Celtics trade Kemba Walker for Al Horford

[Hal14]

Not just shoot, but to post up as well. Rob is limited to catching lobs and put backs. This trade gave us size. Plus an assurance for Rob, who would probably be injured again, and will be on minutes restriction till the playoffs If Horford plays like 75% of 2018 horford, then this was a good deal.

Thompson was insurance for Rob. But I assume Thompson is getting traded next..

Yeah. I think that Thompson has one foot out the door.

Thompson has to get traded. And Kornet will not be resigned.

1) Horford/Moses Brown/Time Lord is a solid man man trio. We don't need those 3 guys and Thompson - that's overkill. Trade Thompson and improve a different part of the roster - or just clear cap space

2) Thompson can't space the floor with shooting

3) We would save $9 mil in cap space by trading Thompson

4) While Thompson was very good in the playoffs a) that's a very small sample size and b) it's a little concerning that he was so inconsistent (awesome games once every 10 games but most of the time during reg season was average at best) and apparently only gives maximum effort when it's the playoffs, like maybe he played gave maximum effort more times during reg season, we wouldn't have gotten such a low seed and wouldn't have had to face the insanely talented nets in 1st round !

[Jingles]

More than 35 year old Al Horford. About 1.5x the amount of games of Al Horford actually last year.

I'd suggest I'm not the one who isn't trying here. Or at least perhaps you're trying really hard to sell yourself on this.

They shut him down healthy. You know this. Everyone knows this, but you have pretzel logic yourself into a position you can’t get out of

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

[JediMasterRevan]

Don’t get a few of the opinions I’ve read here that Brown, who was undrafted, is equivalent to the 16th pick in a deep draft. The Thunder don’t either - which is why they gave him up. He is certainly NOT a Timelord replacement in any shape or form - though Horford gives us flexibility there.

From what I’ve seen and read about him from
Thunder fans, he’s tall and can rebound but was a pretty terrible player for them. His best is to develop into a situational guy.

Okay deal - I get the rationale but a bit hard to stomach given strength of this draft. Whether it’s worth it will largely depend on what we are able to do with the cap flexibility.

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 than 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

[Jingles]

Horford’s contract ain’t exactly great either and he’s essentially done too. Should have just kept #16. Then again we would have probably blew the puck anyway.


At least have have Anna Horford on Twitter again.

His deal is only $14 mil guaranteed in the final year so actually pretty interesting as salary fodder since the cap/matching value is much higher. Similar to when we Minny happily took Theo Ratliff’s deal knowing it was covered by insurance if he couldn’t play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

So that's great but look at what it means as the whole on the roster.

The #16 pick is a cost controlled asset. But players that aren't are Fournier and Marcus Smart.

Do you think we can resign Fournier and Marcus Smart for less than 14 more than they're getting today? If not then that extra cap room you just made there goes away.

Which I'm not saying is a bad GM move as you want to keep one of those two to trade later, but if your owners would pay a small amount of money you could have kept one of them and the #16 pick while just letting Kemba expire.

Then they can buy a pick in the 20s.

[captain green]

I only like this move if more moves are coming other wise lateral financial move that is meh to me

[celticfan42487]

They shut him down healthy. You know this. Everyone knows this, but you have pretzel logic yourself into a position you can’t get out of

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

If we take out the players in the deal then we're just short one #16 overall pick. Which is also my main concern. We lost assets for the future to trade for a star because we couldn't just sit there and let Kemba expire.

[celticfan42487]

His deal is only $14 mil guaranteed in the final year so actually pretty interesting as salary fodder since the cap/matching value is much higher. Similar to when we Minny happily took Theo Ratliff’s deal knowing it was covered by insurance if he couldn’t play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

So that's great but look at what it means as the whole on the roster.

The #16 pick is a cost controlled asset. But players that aren't are Fournier and Marcus Smart.

Do you think we can resign Fournier and Marcus Smart for less than 14 more than they're getting today? If not then that extra cap room you just made there goes away.

Which I'm not saying is a bad GM move as you want to keep one of those two to trade later, but if your owners would pay a small amount of money you could have kept one of them and the #16 pick while just letting Kemba expire.

Then they can buy a pick in the 20s.

So the big selling point is we traded to get imaginary salary cap room space, just so the owners will spend money to get a pick in the 20s?

Instead of them doing nothing, potentially spending money for one year next season to keep Smart while Kemba expires if we can't trade him as an expiring, for the #16 pick in one of the deeper drafts.

That seems pretty silly to do. It means we just purely made a bad trade then.

