Celts Can't Pull a Rabbit Out of Their Hat! Loss vs ORL 11/24

[Shak_Celts]

The difference between the Jays is one found ways to contribute while the other kept firing away, hoping to get his groove back.

how so? Tatum had 2 more rbs, 1 less turnover, and 1 more assist than JB. JB had 1 more stl and a block (no blk for tat). tatum was -21 and JB was +1. Both had a bad game and yet one supposedly found ways to contribute. funny.

Brown needed to be better, not only was he missing shots he was taking bad shots. Let's not rewrite history tho.


Again, I have seen the defensive videos, I have seen the game twice... JB wasn't the only one being "lazy" or had poor defensive recognition.

[Fierce1]

The difference between the Jays is one found ways to contribute while the other kept firing away, hoping to get his groove back.

how so? Tatum had 2 more rbs, 1 less turnover, and 1 more assist than JB. JB had 1 more stl and a block (no blk for tat). tatum was -21 and JB was +1. Both had a bad game and yet one supposedly found ways to contribute. funny.

Brown needed to be better, not only was he missing shots he was taking bad shots. Let's not rewrite history tho.


Again, I have seen the defensive videos, I have seen the game twice... JB wasn't the only one being "lazy" or had poor defensive recognition.

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

[Shak_Celts]

The difference between the Jays is one found ways to contribute while the other kept firing away, hoping to get his groove back.

how so? Tatum had 2 more rbs, 1 less turnover, and 1 more assist than JB. JB had 1 more stl and a block (no blk for tat). tatum was -21 and JB was +1. Both had a bad game and yet one supposedly found ways to contribute. funny.

Brown needed to be better, not only was he missing shots he was taking bad shots. Let's not rewrite history tho.


Again, I have seen the defensive videos, I have seen the game twice... JB wasn't the only one being "lazy" or had poor defensive recognition.

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

[Fierce1]

how so? Tatum had 2 more rbs, 1 less turnover, and 1 more assist than JB. JB had 1 more stl and a block (no blk for tat). tatum was -21 and JB was +1. Both had a bad game and yet one supposedly found ways to contribute. funny.

Brown needed to be better, not only was he missing shots he was taking bad shots. Let's not rewrite history tho.


Again, I have seen the defensive videos, I have seen the game twice... JB wasn't the only one being "lazy" or had poor defensive recognition.

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

It's not pissing on Brown.

I give credit where credit is due.

But in this game, JB was just forcing it after going 4 out of 5.

One example is he tried attacking 3 defenders and he ended up losing the ball.

There's already 3 defenders around, someone is open!

[Triple7]

how so? Tatum had 2 more rbs, 1 less turnover, and 1 more assist than JB. JB had 1 more stl and a block (no blk for tat). tatum was -21 and JB was +1. Both had a bad game and yet one supposedly found ways to contribute. funny.

Brown needed to be better, not only was he missing shots he was taking bad shots. Let's not rewrite history tho.


Again, I have seen the defensive videos, I have seen the game twice... JB wasn't the only one being "lazy" or had poor defensive recognition.

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

I agree. The game where JT can’t hit **** from 3 going 1/11. He knows he doesn’t have it, but still kept on chucking it non stop. He also was lazy on D that game with zero free throw attempts. JT is great if not forcing shots from 3, and also trying to take it to the rack, but he doesn’t do that every game as well.

[Shak_Celts]

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

It's not pissing on Brown.

I give credit where credit is due.

But in this game, JB was just forcing it after going 4 out of 5.

One example is he tried attacking 3 defenders and he ended up losing the ball.

There's already 3 defenders around, someone is open!

again, we established that, I'm just wondering what tatum did that was far over what jb did. I can say they were both bad but a lot of people just act like jb was so much worse than tatum.

it's not about giving credit. we aren't disagreeing on how bad he was, I'm disagreeing that tatum went out of his way to do more things to impact the game than jb did.

