Hayward Undecided

[Captain_Caveman]

Are sign and trades still a thing? I think a sign-and-trade could be a good possibility to get Hayward the max if he informs the Jazz he's leaving. Might as well clear some roster-crunch before teams know we have to make a trade.

Something like Rozier and Crowder for Hayward and Lyles

S&Ts can still happen, but there is no real benefit anymore for the player. Players can now only make as much in a S&T as they could if they signed with a team outright. In addition, the acquiring team becomes hard capped. So, while they are still a thing, they have largely fallen out of use over the past few years.

Would allow us to keep Kelly and a full MLE, likely while staying under the hard cap. Or potentially allow us to retain enough assets for a Griffin sign-and-trade after landing Hayward.

[bucknersrevenge]

Are sign and trades still a thing? I think a sign-and-trade could be a good possibility to get Hayward the max if he informs the Jazz he's leaving. Might as well clear some roster-crunch before teams know we have to make a trade.

Something like Rozier and Crowder for Hayward and Lyles

S&Ts can still happen, but there is no real benefit anymore for the player. Players can now only make as much in a S&T as they could if they signed with a team outright. In addition, the acquiring team becomes hard capped. So, while they are still a thing, they have largely fallen out of use over the past few years.

Would allow us to keep Kelly and a full MLE, likely while staying under the hard cap. Or potentially allow us to retain enough assets for a Griffin sign-and-trade after landing Hayward.

MLE good, but keeping Kelly is not my main concern.

[Captain_Caveman]

S&Ts can still happen, but there is no real benefit anymore for the player. Players can now only make as much in a S&T as they could if they signed with a team outright. In addition, the acquiring team becomes hard capped. So, while they are still a thing, they have largely fallen out of use over the past few years.

Would allow us to keep Kelly and a full MLE, likely while staying under the hard cap. Or potentially allow us to retain enough assets for a Griffin sign-and-trade after landing Hayward.

MLE good, but keeping Kelly is not my main concern.

There's going to be a little blood loss just to free up the cap for Hayward. Instead of just dumping guys like Rozier and Yabu to do that, we could potentially just route them to Utah and end up gaining from it.

[bucknersrevenge]

Would allow us to keep Kelly and a full MLE, likely while staying under the hard cap. Or potentially allow us to retain enough assets for a Griffin sign-and-trade after landing Hayward.

MLE good, but keeping Kelly is not my main concern.

There's going to be a little blood loss just to free up the cap for Hayward. Instead of just dumping guys like Rozier and Yabu to do that, we could potentially just route them to Utah and end up gaining from it.

That I definitely have no problem with. Not to hijack the thread, but can we also do that with Griffin? Say Doc wanted AB and Jae maybe? Of course, assuming Blake would agree to come.

[Slartibartfast]

We will find out in a few months but I always thought Celtics interest in Hayward is a diversion. I always thought Blake Griffin is the real target. My 2 cents

Agree. It just makes so much more sense to add Griffin instead of Hayward, especially if we intend to keep Fultz. Griffin has already been linked to Celtics and Ainge during trade deadlines. Not saying that Ainge will not try to get Hayward but i think Griffin will be his primary target.

Ainge already told that we need a skilled big, who can rebound and shoot. I believe it was also recently mentioned on CSSNE that Celtics are focused on landing all-star big.

Griffin anyone?

Blake is clearly a better fit and bigger need. but those injuries... and age... i was on the blake train until the latest injury, dude just can't stay healthy.

I think Blake's going to look more and more like Toine as he ages. Pounding post-ups to nowhere, too many 3s, too little D.

[bucknersrevenge]

Still not sure I trust Blake to say healthy which is why Hayward is my first choice. But if he could, absolutely tailor-made to fit into our offense. He can score and facilitate at any level. Him and Horford together would be perfect. Stevens would have a field day utilizing his skillset.

[Captain_Caveman]

MLE good, but keeping Kelly is not my main concern.

There's going to be a little blood loss just to free up the cap for Hayward. Instead of just dumping guys like Rozier and Yabu to do that, we could potentially just route them to Utah and end up gaining from it.

That I definitely have no problem with. Not to hijack the thread, but can we also do that with Griffin? Say Doc wanted AB and Jae maybe? Of course, assuming Blake would agree to come.

The part that I am intrigued by, and which a potential hard cap definitely presents challenges for, is doing sign-and-trades for both Hayward and Griffin, should they choose to want to play for us. I don't believe that Kelly can be utilized here due to being a restricted free agent, but a Hayward sign-and-trade would allow us to keep rights to Amir, Jerebko and Zeller (whose contract is non-guaranteed). Believe that they can all receive Keith Bogans type of contracts of 3 years where only the first year is guaranteed (unless the new CBA closed this loophole, which I have not read). We'd be limited in the amount of raises each could get, but that would greatly facilitate landing Griffin *after* Hayward is potentially signed.

