Celtics trade Kemba Walker for Al Horford

[bisme37]

Oh hey!

I like this a lot.

Gets us off Kemba's salary, opens cap space. Horford's deal is only partially guaranteed after this coming season.

Horford back to the C's! We lose Kemba's scoring but add passing and defense and size. Which we need more than Kemba's scoring. With Horford back on a team he actually wants to play for I think we'll see a phenomenon like with Blake Griffin in Brooklyn. Suddenly he's not washed anymore and will contribute at a high level. And we get Anna back! Meow!

We give up a mid-first but get Moses Brown, who is worth that pick. 7'2" athletic big and uber-rebounder with upside at only 21 years old.

And Brad shows us he's not a hoarder of middling draft picks and will use our assets while they're still assets.

Good day.

[JHTruth]

obviously Stevens is just getting started this offseason....but just for fun let's look at the way too early depth chart (assuming Fournier is now back)

Smart-Jaylen-Tatum-Horford-Timelord
Pritch-Romeo-Fournier-Nesmith-Tristian
Moses-Grant-Edwards

I mean.....not for nothing but that team is pretty badass... Tough defensively....Yes, they would be relying on Pritch/Romeo/Nesmith maturing and being able to contribute, but I think they will be ready.....That's a pretty interesting squad right there.

Horford and Timelord wont be on the floor together.
Horford showed that he cannot play PF anymore when he was last in Philly, He is a center.,

Smart/Pritchard
Fournier/Romeo/Edwards
Brown/Nesmith
Tatum/Parker/GrantW
Horford/Thompson/Moses/Timelord

Thompson, Edwards, Parker are all available.
Romeo and Timelord are available for a starter.

IMO

LOL Rob as the 4th string? You are out of your f******** mind. Moses is the new Tacko. TT is gone. Horford and Rob will split the C mins.

[Froob]

I'd like to grab a true point guard. I don't like making Smart the primary ball handler. There any we can get?

[MrGreenRunsDeep]

Moses and time lord = Block Party!

[BigTrade92]

Meh with the first round pick complaints.

- You got rid of little Kemba with the gimpy knee on one of the worst contracts in the league.
- Brought back a solid veteran big man, who was a great mentor for this team, as admitted by your stars in Tatum & Brown.
- Additionally acquired a 7'2", 21-year-old big man, who destroyed us in head-to-head competition previously.
- Along with saving a decent amount of cap money that now leads to an increased flexibility in the trade market.
- Plus, Yam Mader is essentially our first round pick this year anyway....and he looks pretty good.

This trade was a win for Brad.

[cloverleaf]

Whoa--go tend to life for a few hours and this happens!

How much of this is Zarren as opposed to Stevens who knows, but I think it is a credible first move for the Stevens GM era.

Al's wanted to play purely at the 4 since he got here the 1st time, and it makes all the more sense now. He's gonna be 35, so who knows how much juice he has left, but we know he's a solid pro to have around. He's also a perfect complement to Rob's current strengths.

And it is cliche to have the young player getting traded to whatever team he has had his best-ever game against, but I'm ready for Moses to go with us to the Promised Land. (Or, how quickly could he be flipped in, say, a KAT deal? More likely they really want to see what they have in him.) Thompson maybe not ready to be a deeper bench guy, so his expiring contract probably goes in a deal this summer.

[celticfan42487]

Who cares about the players in the deal. Seriously, who cares? This is about being prepared for when a star says “I want to play with Jayson Tatum.” They are more ready for that day than they were yesterday. Simple as that.

If we take out the players in the deal then we're just short one #16 overall pick. Which is also my main concern. We lost assets for the future to trade for a star because we couldn't just sit there and let Kemba expire.

First off, wait until everything is done, we may yet end up with a draft pick after all with players most likely on the move.

Second off - Moses for the #16 is a solid, very solid pick. Kid has 2 years NBA experience, is long and tall, has elite skills, knows his role on the floor and is proven. Still only 21 years old.

Third leaves leaves Kemba and a 2nd rounder to get a player who is healthier, fits the team FAR better, and expires sooner with his half salary guarantee next season.

Lastly, This saves boston loads and allows team to resign Fournier

Yeah that's fair. And for the record I don't give a *** about gaining or losing Kemba, Horford, or Moses.

I really don't consider any of them assets for the team. I only care about losing a near lottery pick in a very deep draft for nothing on a team desperate for talent.

I also have no concerns with having TT, Rob, Horford, Moses on this team because history would suggest that there will be a lot of games we won't have Horford or Rob for many games next year so we have plenty of minutes to go around.