Also for the record I'm not blaming Stevens for this, Ainge quit for a reason. And I don't think Stevens did this thinking he made the team better but was just fulfilling the owners demands. We've all been there. His hands are tied and he shouldn't be judged for this.

[jumblin]

They shut him down healthy. You know this. Everyone knows this, but you have pretzel logic yourself into a position you can’t get out of

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

Short of a major change in attitude, Tatum is the next Melo not the next Durant. Players are not going to be flocking to him.

[Homerclease]

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

If we take out the players in the deal then we're just short one #16 overall pick. Which is also my main concern. We lost assets for the future to trade for a star because we couldn't just sit there and let Kemba expire.

Beal is a free agent in 2022 and Tatums best friend. No, they couldn’t just let Kemba expire.

[Homerclease]

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

Short of a major change in attitude, Tatum is the next Melo not the next Durant. Players are not going to be flocking to him.

Durant himself disagrees with you.

[Dangit]

I guess we can be happy Ainge got this mandate and said "nah I'll just quit and not kill my resume thanks". Same with Brad.

Cost cutting moves at the price of a near lottery pick in one of the deepest drafts in a long time.

That's all this is. Oh well we've had to suffer under bad ownership before and it looks like we will for another 10ish years. But at least the coach coming in will know what's up ahead of time with no delusions.

It is what it is.

So dramatic

[bballcool34]

Don’t get a few of the opinions I’ve read here that Brown, who was undrafted, is equivalent to the 16th pick in a deep draft. The Thunder don’t either - which is why they gave him up. He is certainly NOT a Timelord replacement in any shape or form - though Horford gives us flexibility there.

From what I’ve seen and read about him from
Thunder fans, he’s tall and can rebound but was a pretty terrible player for them. His best is to develop into a situational guy.

Okay deal - I get the rationale but a bit hard to stomach given strength of this draft. Whether it’s worth it will largely depend on what we are able to do with the cap flexibility.

Agreed that the ultimate outcome depends on the other shoes dropping, but in terms of the draft, if it’s deep, picks in the 20s can be bought and the talent isn’t a huge drop off if there’s a guy you love. I think the newfound flexibility is easily worth more than the 16th pick given that the team’s future depends on being able to bring in another star to play with Tatum. Right now, that flexibility brings us much closer to that outcome than a middling 1st rounder.

That’s all true.

Isn’t Presti doing this deal partly because he thinks he can rebuild Kemba’s value (he was playing well earlier in the year, after all)?

I’ll be interested to see what he eventually gets for Kemba if that pans out.

[JediMasterRevan]

So brining in sub 30 games a year, 35 year old Horford, who the year prior Philly paid a 1rst just to get off their team, and losing the #16 pick means now we've improved our trade package for a star?

The difference between today and yesterday is the owners avoid luxury tax and the Celtics franchise lost the #16 pick.

Not sure how you can mental gymnastics it to mean we just improved our assets for a star but hey good for you.

What a trash post.

How many games did Kemba play last year?

Horford was averaging 15/7 and had the Thunder hovering at .500 before they shut him down healthy to tank.

You’re a better poster than this when you try.

More than 35 year old Al Horford. About 1.5x the amount of games of Al Horford actually last year.

I'd suggest I'm not the one who isn't trying here. Or at least perhaps you're trying really hard to sell yourself on this.

Horford was told to sit out games. Not health restricted.

This is a great deal

Thompson is now expendible
and knowing how Brad like Kornet, Moses or Timelord might be shopped as well.

Smart/Pritchard
Fournier/Romeo/Edwards
Brown/Nesmith
Tatum/Parker/GrantW
Horford/Moses/Timelord



Need to get 3rd string pg
need to upgrade backup sg
need to upgrade backup sf
need to upgrade backup pf

[jeremym480]

Here's a rough comparison to the 18/19 team (assuming Fournier is re-signed and with no other moves made; which I'm sure there will be other moves but just for fun)

18/19 vs 21/22
PG: Kyrie > Smart - Big downgrade on offense but a big upgrade on d.
SG: Jaylen < Jaylen - Older Allstar Jaylen us much better
SF: Hayward > Fournier - I think Hayward is the better player but I 100% think that Fournier can provide similar production
PF: Tatum < Tatum - Younger Tatum was good but older Tatum is a star
C: Horford > Horford - Older Horford is likely a worse version but should be a nice complimentary player
PG2: Rozier > Pritchard - Rozier is better but maybe PP can take his game up a notch in Year 2
SG2: Smart > Nesmith - Smart easily, we really need Nesmith to step up and be a solid two-way player
SF2: Semi < Langford - Langford has shown some nice flashes. Health is his main concern
PF2: Mook > Grant/Parker - We could use an upgrade here for sure
C2/3: Theis < Rob - Gotta give Rob the nod but we have to stay on the court
C3: Baynes > Thompson/Brown/Kornet - Baynes was perfect for that team. Thompson is likey moved so it's really Brown and Kornet. Brown has some potential but he's not someone we can count on right now. Kornet is what he is.