We could conceivably get to the $25m or we'd need for each this way:

1. Zeller/Jerebko/Crowder/Yabu for Hayward.

2. Amir/Bradley/Clippers pick for Griffin.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

[bucknersrevenge]

There's going to be a little blood loss just to free up the cap for Hayward. Instead of just dumping guys like Rozier and Yabu to do that, we could potentially just route them to Utah and end up gaining from it.

That I definitely have no problem with. Not to hijack the thread, but can we also do that with Griffin? Say Doc wanted AB and Jae maybe? Of course, assuming Blake would agree to come.

The part that I am intrigued by, and which a potential hard cap definitely presents challenges for, is doing sign-and-trades for both Hayward and Griffin, should the choose to want to play for us. I don't believe that Kelly can be utilized here due to being a restricted free agent, but a Hayward sign-and-trade would allow us to keep rights to Amir, Jerebko and Zeller (whose contract is non-guaranteed). Believe that they can all receive Keith Bogans type of contracts of 3 years where only the first year is guaranteed (unless the new CBA closed this loophole, which I have not read). We'd be limited in the amount of raises each could get, but that would greatly facilitate landing Griffin *after* Hayward is potentially signed.

We could conceivably get to the $25m or we'd need for each this way:

1. Zeller/Jerebko/Crowder/Yabu for Hayward.

2. Amir/Bradley/Clippers pick for Griffin.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

Jesus where do I sign? Any deal that allows us to come away with Hayward AND Griffin...but couldn't Doc just not agree to the del and justbosh the whole thing? Wouldn't we need to have enough money to sign him outright?

[claycarver]

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

And then drop Porter into the mix at power forward next year.

[Captain_Caveman]

That I definitely have no problem with. Not to hijack the thread, but can we also do that with Griffin? Say Doc wanted AB and Jae maybe? Of course, assuming Blake would agree to come.

The part that I am intrigued by, and which a potential hard cap definitely presents challenges for, is doing sign-and-trades for both Hayward and Griffin, should the choose to want to play for us. I don't believe that Kelly can be utilized here due to being a restricted free agent, but a Hayward sign-and-trade would allow us to keep rights to Amir, Jerebko and Zeller (whose contract is non-guaranteed). Believe that they can all receive Keith Bogans type of contracts of 3 years where only the first year is guaranteed (unless the new CBA closed this loophole, which I have not read). We'd be limited in the amount of raises each could get, but that would greatly facilitate landing Griffin *after* Hayward is potentially signed.

We could conceivably get to the $25m or we'd need for each this way:

1. Zeller/Jerebko/Crowder/Yabu for Hayward.

2. Amir/Bradley/Clippers pick for Griffin.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

Jesus where do I sign? Any deal that allows us to come away with Hayward AND Griffin...but couldn't Doc just not agree to the del and justbosh the whole thing? Wouldn't we need to have enough money to sign him outright?

One or both teams could say no, as could Hayward and Griffin themselves.

But there are very strong leverage points there on the Jazz and Clippers, should those guys help force the issue (which Hayward can do just by threatening to sign with us outright, and Griffin could do by threatening to sign with a 3rd team if no sign-and-trade to Boston). We'd just need to beat out the alternatives of (a) them losing those guys for nothing in return, and (b) whatever other options would be available to them at that point. I don't think the Clippers would have cap room regardless, unless both Paul and Griffin both walk away. So taking on Amir, who is fairly functional at a lower price, is not such a high cost if they got enough sugar. Jazz also not looking at having major cap room even if Hayward leaves.

These trade could take on other forms, with more picks included for the other teams in question. Just an intriguing hypothetical.

[Curmudgeon]

If Hayward waffles, tell him to pound sand and put a fat offer sheet in front of Otto Porter. Make the Wizards cripple their cap to match.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If Hayward waffles, tell him to pound sand and put a fat offer sheet in front of Otto Porter. Make the Wizards cripple their cap to match.

That's a nice bluff, but it would be a stupid use of money by us.