[Fierce1]

But against the Magic, JT only attempted 3 3-pointers.

He had 13 FT attempts.

Very clear JT made a concerted effort to get to the FT line.

[Shak_Celts]

What I mean is when JT was missing shots, he went inside fishing for fouls and it worked as he got 13 FT attempts.

He also passed to open teammates.
It's just unfortunate that the shots didn't fall, otherwise JT's assist numbers would've been higher.

The point is JT tried other things.

JB just kept firing away.

He started the game 4 out of 5, that means JB went 2 out of 17 the rest of the way.

Even in transition JB wouldn't pass the ball.

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

I agree. The game where JT can’t hit **** from 3 going 1/11. He knows he doesn’t have it, but still kept on chucking it non stop. He also was lazy on D that game with zero free throw attempts. JT is great if not forcing shots from 3, and also trying to take it to the rack, but he doesn’t do that every game as well.

I'm talking about this game. JT was also bad, he wasn't going the extra mile over JB. Two stinkers in the same game.

I don't care about other games, JT is a superstar, JB isn't on his level. that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

[Fierce1]

tatum's 3 assists came in the first quarter IIRC. maybe his potential assists were far greater or something, I dunno. tatum always draws more fouls, that's what he does as the superstar.

neither of us are disagreeing that jb shot like crap and kept chucking, but tatum wasn't out there doing more than jb as if he was trying to go the extra mile and jb wasn't. all this is just to piss on brown (rightfully) and not on Jt also playing poorly.

It's not pissing on Brown.

I give credit where credit is due.

But in this game, JB was just forcing it after going 4 out of 5.

One example is he tried attacking 3 defenders and he ended up losing the ball.

There's already 3 defenders around, someone is open!

again, we established that, I'm just wondering what tatum did that was far over what jb did. I can say they were both bad but a lot of people just act like jb was so much worse than tatum.

it's not about giving credit. we aren't disagreeing on how bad he was, I'm disagreeing that tatum went out of his way to do more things to impact the game than jb did.

One evidence of JT not forcing the issue or trying other things is him playing 39 minutes but only attempting 16 shots.

It was clear when JT was not making 3s, he stopped shooting 3s and started posting up more.
That's why he ended up with 13 FT attempts.

What I also saw was when JT was doubled, he didn't hesitate to pass to the open man.
It's just unfortunate that most of the shots didn't go in.

JB from start to finish didn't try to alter his game.

The point is JT adjusted while JB didn't.

[Shak_Celts]

But against the Magic, JT only attempted 3 3-pointers.

He had 13 FT attempts.

Very clear JT made a concerted effort to get to the FT line.

he always gets to the line (more), but you're right, he nearly doubled JB's ft attempts. in every other category, he barely beat JB but if that means he went out of his way to do more for you, okay, you win.

[Shak_Celts]

It's not pissing on Brown.

I give credit where credit is due.

But in this game, JB was just forcing it after going 4 out of 5.

One example is he tried attacking 3 defenders and he ended up losing the ball.

There's already 3 defenders around, someone is open!

again, we established that, I'm just wondering what tatum did that was far over what jb did. I can say they were both bad but a lot of people just act like jb was so much worse than tatum.

it's not about giving credit. we aren't disagreeing on how bad he was, I'm disagreeing that tatum went out of his way to do more things to impact the game than jb did.

One evidence of JT not forcing the issue or trying other things is him playing 39 minutes but only attempting 16 shots.

It was clear when JT was not making 3s, he stopped shooting 3s and started posting up more.
That's why he ended up with 13 FT attempts.

What I also saw was when JT was doubled, he didn't hesitate to pass to the open man.
It's just unfortunate that most of the shots didn't go in.

JB from start to finish didn't try to alter his game.

The point is JT adjusted while JB didn't.

still saying things he naturally does, he wasn't veering. he took less shots is really all you have (no regard for the defense). Do you know who went out of their way from their norm? white, he took 12fts.

[Fierce1]

again, we established that, I'm just wondering what tatum did that was far over what jb did. I can say they were both bad but a lot of people just act like jb was so much worse than tatum.

it's not about giving credit. we aren't disagreeing on how bad he was, I'm disagreeing that tatum went out of his way to do more things to impact the game than jb did.

One evidence of JT not forcing the issue or trying other things is him playing 39 minutes but only attempting 16 shots.

It was clear when JT was not making 3s, he stopped shooting 3s and started posting up more.
That's why he ended up with 13 FT attempts.

What I also saw was when JT was doubled, he didn't hesitate to pass to the open man.
It's just unfortunate that most of the shots didn't go in.

JB from start to finish didn't try to alter his game.

The point is JT adjusted while JB didn't.

still saying things he naturally does, he wasn't veering. he took less shots is really all you have (no regard for the defense). Do you know who went out of their way from their norm? white, he took 12fts.

No argument from me on the defensive end.

That's more evidence that JB just kept chucking.

I mean if White can get 12 FTs then why not JB, right?

Reason why is JB didn't adjust.
When his shots were not falling, he still kept jacking up shots.

What's worse is when he was surrounded by multiple defenders, he refused to pass the ball.

And in transition, he kept the ball to himself, refusing to pass to another teammate running the break.

[Shak_Celts]

One evidence of JT not forcing the issue or trying other things is him playing 39 minutes but only attempting 16 shots.

It was clear when JT was not making 3s, he stopped shooting 3s and started posting up more.
That's why he ended up with 13 FT attempts.

What I also saw was when JT was doubled, he didn't hesitate to pass to the open man.
It's just unfortunate that most of the shots didn't go in.

JB from start to finish didn't try to alter his game.

The point is JT adjusted while JB didn't.

still saying things he naturally does, he wasn't veering. he took less shots is really all you have (no regard for the defense). Do you know who went out of their way from their norm? white, he took 12fts.

No argument from me on the defensive end.

That's more evidence that JB just kept chucking.

I mean if White can get 12 FTs then why not JB, right?

Reason why is JB didn't adjust.
When his shots were not falling, he still kept jacking up shots.

What's worse is when he was surrounded by multiple defenders, he refused to pass the ball.

And in transition, he kept the ball to himself, refusing to pass to another teammate running the break.

people didn't connect on his passes either. he didn't take this game to refuse to pass on the break, he always does that.

you seem to think I'm saying brown didn't play terribly, I'm saying he did but so did Tatum. tat wasn't out there trying to play differently because his shot wasn't falling.

I'm not arguing with you about white, he certainly went right when it was going left. I just don't think tatum did in the way you portray it.

took less shots? absolutely. was it because he changed up? I dunno, I saw good magic defense.

Honestly, we aren't changing each other's mind, you think tat did more things instead of just shooting and I don't agree, we'll leave it at that. They were both bad and brown shot so much worse.

[tfmiii]

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[tfmiii]

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[BK_2020]

This 'Greenie' person really seems to have the worst takes in the world, worse than even the worst posters on RGM. Net rating in a one game sample, really?

[Triple7]

still saying things he naturally does, he wasn't veering. he took less shots is really all you have (no regard for the defense). Do you know who went out of their way from their norm? white, he took 12fts.

No argument from me on the defensive end.

That's more evidence that JB just kept chucking.

I mean if White can get 12 FTs then why not JB, right?

Reason why is JB didn't adjust.
When his shots were not falling, he still kept jacking up shots.

What's worse is when he was surrounded by multiple defenders, he refused to pass the ball.

And in transition, he kept the ball to himself, refusing to pass to another teammate running the break.

people didn't connect on his passes either. he didn't take this game to refuse to pass on the break, he always does that.

you seem to think I'm saying brown didn't play terribly, I'm saying he did but so did Tatum. tat wasn't out there trying to play differently because his shot wasn't falling.

I'm not arguing with you about white, he certainly went right when it was going left. I just don't think tatum did in the way you portray it.

took less shots? absolutely. was it because he changed up? I dunno, I saw good magic defense.

Honestly, we aren't changing each other's mind, you think tat did more things instead of just shooting and I don't agree, we'll leave it at that. They were both bad and brown shot so much worse.

I agree they both played bad. Tatum hadn’t had a great game since the sixers game when brown was out. I think it just shows even more how those guys really doesn’t fit that well. Anyways, i think Tatum gets more of the blame for this team, being the superstar of this team, and the supposedly “leader” of this group. Everything should start with him. If he constantly chuck 3’s despite not having it, then it shows a lot of what he really wants to achieve this season. Big diff from this season and last years, is he tries to mix it up this year by attacking the rim, and posting up. Wish he do that a lot more, than chuck 3’s.

[Fierce1]

Let's not forget JT only attempted 3 times from 3pt land against Orlando.

[lon3lytoaster]

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This x100. Yes, JB was awful but JT disappeared after the 1st Q as well. I thought he got involved and asserted himself early with a few post ups as opposed to trying to ease himself into the game like usual but it was almost as soon as Isaac checked him he just said F that, took his ball and went home.

Credit where credit is due to Orlando, but they tightened up on JT and got handsy and he wanted no part of it on the perimeter.

[GoCeltics123]

The idea that Tatum was passive is again just deranged reconstruction of fans. Other than a couple of plays which were clearly designed for Tatum to be a decoy, and transitions for other players or plays where Jaylen just took it upon himself to be the offense, Tatum was at the center of halfcourt creation in the 4th. He was essentially either shooting or making the last or the second to last pass in a shooting chain in 50% of all possessions, and something like 11 of 14 halfcourt possessions. You'd be hard pressed to see Harden or Lebron or Luka have that much offensive load.

Here's the breakdown of offensive possessions in the 4th.

1st - Tatum drives into the middle and passes to cutting Brissett for freethrows.
2nd - Play obviously designed for non-Tatum players. Tatum stands in the wings while the rest of the team goes 4 on 4.
3rd - Play obviously designed for non-Tatum players.
4th - Tatum backs down #2 but sees Horford with a mismatch. Horford posts up Ingles but travels.
5th - Jaylen goes coast to coast, 1-2 from the line.
6th - Jaylen airballs a midrange.
7th - Tatum hits trailing Horford in semi-transition who passes to Hauser in the corner for a 3.
8th - Tatum sees Hauser wide open in the corner before he even crosses the half court line. Miss.
9th - Tatum wide open pull up three. Miss.
10th - Tatum drives baseline against Franz for 2 freethrows.
11th - Tatum drives middle for a layup.
12th - White pnr, 2 freethrows
13th - Jaylen the first player to touch the ball cross the half court line, takes an ill-advised pull up three
14th - Jaylen misses a layup in transition
15th - White misses a layup in semi-transition
16th - Tatum posts up and drives baseline against Franz for a layup.
17th - White transition layup, gets 2 free throws.
18th - White drives and kicks out to Jaylen, miss.
19th - Tatum 2 free throws in transition.
20th - Tatum drives against Franz, 2 fee throws.
21st - Tatum against JI. Fakes him out and draws a foul. Free throws.
22nd - Jaylen the only player to touch the ball. Drives and throws up a runner that bricks.
23rd - Magic slow to get back. White semi-transition layup. Gets free throws.
Game over.

How do you know this? Lmao this is major cope

End of the day, when you don't shoot at all and your teammates on the court are Hauser, PP, Horford and Oshae, you're failing at your job unless you're getting double-teamed every time. He wasn't.

Jaylen's awful shooting is hurtig the offense a lot, but acting like Tatum's passiveness is not an issue is laughable at this point