As for Fournier, I'm not sure we can resign him AND Smart AND Rob.

Which for everyone saying oh we now get Beal, Rob's QO has a cap hold of 10 million on it. We would have to have a team with talent to attract Beal and I don't think just Jaylen and Tatum and Pritchard is enough. Hitting a gold mine pick on the #16 might change the landscape of the team though.

And again if the price of keeping the #16 pick was just keeping Kemba then I'm not estatic at losing it for a few luxury tax dollars if theoretically the owners would pay those same dollars down the line to keep Fournier and Smart. I'd rather have the #16 pick than Fournier for sure as it's a cost controlled asset for the long term and could develop into a good trading piece.

All that said this is all very much theorycraft and we'll see how it goes. But that's my only concerns, if we didn't trade the #16 pick in this draft then I wouldn't give any ***s. I'm sure we'll have the 16 pick again next year just in a far worse draft and one year close to Tatum being able to demand a trade which should come with 2 years or 1 year left on his contract.

[Hal14]

Don’t get a few of the opinions I’ve read here that Brown, who was undrafted, is equivalent to the 16th pick in a deep draft. The Thunder don’t either - which is why they gave him up. He is certainly NOT a Timelord replacement in any shape or form - though Horford gives us flexibility there.

From what I’ve seen and read about him from
Thunder fans, he’s tall and can rebound but was a pretty terrible player for them. His best is to develop into a situational guy.

Okay deal - I get the rationale but a bit hard to stomach given strength of this draft. Whether it’s worth it will largely depend on what we are able to do with the cap flexibility.

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

Not sure about equal defenders. Kai has potential to be better defender who can defend 1-5.

Kai also shoots 38% from 3, which is above the NBA league average of 36%.

Kai can also put the ball on the floor and either take it all the way to the rim or hit pull up jumper, can hit turnaround jumper out of mid-post, just much more offensive potential than Brown

It's not even just about kai Jones - as you said, he might be gone in the first 15. Springer, Jared Butler, Roko Prkacin, Usman Garuba, Jalen Johnson, Alperen Sengun, Trey Murphy. These are all potential guys we could have taken at 16, probably all are better than Brown, especially since everything Brown brings to the table (young guy, good size/length athleticism who can rebound and be a rim runner) those are literally all things we already are getting in Time Lord.

Perhaps the celtics are not feeling so good about Time Lord's future health-wise. Perhaps the next move is including Time Lord in the next trade, preferably a trade where we use one of these TPEs to get a really good player coming back..

[chrisab123]

Just a friendly reminder that Moses Brown is a 21-year old bouncy center that is 7"2!!

Timelord and/or Tristian are likely gone this summer.

The franchise is even more stupid than I thought if they trade Rob Williams

Timelord is about as durable as my 92 year old grandma. he's entering the final year of his rookie deal...he is going to be expensive beyond this year and as much as I like Timelord, I am not sold on him being worth the long-term investment. I view Timelord much more as a valuable trade chip to bring something back that can help the team for years to come. remember, it takes something to get something.

For example Timelord S&T Fournier and TT for Ball and Adams

People around here would be pissed

But this would be an excellent starting 5 in the east.

[JHTruth]

The franchise is even more stupid than I thought if they trade Rob Williams

Timelord is about as durable as my 92 year old grandma. he's entering the final year of his rookie deal...he is going to be expensive beyond this year and as much as I like Timelord, I am not sold on him being worth the long-term investment. I view Timelord much more as a valuable trade chip to bring something back that can help the team for years to come. remember, it takes something to get something.

For example Timelord S&T Fournier and TT for Ball and Adams

People around here would be pissed

But this would be an excellent starting 5 in the east.

Adams is totally f***** washed. TimeLord Fournier, and TT is WAAAAAAAAAY too much for Ball.

Horrendous trade

[LuckyLeprechaun]

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

Rob Williams averaged 8 points 7 rebounds 1.8 blk in 19 mpg last season. Moses Brown averaged 8 points 9 rebounds 1.1 blk in 21 mpg last season. If you think Moses Brown is only fodder then Rob is also only fodder. Their numbers are nearly identical.

[JediMasterRevan]

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

He wasnt fodder.

HE was a piece that was wanted to make the trade fair. He is a very good young piece who will only get better. He is very much like allen/capella Will be a great rim running shot blocking rebound machine

[JHTruth]

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

He wasnt fodder.