[tfmiii]

The part that I am intrigued by, and which a potential hard cap definitely presents challenges for, is doing sign-and-trades for both Hayward and Griffin, should the choose to want to play for us. I don't believe that Kelly can be utilized here due to being a restricted free agent, but a Hayward sign-and-trade would allow us to keep rights to Amir, Jerebko and Zeller (whose contract is non-guaranteed). Believe that they can all receive Keith Bogans type of contracts of 3 years where only the first year is guaranteed (unless the new CBA closed this loophole, which I have not read). We'd be limited in the amount of raises each could get, but that would greatly facilitate landing Griffin *after* Hayward is potentially signed.

We could conceivably get to the $25m or we'd need for each this way:

1. Zeller/Jerebko/Crowder/Yabu for Hayward.

2. Amir/Bradley/Clippers pick for Griffin.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

Jesus where do I sign? Any deal that allows us to come away with Hayward AND Griffin...but couldn't Doc just not agree to the del and justbosh the whole thing? Wouldn't we need to have enough money to sign him outright?

One or both teams could say no, as could Hayward and Griffin themselves.

But there are very strong leverage points there on the Jazz and Clippers, should those guys help force the issue (which Hayward can do just by threatening to sign with us outright, and Griffin could do by threatening to sign with a 3rd team if no sign-and-trade to Boston). We'd just need to beat out the alternatives of (a) them losing those guys for nothing in return, and (b) whatever other options would be available to them at that point. I don't think the Clippers would have cap room regardless, unless both Paul and Griffin both walk away. So taking on Amir, who is fairly functional at a lower price, is not such a high cost if they got enough sugar. Jazz also not looking at having major cap room even if Hayward leaves.

These trade could take on other forms, with more picks included for the other teams in question. Just an intriguing hypothetical.

Agreed on so many levels,

got to think wth this the last likely bite at the max-FA apple that Danny would be seeking to maximize the leverage built up around the league's players, what better way than (once again) proposing a superfriends team,

Durant derailed is last year but who is to say what Blake (always the scapegoat on CP3's Clips) and Hayward (overlooked in Utah) may feel?

Who are their agents? Do they have the connections to grease the skids? Because it won't happen without them applying leverage

[Captain_Caveman]

If Hayward waffles, tell him to pound sand and put a fat offer sheet in front of Otto Porter. Make the Wizards cripple their cap to match.

Wiz likely going to have to match a max offer sheet on Porter. He's only just turning 24 in a week. Bojan Bogdanovic is a bigger question. I think they have to match him if they can, and that Gortat would be the odd man out if it is all too much money. He's 33yo and they have Manhinmi.

[zronv7]

We should go after Griffin, not Hayward. Griffin fills a bigger hole and will be replacing freaking Johnson. We already have Crowder who obviously isn't as good as Hayward but gets the job done and plays defense while we have a young prospect in Brown who will end up becoming a starter and who knows maybe even an all star. Signing Hayward is basically blocking Brown's development and giving up on him and we'll still have a huge hole to fill at the 4, a lose lose .

Thomas
Bradley
Crowder
Griffin
Horford

Bench
Smart
Fultz
Brown
Ziz
Olynyk

[Captain_Caveman]

Jesus where do I sign? Any deal that allows us to come away with Hayward AND Griffin...but couldn't Doc just not agree to the del and justbosh the whole thing? Wouldn't we need to have enough money to sign him outright?

One or both teams could say no, as could Hayward and Griffin themselves.

But there are very strong leverage points there on the Jazz and Clippers, should those guys help force the issue (which Hayward can do just by threatening to sign with us outright, and Griffin could do by threatening to sign with a 3rd team if no sign-and-trade to Boston). We'd just need to beat out the alternatives of (a) them losing those guys for nothing in return, and (b) whatever other options would be available to them at that point. I don't think the Clippers would have cap room regardless, unless both Paul and Griffin both walk away. So taking on Amir, who is fairly functional at a lower price, is not such a high cost if they got enough sugar. Jazz also not looking at having major cap room even if Hayward leaves.

These trade could take on other forms, with more picks included for the other teams in question. Just an intriguing hypothetical.

Agreed on so many levels,

got to think wth this the last likely bite at the max-FA apple that Danny would be seeking to maximize the leverage built up around the league's players, what better way than (once again) proposing a superfriends team,

Durant derailed is last year but who is to say what Blake (always the scapegoat on CP3's Clips) and Hayward (overlooked in Utah) may feel?

Who are their agents? Do they have the connections to grease the skids? Because it won't happen without them applying leverage

I think they have been working backchannel on both of these guys for quite some time now. There will likely be a temporal dynamic here. Hayward will come or not, and hopefully decide quickly. Griffin potentially could be on ice until Chris Paul's status is known. Let's say by July 4th, Hayward has agreed in principle to sign with Boston, and Paul has left for the Spurs. We can work on turning Hayward's deal into a sign-and-trade at the same time we chase Griffin and get him to put the gun in Doc's mouth (aka "Trade me to Boston or I sign with the Heat/Mavs/Bulls).

Even if Paul stays and Blake wants to resign, is Doc content to bring the band back together?

It's unlikely on the whole, but could happen if things go our way.

[VeryMuchWoke]

If Hayward waffles, tell him to pound sand and put a fat offer sheet in front of Otto Porter. Make the Wizards cripple their cap to match.

Wiz likely going to have to match a max offer sheet on Porter. He's only just turning 24 in a week. Bojan Bogdanovic is a bigger question. I think they have to match him if they can, and that Gortat would be the odd man out if it is all too much money. He's 33yo and they have Manhinmi.

Lol. The Wiz are screwed.

[Andrew McCeltic]

There's going to be a little blood loss just to free up the cap for Hayward. Instead of just dumping guys like Rozier and Yabu to do that, we could potentially just route them to Utah and end up gaining from it.

That I definitely have no problem with. Not to hijack the thread, but can we also do that with Griffin? Say Doc wanted AB and Jae maybe? Of course, assuming Blake would agree to come.

The part that I am intrigued by, and which a potential hard cap definitely presents challenges for, is doing sign-and-trades for both Hayward and Griffin, should they choose to want to play for us. I don't believe that Kelly can be utilized here due to being a restricted free agent, but a Hayward sign-and-trade would allow us to keep rights to Amir, Jerebko and Zeller (whose contract is non-guaranteed). Believe that they can all receive Keith Bogans type of contracts of 3 years where only the first year is guaranteed (unless the new CBA closed this loophole, which I have not read). We'd be limited in the amount of raises each could get, but that would greatly facilitate landing Griffin *after* Hayward is potentially signed.

We could conceivably get to the $25m or we'd need for each this way:

1. Zeller/Jerebko/Crowder/Yabu for Hayward.

2. Amir/Bradley/Clippers pick for Griffin.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Rozier
Hayward/Jaylen
Griffin/Nader
Horford/Zizic

A Hayward sign and trade would be huge, esp. because we could also use Amir etc. to match for someone other than Blake.

There's Drummond, too, who's so young - IT/Rozier, Smart/Fultz, Hayward/Jaylen, Horford/Nader/37, Drummond/Zizic.

Two primary scorers, second tier of offense including guys with capacity to become primary, dominant on the boards, Drummond beasting in the pick and roll, the only weak link is what Andre/Ante bring on offense. Plus one more BKN pick, you're either getting another blue chip guy or packaging it for an upgrade.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If Hayward waffles, tell him to pound sand and put a fat offer sheet in front of Otto Porter. Make the Wizards cripple their cap to match.

Wiz likely going to have to match a max offer sheet on Porter. He's only just turning 24 in a week. Bojan Bogdanovic is a bigger question. I think they have to match him if they can, and that Gortat would be the odd man out if it is all too much money. He's 33yo and they have Manhinmi.

Lol. The Wiz are screwed.

They can get out from that. As long as Porter wasn't a contract year fluke, they're fine. Not great, but Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre, all young, & working the margins with first-rounders, swapping bad money bigs when they can.. Maybe they do Mahinmi for Kanter, or Brook Lopez, Gortat for Deng, whatever. Not ideal, but if the personalities stay satisfied, they've got a couple years to mess around. One or two lucky breaks away, with everyone young, paid, and getting into the playoffs isn't the worst thing to be in the NBA.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Are sign and trades still a thing? I think a sign-and-trade could be a good possibility to get Hayward the max if he informs the Jazz he's leaving. Might as well clear some roster-crunch before teams know we have to make a trade.

Something like Rozier and Crowder for Hayward and Lyles

S&Ts can still happen, but there is no real benefit anymore for the player. Players can now only make as much in a S&T as they could if they signed with a team outright. In addition, the acquiring team becomes hard capped. So, while they are still a thing, they have largely fallen out of use over the past few years.

Would allow us to keep Kelly and a full MLE, likely while staying under the hard cap. Or potentially allow us to retain enough assets for a Griffin sign-and-trade after landing Hayward.

Yeah, the benefit for Hayward is that he joins a better team than he otherwise would; the benefit for Utah is that they don't lose him for nothing and maintain goodwill with agents, etc.

Not sure Utah's cap, but stealth scenario is letting Hayward and Hill walk and nabbing someone like Kyle Lowry. Lowry, Exum, Burks, Hood, Lyles, Favors, Gobert, instead of sinking 60 million into George and Gordon, eh.