Celtics General Offseason Thread, 2019 – Welcome to the Party, #2

[Roddy]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

This.

Just like Smart, something between 10 an $15M would make them assets for a future trade.

[jfs1000d]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

Fair point here. I like morris btw. Peole just don’t like him because he takes shots away from Tatum/brown/hayward.

He is a good player.

The key is horford. We renounce Kyrie June 30 6 pm. If Horford opts our, agree to three year $60 mil deal.

If Rozier and Morris go, we have 15-20 mil in cap open? I would go after a PG and a PF.

If Horford opts in at $31 million, I really have to consider trading him.


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[Celts17Pride]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

Fair point here. I like morris btw. Peole just don’t like him because he takes shots away from Tatum/brown/hayward.

He is a good player.

The key is horford. We renounce Kyrie June 30 6 pm. If Horford opts our, agree to three year $60 mil deal.

If Rozier and Morris go, we have 15-20 mil in cap open? I would go after a PG and a PF.

If Horford opts in at $31 million, I really have to consider trading him.


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Celtics have no cap space if Rozier and Morris leave and Horford stays. That's the whole point of why the Celtics should resign both Rozier and Morris if they can.

[Tiny ball]

Let’s get Al 3 years, $20 million.

I want him in the team.

Rozier?

Rozier, I just don’t think he is good enough. I see elite talent, but no consistency. I know brad and Danny love him though.

Big issue is we have essentially have three small forwards, a point center and smart.

Could be very good, could be very bad.

Can Brown/Hayward/Tatum play together. If they can, love the offensive ability.

Smart
brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford

Sixth starter is Baynes.


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"elite talent" I might have missed one or two games since Rozier has been a Celtic. I have never seen this "elite talent"? I think he had nice little run two years ago for some games. I see below average back up combo guard. No way worth what even smart is getting. Should have been traded last year. Imho

Rozier has elite speed and can get his shot off. He just isn’t a good enough shooter or finisher. But he shows flashes where he looks like an all-star. Look at last year’s playoff run. Look at games when he had the games in his hand as a starter.

I am not a fan. But don’t discount the flashes of brilliance you see. It makes you pause before you write him off.


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I have seen the flashes. I just was not impressed. If we must keep him Hope he proves me wrong. I truly don't want to watch him again in Celtics uniform. I'm a fan of good point guards it you can't get 10 assists or close to it near nightly plus toss in 20 points or close as a starting point guard I just think bench. I grew up watching the great point guard Tiny Archibald. Plus of course many many other great point guards over the years. To me Rozier is a hack. I would have traded him last year.

[mwhis21]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

Fair point here. I like morris btw. Peole just don’t like him because he takes shots away from Tatum/brown/hayward.

He is a good player.

The key is horford. We renounce Kyrie June 30 6 pm. If Horford opts our, agree to three year $60 mil deal.

If Rozier and Morris go, we have 15-20 mil in cap open? I would go after a PG and a PF.

If Horford opts in at $31 million, I really have to consider trading him.

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I'd love to hear from a cap expert here: The NBA Salary Cap is expected to have a couple of large jumps the next two years right? Not as much as 2016 but still pretty big.

Tatum will likely get MAXED. Brown I think depends on how this year goes for him.

Are the C's looking to not bring on much much more salary beyond next year when Hayward is off the books?

[Triple7]

I want there to be a trade to bring star player/ difference maker but I just don't see it at this point. We need to bring the young players back and increase their trade value. This includes Rozier. We shouldn't trade when their value is low, let them bounce back so they are valuable assets. If Hayward comes back as the old Hayward then we can trade him at the deadline for a decent package. That's why I don't see much happening right now.

Rozier would want to get paid, so a big NO to him. The guy has no playmaking skills and below average shooting for a pg.

He could want a big contract all he wants doesn't mean he'll get it. 4/50 may get it done. Not a big risk with that contract.

That’s too big money for a pg with limited skills. I really want him gone actually, unless we get him really cheap.
7-8M max for 3 years.

[Triple7]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

Fair point here. I like morris btw. Peole just don’t like him because he takes shots away from Tatum/brown/hayward.

He is a good player.

The key is horford. We renounce Kyrie June 30 6 pm. If Horford opts our, agree to three year $60 mil deal.

If Rozier and Morris go, we have 15-20 mil in cap open? I would go after a PG and a PF.

If Horford opts in at $31 million, I really have to consider trading him.


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Celtics have no cap space if Rozier and Morris leave and Horford stays. That's the whole point of why the Celtics should resign both Rozier and Morris if they can.

Im fine with Morris. Let’s get rid of Rozier while we can.

[Darth Celtic]

Would anyone have any qualms about a deal with Hayward & draft pick(s) for Conley? It seems like a "kill two birds with one stone" type of deal. We still have too many wing players & lack a true starting PG.

I would consider making that deal & still match any reasonable offer for Rozier. This time with the intention of flipping him later in the year or next offseason. Aside from Kyrie, it is really unlike Ainge to lose an asset for nothing. Then I would re-sign Morris, as he will have a more clear cut role for him as well.

Conley / Rozier (or vet PG)
Brown / Smart
Tatum
Horford / Morris
Baynes / Williams

That's a better version of the team we had two seasons ago & it doesn't cripple us from a cap or future draft pick standpoint. I think the P&R game between Conley & Horford could be fantastic. We have the option of going big by inserting Baynes or "small" with Smart or Morris out there. It gives Tatum & Brown every opportunity to to really take the reigns as well.

That's a deal you do with AD on your team. He makes no sense for our current team.

Then again, neither does Horford.

[jeremym480]

Rozier Fever: catch it while you can, before you start massaging Hayward's thighs..

Read on Twitter

Why are we still posting stuff from Robot Dave

Mind catching me up on who this robot guy is? Any credibility?

I think it's the free, non-human (host) version of incarceratedbob.

[sully00]

The thing that has been drummed into our heads for years is the treasure trove of assets the Celtics had would be able to go in multiple successful directions. By trading Tatum essentially for AD you would accomplish. Eliminating the logjam at the wing positions with the option of a capped team resigning Morris. Meanwhile you are exponentially improving your big man situation.
There was also the ability to trade Kyrie by the trade deadline with known suitors like the Clippers. So assuming we don't sign Kyrie, are we trying to get Russell for it or in reality gstting absolutely nothing?
So to me the shell game is about the assets and their use. When we put a dollar in quarters under a shell, move. It around and its 50 cents when you pick up the shell, then things were botched. If Morris, Rozier and Irving are gone for nothing, combined with the Sacramento pick fiasco, it will have the feel of a stock that was going great and then nosedived out of control.
Again to me it is about the assets. You can't talk about how brilliant Ainge is to get a likely inconsequential draft pick, and miss this aspect of the whole last season's moves or lack thereof.

Trading Tatum for Davis would have been a horrible use of that asset it would have essentially pissed away the entire Nets trade. Dude did not want to be here there is no pissing away of assets that can change that.

Losing Irving at the cost of the pick that became Sexton is a loss.

Morris has already served his purpose he was here to provide salary cap space and be a useful depth piece he exceeded those expectations.

Rozier is a story yet to be told. He could have been traded for a lottery protected first most likely and was kept as insurance against the situation that is likely about to play out. I don't think he is likely to get an offer sheet to his liking nor one Boston won't match so this should be easy.

Boston still has 3 first round picks and Memphis '20 pick to work with the only asset lost at this point is Irving assuming he is gone.

I will hold off on my choicest Kyrie Irving thoughts until his decision is final which has a lot to do with how I feel about this (hope I'm wrong.) I also agree with Ainge passing on AD now, with the thought that he could walk at the end of the year. After last year's debacle with all of the Celtics talent, I could see them losing everything too with another dysfunctional season.
My point with Morris has always been the same going back to the trade deadline when I wanted to keep him instead of getting another late first round pick. If you were to get rid of Tatum, Brown or both, you now have the right number of wings, including Hayward, without expending any assets. So even if the Celtics traded say Brown for a different big player now, you still have Bird rights with Morris, with three quality wing players.
To me it is about the Celtics lack of cap flexibility to be able to reshape the roster. As always, I am willing to see this through the process.
We agree there is story left to be told overall and I'm not giving up on a happy ending - just very skeptical of it

What gives Morris a future in Boston is the fact that to the C's he is a PF and only Horford and Theis really can be considered that on the roster at this point. Tatum has not grown into that role yet and Baynes and Williams are 5's. I guess Yabu and Semi are PF's but they are not guys who have earned consideration at this point at any position. I like a frontcourt that features Baynes and Morris as options next to Horford but they are almost a package deal as I am not sure I like any of the 3 individually at their price as much I do the trio.

It is the strange part of losing Irving is that even at that you have too many guys for too few minutes.

[RickyDizzle]

Would anyone have any qualms about a deal with Hayward & draft pick(s) for Conley? It seems like a "kill two birds with one stone" type of deal. We still have too many wing players & lack a true starting PG.

I would consider making that deal & still match any reasonable offer for Rozier. This time with the intention of flipping him later in the year or next offseason. Aside from Kyrie, it is really unlike Ainge to lose an asset for nothing. Then I would re-sign Morris, as he will have a more clear cut role for him as well.

Conley / Rozier (or vet PG)
Brown / Smart
Tatum
Horford / Morris
Baynes / Williams

That's a better version of the team we had two seasons ago & it doesn't cripple us from a cap or future draft pick standpoint. I think the P&R game between Conley & Horford could be fantastic. We have the option of going big by inserting Baynes or "small" with Smart or Morris out there. It gives Tatum & Brown every opportunity to to really take the reigns as well.

That's a deal you do with AD on your team. He makes no sense for our current team.

Then again, neither does Horford.

Something centered around Hayward for Conley does a lot to balance the roster, but Id bet hayward has more life and productive basketball left in him comparedbto Conley despite his celtics career to date indicating otherwise.

[bucknersrevenge]

To me, Smart earned the right to remain a starter. His value was so obvious last year throughout the turmoil. And that he did it AFTER he signed the new deal IMO shouldn't be understated. I went to the NBA Draft in 2016 when we drafted him. I knew we were getting a leader and a gamer. With what just happened I just don't see how you tell him to go back to the bench again unless you are getting a player at Kyrie's talent level. His passing is fine enough for primary handling duties but you can expect the Usage to go up a ton for Tatum and Brown anyway so big deal if Smart doesn't look like your traditional lead guard.

So if you have him, the Jay's, Al (if he comes back) where does that leave Hayward. If you put him in the starting lineup, that was the same starting lineup that got its collective ass handed to it to start this last season. Say what you want about Kyrie but he's not responsible for everything. So what's the solution? You have to put our 30M golden boy back on the bench to be a 6th man.

Considering he will still have to prove he's back to himself, from a talent standpoint, it makes sense. But it's getting almost comicial to think we'll have spent $120M on a 6th man. But that's what he'll be. Start Baynes. Let Hayward run the bench crew. No Rozier. Find a new backup PG to play with him, Semi, TimeLord and our draft picks.

I think this is the best we can hope for.

[TheOGJabroni]

Would anyone have any qualms about a deal with Hayward & draft pick(s) for Conley? It seems like a "kill two birds with one stone" type of deal. We still have too many wing players & lack a true starting PG.

I would consider making that deal & still match any reasonable offer for Rozier. This time with the intention of flipping him later in the year or next offseason. Aside from Kyrie, it is really unlike Ainge to lose an asset for nothing. Then I would re-sign Morris, as he will have a more clear cut role for him as well.

Conley / Rozier (or vet PG)
Brown / Smart
Tatum
Horford / Morris
Baynes / Williams

That's a better version of the team we had two seasons ago & it doesn't cripple us from a cap or future draft pick standpoint. I think the P&R game between Conley & Horford could be fantastic. We have the option of going big by inserting Baynes or "small" with Smart or Morris out there. It gives Tatum & Brown every opportunity to to really take the reigns as well.

That's a deal you do with AD on your team. He makes no sense for our current team.

Then again, neither does Horford.

Neither does Hayward, using that mindset though; this trade at least balances the roster a bit. I think it does make sense if you believe this team will still be competitive in the east, which I do. Milwaukee should be a force no matter what but after that, there are questions about Toronto with Kawhi & we seem to have Philly's number. We'll see what Brooklyn looks like.

It would be a different make up to the team but I think they would be really sound defensively compared to last year. If Tatum & Brown take their games to new levels, I think we'll be in the mix still personally.

Otherwise, you are right, Al doesn't necessarily fit if we don't have strong aspirations for next year. If he opts out, then I change direction and try to unload Hayward at the deadline, assuming he looks closer to his normal set & if we don't look like threats in the east.

[Darth Celtic]

Smart/Rozier
JB/
Hayward/
JT
Horford/Baynes/Timelord.

Picks and maybe Morris and MLE to fill out the roster.

Smart should start. It seems Horford is staying. Morris and Rozier are salary for trades which we need as we wont be under the cap anytime soon enough to matter.

[Darth Celtic]

Would anyone have any qualms about a deal with Hayward & draft pick(s) for Conley? It seems like a "kill two birds with one stone" type of deal. We still have too many wing players & lack a true starting PG.

I would consider making that deal & still match any reasonable offer for Rozier. This time with the intention of flipping him later in the year or next offseason. Aside from Kyrie, it is really unlike Ainge to lose an asset for nothing. Then I would re-sign Morris, as he will have a more clear cut role for him as well.

Conley / Rozier (or vet PG)
Brown / Smart
Tatum
Horford / Morris
Baynes / Williams

That's a better version of the team we had two seasons ago & it doesn't cripple us from a cap or future draft pick standpoint. I think the P&R game between Conley & Horford could be fantastic. We have the option of going big by inserting Baynes or "small" with Smart or Morris out there. It gives Tatum & Brown every opportunity to to really take the reigns as well.

That's a deal you do with AD on your team. He makes no sense for our current team.

Then again, neither does Horford.

Neither does Hayward, using that mindset though; this trade at least balances the roster a bit. I think it does make sense if you believe this team will still be competitive in the east, which I do. Milwaukee should be a force no matter what but after that, there are questions about Toronto with Kawhi & we seem to have Philly's number. We'll see what Brooklyn looks like.

It would be a different make up to the team but I think they would be really sound defensively compared to last year. If Tatum & Brown take their games to new levels, I think we'll be in the mix still personally.

Otherwise, you are right, Al doesn't necessarily fit if we don't have strong aspirations for next year. If he opts out, then I change direction and try to unload Hayward at the deadline, assuming he looks closer to his normal set & if we don't look like threats in the east.

Conley is just a tad over 2 years older, would require assets along with Hayward to get, and not to mention trading your head coaches favorite player and friend for him as well. We aren't in a win now mode, we shouldn't give up picks to get a 32 year old pg.

[Half-Full]

It’s in the Celtics best interest to try and resign Rozier and Morris. Celtics have very little means of acquiring players. Can’t let two more assets leave with nothing in return. Rozier, Morris and others can always be traded later.

This.

Just like Smart, something between 10 an $15M would make them assets for a future trade.

It would be the smart thing to do, without question. The Celtics would remain a competitive team, and if one (or hopefully more) of the draft picks proves to be a winner, we could be sitting pretty. Having Rozier and Morris as trade assets opens up further possibilities for improving the team.

[Theocy]

I hope we get russel back from kyrie somehow.

Russell brown gordon tatum al is a good starting 5
If al goes then we need to figure out who starts at the C position and there’s literally 0 cap space. In that case gordon dosnt fit at all so he probably gets offloaded too. But keeping both would be a good vet presence in a team that will be lead by younglings.

there's no way to "get russell back" from kyrie.
1- why would kyrie want to help boston?
2- why would the nets want to help boston?

DLO would need to sign as a free agent, just like anywhere else. it doesnt earn him any more money, nor would it get kyrie any more money.

I believe with kyrie off the books, you get 21ish mil. By restructuring Al's deal of 30mil for 2019-20, to say 20 mil per year for 3 years (yea, I dont want him back, but I think this is likely the scenario), that should cover it... right?

rozier's stock is down, otherwise Id suggest a sign and trade. but who wants a shoot first PG that cant shoot

I was under the impression sign and trade bothways would help the Jets keep some of their talent and cap flexibility. That is how the two teams help each other out.

Kyrie and Al off the books give us some flexibility but nto enough to sign a max player i think. Probably some money to play around but nothign that would make us instant contenders. It needs to be al kyrie and gordon to be able to make some good deals.

[Edug27]

Smart/Rozier
JB/
Hayward/
JT
Horford/Baynes/Timelord.

Picks and maybe Morris and MLE to fill out the roster.

Smart should start. It seems Horford is staying. Morris and Rozier are salary for trades which we need as we wont be under the cap anytime soon enough to matter.

My opinion: Smart is not an NBA starting PG. He's a defensive specialist off the bench. He's Iggy. Rozier fits that role better. He can pass within the offense, and he can score the ball. Not perfect by any means though, but no one on the roster is.

I'm also tired of Marcus Morris. I say we rebuild the bench. Add 3 solid veteran pieces around Smart and Baynes. Particularly dudes who can put..the..ball..in..the..hole...

Rozier / Smart
Brown / **veteran**
Hayward / **veteran**
Tatum / **veteran**
Horford / Baynes / Williams

Then, if Beal comes available... You start those convo's.

[Darth Celtic]

Smart/Rozier
JB/
Hayward/
JT
Horford/Baynes/Timelord.

Picks and maybe Morris and MLE to fill out the roster.

Smart should start. It seems Horford is staying. Morris and Rozier are salary for trades which we need as we wont be under the cap anytime soon enough to matter.

My opinion: Smart is not an NBA starting PG. He's a defensive specialist off the bench. He's Iggy. Rozier fits that role better. He can pass within the offense, and he can score the ball. Not perfect by any means though, but no one on the roster is.

I'm also tired of Marcus Morris. I say we rebuild the bench. Add 3 solid veteran pieces around Smart and Baynes. Particularly dudes who can put..the..ball..in..the..hole...

Rozier / Smart
Brown / **veteran**
Hayward / **veteran**
Tatum / **veteran**
Horford / Baynes / Williams

Then, if Beal comes available... You start those convo's.

Beal is looking like an AD type deal for the Wizards. All news is he's not available unless it's some stupid deal. And he doesn't move the needle enough as a player.

If Morris leaves, and we have the full MLE, how do we sign 3 vets worth playing better than Morris?

[BRUNiNHO91]

I'd resign Al, 3/70, match Rozier on anything under 12 million. Similar offer for Morris.

Bring back nearly the same team + draft picks and laugh once it wins more games than the Lakers and whatever team Kyrie picks.

I'd also keep an eye out for Blake Griffin at the deadline. Brown + Rozier at around 12-14 million a year, Yabu and the 14th pick after we sign him should get us close ish salary wise.

Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Griffin and Horford would be nice.