HE was a piece that was wanted to make the trade fair. He is a very good young piece who will only get better. He is very much like allen/capella Will be a great rim running shot blocking rebound machine

So now he's a Capela/Jarrett Allen clone.

Good god man get a grip

[bisme37]

I'm a big TimeLord guy too but it seems like a bunch of you guys are forgetting the dude never actually plays.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Sneaky best part of this trade is that it happened before Phillys game tonight and you know its a distraction for them

[JediMasterRevan]

Bingo.

Moses Brown cannot be both

1) An elite C prospect with elite potential

AND

2) Fodder in a big trade

He can be better than Tacko but not much more IMHO

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

Not sure about equal defenders. Kai has potential to be better defender who can defend 1-5.

Kai also shoots 38% from 3, which is above the NBA league average of 36%.

Kai can also put the ball on the floor and either take it all the way to the rim or hit pull up jumper, can hit turnaround jumper out of mid-post, just much more offensive potential than Brown

It's not even just about kai Jones - as you said, he might be gone in the first 15. Springer, Jared Butler, Roko Prkacin, Usman Garuba, Jalen Johnson, Alperen Sengun, Trey Murphy. These are all potential guys we could have taken at 16, probably all are better than Brown, especially since everything Brown brings to the table (young guy, good size/length athleticism who can rebound and be a rim runner) those are literally all things we already are getting in Time Lord.

Perhaps the celtics are not feeling so good about Time Lord's future health-wise. Perhaps the next move is including Time Lord in the next trade, preferably a trade where we use one of these TPEs to get a really good player coming back..

Stating any of them as probably better than Moses is not a known thing at all.

We know that on a **** team with no opportunity Moses basically averaged a double double with 1.5 bpg. That is excellent for a 21 year old.

[JHTruth]

Moses is far more 1 and 2.

Moses is a very good player who is improving quickly. Still only 21 years old. Elite rebounder, great rim runner, elite length, healthy.

He is a fantastic add and as good as any prospect in the #16 range.

Kemba and a 2nd for Horford
#16 for Moses Brown.

Very happy with this.

Compare that with say Kai Jones (who might be picked prior pick 16)
High energy players - both
Hyper athletic Kai versus athletic Moses
good rebounder Kai versus Great rebounder Moses
Equal defenders
1 year difference in age

Moses has already shown he can play in the NBA

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

Rob Williams averaged 8 points 7 rebounds 1.8 blk in 19 mpg last season. Moses Brown averaged 8 points 9 rebounds 1.1 blk in 21 mpg last season. If you think Moses Brown is only fodder then Rob is also only fodder. Their numbers are nearly identical.

Rob started on a playoff team for a stretch and the team went 10-3. Moses was player on a tanking team. Hard to compare

[JediMasterRevan]

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

He wasnt fodder.

HE was a piece that was wanted to make the trade fair. He is a very good young piece who will only get better. He is very much like allen/capella Will be a great rim running shot blocking rebound machine

So now he's a Capela/Jarrett Allen clone.

Good god man get a grip

Have you ever watched him at all?

First of I never called him a clone, I stated that he is like them in his play style. you are not going to run an offense through him but he will gobble boards and dunk when open. Block shots and rebound on defense.

[celticfan42487]

The franchise is even more stupid than I thought if they trade Rob Williams

Timelord is about as durable as my 92 year old grandma. he's entering the final year of his rookie deal...he is going to be expensive beyond this year and as much as I like Timelord, I am not sold on him being worth the long-term investment. I view Timelord much more as a valuable trade chip to bring something back that can help the team for years to come. remember, it takes something to get something.

For example Timelord S&T Fournier and TT for Ball and Adams

People around here would be pissed

But this would be an excellent starting 5 in the east.

It would, and Ball is only 23 so he's an actual asset too.

Ball/Pritch
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Adams

That's a 4th seed. We'd be playing with ATL for the next few years kind as the opposite version of them but equal as teams.

[JediMasterRevan]

I think you're letting your Rob hate cloud your judgement here. If Moses was really that good, he wouldn't have been fodder in a salary trade

Rob Williams averaged 8 points 7 rebounds 1.8 blk in 19 mpg last season. Moses Brown averaged 8 points 9 rebounds 1.1 blk in 21 mpg last season. If you think Moses Brown is only fodder then Rob is also only fodder. Their numbers are nearly identical.

Rob started on a playoff team for a stretch and the team went 10-3. Moses was player on a tanking team. Hard to compare

Rob had the luxury of playing with Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Fournier

Moses had SGA and no one.

Hard to compare.