In conclusion, this is clearly "The Jays" team now and the team will go as they go. While guys like Fournier and Smart can pitch in 20- games ever once in a while, they're not a Kyrie or Kemba who can really pick up the slack if the Jays are off. I like surrounding them in the starting lineup with defense and a scorer we're sorely missing a "microwave" type of player off of the bench and desperately need some of the young-ins to step up. Overall, it should be a fun team to watch but not a title contender... not even a top 3-4 team in the East unless there's another big move or two in the chamber.

[ddb]

obviously Stevens is just getting started this offseason....but just for fun let's look at the way too early depth chart (assuming Fournier is now back)

Smart-Jaylen-Tatum-Horford-Timelord
Pritch-Romeo-Fournier-Nesmith-Tristian
Moses-Grant-Edwards

I mean.....not for nothing but that team is pretty badass... Tough defensively....Yes, they would be relying on Pritch/Romeo/Nesmith maturing and being able to contribute, but I think they will be ready.....That's a pretty interesting squad right there.

[JediMasterRevan]

Sure, literatlly nothing I said can be refuted but go ahead. 35 year old Horford is a better asset than the 16 pick. So is this thrown in Center.

Keep asking quesiton like how many games Kemba played when he put up 20 5 and 4 last year and played in 1.5x the amount of games than Horford.

The best argument anyone has is maybe this allows us to resign Fournier this year or next year or magically a KG will walk through this door as a result.

It is what it is. We sometimes have to lose a lot of talent due to not having a lot of money in the front office and not being a destination MVPs come to in the off seaosn for free like NY, CA, or FL.

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

If we take out the players in the deal then we're just short one #16 overall pick. Which is also my main concern. We lost assets for the future to trade for a star because we couldn't just sit there and let Kemba expire.

First off, wait until everything is done, we may yet end up with a draft pick after all with players most likely on the move.

Second off - Moses for the #16 is a solid, very solid pick. Kid has 2 years NBA experience, is long and tall, has elite skills, knows his role on the floor and is proven. Still only 21 years old.

Third leaves leaves Kemba and a 2nd rounder to get a player who is healthier, fits the team FAR better, and expires sooner with his half salary guarantee next season.

Lastly, This saves boston loads and allows team to resign Fournier

[jumblin]

If Edwards and Waters are still on the roster next season, im officially done.

[Homerclease]

If Edwards and Waters are still on the roster next season, im officially done.

Waters wasn’t even on the roster last season lmao

[JediMasterRevan]

obviously Stevens is just getting started this offseason....but just for fun let's look at the way too early depth chart (assuming Fournier is now back)

Smart-Jaylen-Tatum-Horford-Timelord
Pritch-Romeo-Fournier-Nesmith-Tristian
Moses-Grant-Edwards

I mean.....not for nothing but that team is pretty badass... Tough defensively....Yes, they would be relying on Pritch/Romeo/Nesmith maturing and being able to contribute, but I think they will be ready.....That's a pretty interesting squad right there.

Horford and Timelord wont be on the floor together.
Horford showed that he cannot play PF anymore when he was last in Philly, He is a center.,

Smart/Pritchard
Fournier/Romeo/Edwards
Brown/Nesmith
Tatum/Parker/GrantW
Horford/Thompson/Moses/Timelord

Thompson, Edwards, Parker are all available.
Romeo and Timelord are available for a starter.

IMO

[JHTruth]

Don’t get a few of the opinions I’ve read here that Brown, who was undrafted, is equivalent to the 16th pick in a deep draft. The Thunder don’t either - which is why they gave him up. He is certainly NOT a Timelord replacement in any shape or form - though Horford gives us flexibility there.

From what I’ve seen and read about him from
Thunder fans, he’s tall and can rebound but was a pretty terrible player for them. His best is to develop into a situational guy.

Okay deal - I get the rationale but a bit hard to stomach given strength of this draft. Whether it’s worth it will largely depend on what we are able to do with the cap flexibility.

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade