking.....
I'd love to win with Hayward here and get him locked into a long-term deal. he's not the problem. But I've learned a valuable lesson with what Al Horford did this past summer going after $$. I can't lose him for nothing..... But I also don't want to screw him because he's a great kid...then again it's a business and I need to do what's best for the team. O, ****...but if I trade him that may not settle well with my prized coach. crap. so how do I improve the roster?
If I trade Smart that would be suicide to the team. I can't trade JT/JB right now those are the young studs I have. I brought Kemba here with the promise of winning.
Alright, fine. I'll make minor trades to bolster the bench and hope my core gets healthy and finds their rhythm heading into the playoffs.

Does Danny use curse words even in his head?