Welcome Derrick White

[celticfan42487]

I was saying PER is ranked as the 3rd worst advanced stat, in that link I posted.

He’s taking shots he’s going to eventually going to hit, I just take more from how he plays than how he’s shooting, as of now.

Oh I hear you.

I also assume he'll turn around. I hope the last two games actually were his official breaking of the slump he's been in. But only suggest that if he continues to play the absolute worst he has in his entire career and he simply can't adjust to the Celtics system for whatever reason then he needs to be careful because we will replace his minutes on this team.

We're not going to keep playing the current version of White if he stays this way through the playoffs and into next year as he has.

Grant wants his minutes, Theis needs his minutes, Pritchard is demanding more minutes, and we'll have at least one guy with our MLE that will want his minutes.

All that said... yeah like the odds are that this is who he is now are like 5% at best? No one is this unlucky, no one losses their offensive game halfway through the season after you trade for him in the middle of their prime playing the same system for the most part that they have their entire career.

But it is on him to turn it around. No one else can turn it around for him, much like in the way I agree with how he plays.

This isn't him playing wrong or taking the wrong shots. This is flatly him making shots in a make or miss league. And he's taking a lot of WIDE open 3s because defenses are not respecting him because they've noticed how he's been playing and adjusted to it (well also more so because they need to shade their cover over and double Tatum mostly lol. Either way he needs to make them pay).

That's kind of the secret X factor for our entire team. Pritchard may cool down, Smart may cool down. But with their potential shooting regression we get positive regression with White then it won't matter as much. It'll balance out. Sure we won't shoot 60 fing percent no matter what like we have been but it will balance out.

It's on White, and in the playoffs we want White going out there when we can't afford to play Pritchard and Durant demands a switch onto him every single play. Much better to have White being the guy taking that switch than Pritchard. You won't lose anything on defense with that switch which is key to our defense and what we will need in the playoffs when we face the real teams with MVP players trying their hardest. 5 guys that won't lose you the game on defense for our switch defense. And won't force us to play protect the weak link defense like Stevens had to often for Kemba, IT, Irving, ect.

[celticfan42487]

Good lord. so many things wrong with this post. This hurts my head to read.

1) He's not a shooter. Stop expecting him to be one. We didn't get him for his shooting. We got him for his defense, his play making. How he constantly puts pressure on opposing defenses when he's on offense and he constantly puts pressure on opposing offenses when he's on defense. He makes his teammates better. Did you not see the assist stats that Zoya posted on this exact page? He's a veteran, he's a winner who makes winning plays. And yes, occasionally, he'll score on drives to the hoop or by hitting 3's here and there.

"he doesn't create anything for anyone" are you kidding me? c'mon man, watch the games and check out the stats that Zoya posted on this page and the previous page..

2) with that being said, like you said, 33.5% career 3 pt shooter (on a HUGE sample size). So far in boston, he's shooting 23% from 3 (on a TINY sample size). Obviously, he will regress to the mean and get closer to that 33%-34% range. In the meantime, he is still a highly valuable player for this team. If you can't see that, if you feel like there's nothing more to basketball than shooting, then I don't know what to tell ya..

If you feel like our post all star assists numbers are due to White only or even in large part due to White on the floor then I have nothing more to tell you.

We do need him to shoot. He needs to hit his career averages to be useful.

He's sucked a lot since he's been here.

You're just whining because you can't handle anything other than lollipop thoughts when it comes to Celtics players. He's massively underperformed here, we've paid a **** ton to get him, he needs to at least get back to his averages or we not only should, we will move on.

The clock is ticking on him, we have stars on this team and we have Smart. We're not going to waste their time if a 27 year old vet can't figure it.


So calm down and think before you post to see if you're literatlly saying anything I haven't already said but just not in the way someone would talk to a 4 year old knowing that reality is too much for them to handle. That might help your brain from hurting when it reads obvious truths.

Literally the only thing he’s doing wrong is not making his shots. And offcourse thats a very important skill but he’s a huge addition at ALL the other things. He’s the glue on offense, defense, bench etc. I really don’t know what you are seeing but the product we’re currently delivering is also due to his presence in the total picture of our team.

Yeah he's apart of the whole. What I'm seeing is what he likely will be soon. Not what he is now. And knowing what he is now is not acceptable with the expectations of what he should bring to the table. And with a 0.0 VORP what other potential replacement players in the offseason could also be for this team with his minutes. Or what our team could be with more minutes for Grant or Pritchard or Theis out there.

We don't start from 0 and compare him to nothing so every little good thing he does is a win, we start with what his minutes could be replaced with as the opportunity cost and how much better is he than what his replacement could give us.

Again it basically sums up to he's not hitting his shots for some reason, he likely will start doing so, if for whatever reason he doesn't ever find his game again we have other options and we're not going to carry his water as we are going for it with this team and we're going to be a very valuable destination in the off season for other players looking to make their name in this league and without much depth on the bench (or like half of them are gleaguers so it isn't a death lineup bench to break into) and see their stats rise playing off Tatum.

I'm just waiting for him to positively regress. Hopefully the past 2 games was finally the start of it.

[Stan34]

Cs could have as many as five potential all-NBA defensive candidates but realistically we might just get one. Which is annoying.

Smart, White, Tatum, Horford, Timelord all have legit cases to be on an all-NBA defensive team. Bigs tougher time to crack a team because Gobert, Draymond, Giannis, Bam, and Embiid exist. Players should be penalized for missing time though so if it were up to me, Draymond, Lonzo, and Caruso shouldn't make it.

Rob should make it. I think he's better than Gobert. They are about equal at protecting the rim and Rob guards on the perimeter.

Smart is definitely a first teamer this year.

I think Rob is DPOY.

Rob is awesome, but he is in no way better defensively than Gobert. Rudy better defending the rim and switching onto the perimeter, he’s the best defensive player of this generation.

We don’t need to diminish what other guys do to prop up Celtics players.

Gobert is one of the reason Utah early exit every PS. He plays D on the perimeter in drope coverage. Snyder benched him a lot of times in PO. I remember the two Houston series he was unplayable. Those award are for the RS, PO are another storie. Timelord yes yes yes is much better defender than Gobert. Not vs center but on the perimeter no chance for Rudy G

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[zoyathedestroya]

I think there's a chance he could miss a game or two in the postseason, hopefully before the Finals. He and his wife are expecting their first child soon.

[playa-hater]

I think there's a chance he could miss a game or two in the postseason, hopefully before the Finals. He and his wife are expecting their first child soon.

Nesmith will have his back

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Rob should make it. I think he's better than Gobert. They are about equal at protecting the rim and Rob guards on the perimeter.

Smart is definitely a first teamer this year.

I think Rob is DPOY.

Rob is awesome, but he is in no way better defensively than Gobert. Rudy better defending the rim and switching onto the perimeter, he’s the best defensive player of this generation.

We don’t need to diminish what other guys do to prop up Celtics players.

Gobert is one of the reason Utah early exit every PS. He plays D on the perimeter in drope coverage. Snyder benched him a lot of times in PO. I remember the two Houston series he was unplayable. Those award are for the RS, PO are another storie. Timelord yes yes yes is much better defender than Gobert. Not vs center but on the perimeter no chance for Rudy G

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First off, I'm not sure why you bring up series that happened like five years ago. Players are allowed to improve you know. It's not like Timelord was locking guys down in the playoffs at the time either.

Then there's the fact that your take is just wrong. In those two series, the Jazz held Houston to 108 and 109 points per 100 possessions which is fine (good even considering those were some of the most efficient offenses ever). They lost because they didn't knock down their open outside shots. That culminated with shooting 26% on 36 attempts per game from three in 2019 hence why they got rid of the Rubios and Favors of the world to bring in a bunch of shooters instead.

[Stan34]

Rob is awesome, but he is in no way better defensively than Gobert. Rudy better defending the rim and switching onto the perimeter, he’s the best defensive player of this generation.

We don’t need to diminish what other guys do to prop up Celtics players.

Gobert is one of the reason Utah early exit every PS. He plays D on the perimeter in drope coverage. Snyder benched him a lot of times in PO. I remember the two Houston series he was unplayable. Those award are for the RS, PO are another storie. Timelord yes yes yes is much better defender than Gobert. Not vs center but on the perimeter no chance for Rudy G

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First off, I'm not sure why you bring up series that happened like five years ago. Players are allowed to improve you know. It's not like Timelord was locking guys down in the playoffs at the time either.

Then there's the fact that your take is just wrong. In those two series, the Jazz held Houston to 108 and 109 points per 100 possessions which is fine (good even considering those were some of the most efficient offenses ever). They lost because they didn't knock down their open outside shots. That culminated with shooting 26% on 36 attempts per game from three in 2019 hence why they got rid of the Rubios and Favors of the world to bring in a bunch of shooters instead.

Ok I'm wrong!

https://www.slcdunk.com/2019/4/13/18306750/2019-nba-playoffs-rudy-gobert-clint-capela-utah-jazz-houston-rockets

If Gobert is targeted with P&R in a playoff series it's a problema for Utah.

Zach Lowe and other analyst have talked about it thousend of times but ok.

Stay with your narrative

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[Stan34]

I dont have to convince you. You can find adv stats RS vs PO everywhere.

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[Smart2Nesmith43]

Gobert is one of the reason Utah early exit every PS. He plays D on the perimeter in drope coverage. Snyder benched him a lot of times in PO. I remember the two Houston series he was unplayable. Those award are for the RS, PO are another storie. Timelord yes yes yes is much better defender than Gobert. Not vs center but on the perimeter no chance for Rudy G

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First off, I'm not sure why you bring up series that happened like five years ago. Players are allowed to improve you know. It's not like Timelord was locking guys down in the playoffs at the time either.

Then there's the fact that your take is just wrong. In those two series, the Jazz held Houston to 108 and 109 points per 100 possessions which is fine (good even considering those were some of the most efficient offenses ever). They lost because they didn't knock down their open outside shots. That culminated with shooting 26% on 36 attempts per game from three in 2019 hence why they got rid of the Rubios and Favors of the world to bring in a bunch of shooters instead.

Ok I'm wrong!

https://www.slcdunk.com/2019/4/13/18306750/2019-nba-playoffs-rudy-gobert-clint-capela-utah-jazz-houston-rockets

If Gobert is targeted with P&R in a playoff series it's a problema for Utah.

Zach Lowe and other analyst have talked about it thousend of times but ok.

Stay with your narrative

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I don't have a narrative. I just don't like lazy, unsubstantiated takes but if you want a narrative here's one for you. The Celtics defense took off once Udoka tweaked his scheme to keep Timelord as the low man in the corner at all times instead of having him switch on the perimeter constantly. Which is odd since Robert Williams is so awesome and locking everybody up on the perimeter right ?

I dont have to convince you. You can find adv stats RS vs PO everywhere.

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That means you should have no problem finding numbers that prove that Gobert's defense is so bad and then I'll admit I'm wrong. Because the eye test tells me it's not Gobert that's the problem, it's all the no effort guards on the Jazz that die on every screen and let Gobert play defense one on two.

[Stan34]

I posted an article. So take the stats,
Look at the difference. Everybody knows that Rudy Gobert can be targeted in PO. That was the reason alot of people were not so sure about give Jim max contract. Cause he is a great RS player



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[Marvel]

Bro i thought i was in the Rudy Gobert thread.

[Fencer reregistered]

I hope it isn't too badly off-topic to post about Derrick White in the Derrick White thread. Anyhow:

I think I noticed something about White on the Wolves highlight video -- he moves his feet differently that other players do, taking many more steps per second than other guys would. I looked for that because of his somewhat goofy hopping around mannerism.

The obvious analogy would be boxing footwork -- it's similarly fast, you're often facing your opponent pretty squarely, and the same hopping look ensues. I'm actually more familiar with other martial arts, especially -- you guessed it! -- fencing.

So anyway -- am I imagining this, or is it something real?

[zoyathedestroya]

Since the trade deadline, Celtics have the best record, #1 offensive rating, #1 defensive rating, #1 net rating, and #1 true shooting % in the league. The bench has the #1 net rating (15th prior) and #5 in TS% (19th prior).

My simple mind would think the trade for White was a factor in making us significantly better, at least in the very short term. Everyone has functional eyeballs too that can discern the stark difference between how we played with Schroder/Richardson/Kanter and PP/White/Theis.

We may not have traded for a star, but a high-level role player that fits like a glove seems to do the job just as well or even better since he not only doesn't take away shots from the Jays but makes their lives easier with his willing timely passing, constant movement, and quick decision-making.

[sam_I_am]

Since the trade deadline, Celtics have the best record, #1 offensive rating, #1 defensive rating, #1 net rating, and #1 true shooting % in the league. The bench has the #1 net rating (15th prior) and #5 in TS% (19th prior).

My simple mind would think the trade for White was a factor in making us significantly better, at least in the very short term. Everyone has functional eyeballs too that can discern the stark difference between how we played with Schroder/Richardson/Kanter and PP/White/Theis.

We may not have traded for a star, but a high-level role player that fits like a glove seems to do the job just as well or even better since he not only doesn't take away shots from the Jays but makes their lives easier with his willing timely passing, constant movement, and quick decision-making.

White has struggled at times with his individual game. However, the moment he stepped on the court as a Celtic he brought something special and it’s as if a switch flipped for the whole team. Sometimes it takes a player coach to get through to the team and I think that his energy and play proved something to the rest of the team. They were already coming together but things ignited and the rest of the team followed that example almost immediately even when White went back to the bench. It’s been beautiful old school style Celtics team basketball ever since.

[Fencer reregistered]

This article praises White's footwork when defending. But it doesn't address my thought that White's footwork seems unusual at any time.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/28/22994411/boston-celtics-on-ball-defense-efficiency-nba-pest-annoying-marcus-smart-derrick-white

... he has arguably been Boston’s most incessant (and effective) on-ball defender since his arrival at the trade deadline. His feet are rarely not moving; he’s a textbook arm-flailer; his defensive slides are staccato in nature. If he fails to stay in front of an opponent, something has gone terribly wrong.

[Floody100]

.

[Parasite]

I’ll be kind and just say he’s been less than impressive.

[JR Hawks]

White's not even a rotation level player. Stunning how much we gave up for him.

[Garbanzo]

White is a great player
He has lost confidence in his shot

Ime is the one who needs to Tell him to keep shoting.

[hugepatsfan]

Bad shooting is obviously not ideal. Non-shooting is unplayable. I know there was one play last night where the Celtics were swinging the ball around and a mic picked up someone saying "he's got to ****ing shoot that". I THINK it was White in the corner it was referring to, but even if it wasn't on that play the point still stands. You can't pass up good shots. It Fs up the whole flow of the offense. It forces someone into a usually worse shot which messes with their rhythm and timing.

I'll live with a guy going 1-10 from 3 if they're all good shots over someone passing up open looks to dribble into no man's land. White does a lot of great things on the court so he can play for my team any day even if he's shooting poorly. Much like Smart in that regard. But if he's afraid to shoot at all, then he Fs up the flow of the offense and needs to sit.