Celtics General Offseason (incl. Trade) Thread, 2019

[SmartWentCrazy]

Can’t wait to trade everything for AD then spend the year worrying about if he’ll stay and if we traded away the future for nothing.

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

[Edug27]

Can’t wait to trade everything for AD then spend the year worrying about if he’ll stay and if we traded away the future for nothing.

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

Both extremely low. So it’s pick your poison.

[Ed Pinkney]

Can’t wait to trade everything for AD then spend the year worrying about if he’ll stay and if we traded away the future for nothing.

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

[K For Three]

Can’t wait to trade everything for AD then spend the year worrying about if he’ll stay and if we traded away the future for nothing.

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

If we lose Kyrie I would be suprised if Wyc was OK with giving up Tatum too.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

[Edug27]

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

If Kyrie stays, then I’ll take my chances with AD resigning

[SmartWentCrazy]

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

If we lose Kyrie I would be suprised if Wyc was OK with giving up Tatum too.

They likely wont, its far too risky. I would, but I dont have to bear the costs of tanking if/when he leaves

[Edug27]

Opposed to hoping Tatum becomes a franchise player?

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

If we lose Kyrie I would be suprised if Wyc was OK with giving up Tatum too.

Right. It’s either getting AD to play with Kyrie, or moving on from AD.. dont listen to anyone who tells you different.

[Ed Pinkney]

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

[SmartWentCrazy]

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

I think Im with you on this

[Edug27]

The counter would be the chance Tatum consistently becomes what we saw in last years playoffs >>>>>>>> chance that Davis re-signs.

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

Tatum will be good. Derozan is good. But Toronto made the right risk in my eyes trading for a superstar talent in Kawhi.

[MagicBagley18]

Isiah Thomas was on "First Things First" this morning talking about Kyrie, and he pretty much stated what I've been saying for awhile now. Yes, Kyrie has things to learn about being a leader, and he will improve with time and experience. But there were also some dudes in the locker room that didn't want to be led... especially by Kyrie. Rozier mentioned many times he was competing with Kyrie and gunnin' for his spot. Jaylen had his own issues with finding his role in the offense.

IFFFF, and that's a big if, Kyrie is open to returning to Boston, then Danny needs to remove anyone from that locker room that does not want to be led by Kyrie. The team needs to be built AROUND Kyrie (and hopefully AD). A roster full of players that compliment him and personalities that blend well with his. Kyrie needs vets that are secure in their roles and are consistent in what they bring day in and day out. Players who understand the pecking order.

Because at the end of the day, as Isiah stated, KYRIE IS THE UNIQUE TALENT HERE. He is the star player with an elite skill set. Dudes like Rozier and Jaylen are replaceable.

Now, with all of that said, Kyrie has shown one big thing to me this year.... He's not a number 1. In order to be the best with Kyrie, you need a player in here that he gets along with and is superior to him. He's an ideal #2 option on a team.

This sums up exactly how I feel about the situation and you articulated it much better than I ever could. Agree with all this. Kyrie had a lot of flaws this year and he sucked against the bucks but he could have been general patton and rozier wouldn’t have followed him.

[Darthlukey]

Ive said this multiple times now, but the chance that AD re-signs >>> the chance Tatum develops into an AD esque talent

If we lose Kyrie I would be suprised if Wyc was OK with giving up Tatum too.

Right. It’s either getting AD to play with Kyrie, or moving on from AD.. dont listen to anyone who tells you different.

This for sure, there is no point in emptying the warchest for ad without Kyrie.

[Ed Pinkney]

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

I think Im with you on this

Without Irving, does this make Davis less likely to re-sign? Seems to be the comment consensus doesn't it. This is probably why I am pro "keep the young guys, hope they blossom and hope that Horford and Hayward can keep them closer to the top of the East while they do". It would be nice to see the Celtics develop another long term All Star from day one like Pierce.

The chance that player turns into a top 25 talent ever <<< the chance he re-signs

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

Tatum will be good. Derozan is good. But Toronto made the right risk in my eyes trading for a superstar talent in Kawhi.

Even if it is only for a year and they lose relatively convincingly to the Bucks? Toronto is slightly different in that all they really gave up was a flawed, borderline All Star who had already reached his ceiling. Giving up Tatum or Brown plus other valuable assets, watching Davis walk in a year and then seeing the assets you gave up blossom on another team would be a tough pill to swallow.

[Ed Pinkney]

Isiah Thomas was on "First Things First" this morning talking about Kyrie, and he pretty much stated what I've been saying for awhile now. Yes, Kyrie has things to learn about being a leader, and he will improve with time and experience. But there were also some dudes in the locker room that didn't want to be led... especially by Kyrie. Rozier mentioned many times he was competing with Kyrie and gunnin' for his spot. Jaylen had his own issues with finding his role in the offense.

IFFFF, and that's a big if, Kyrie is open to returning to Boston, then Danny needs to remove anyone from that locker room that does not want to be led by Kyrie. The team needs to be built AROUND Kyrie (and hopefully AD). A roster full of players that compliment him and personalities that blend well with his. Kyrie needs vets that are secure in their roles and are consistent in what they bring day in and day out. Players who understand the pecking order.

Because at the end of the day, as Isiah stated, KYRIE IS THE UNIQUE TALENT HERE. He is the star player with an elite skill set. Dudes like Rozier and Jaylen are replaceable.

Now, with all of that said, Kyrie has shown one big thing to me this year.... He's not a number 1. In order to be the best with Kyrie, you need a player in here that he gets along with and is superior to him. He's an ideal #2 option on a team.

This sums up exactly how I feel about the situation and you articulated it much better than I ever could. Agree with all this. Kyrie had a lot of flaws this year and he sucked against the bucks but he could have been general patton and rozier wouldn’t have followed him.

I also agree with a lot of this, and this is why Danny, Brad, Wyc etc have such a tough situation to navigate. Getting the other long term star who is superior to pair him with is going to be difficult though, and also no guarantee it makes them better than the Bucks to be honest. I'm also very unsure if Irving's "unique talent" is good enough to tie your franchise to. The sample size is very small and very specific to playing second banana to the best player in the league.

From a personal perspective, I also don't enjoy the Irving experience very much as a fan. Both with him as an individual and stylistically as a basketball player. Shoot first, over dribbling guards who are at their peak are average at defense, are not my cup of tea.

Really seems like a low floor, high ceiling situation to me. An Irving/Davis/Horford/Hayward based team could be pretty special, and could be good enough next season to push for a championship and get Davis to sign a new deal. And while a lot of it is probably unfounded nonsense and exaggeration, there is certainly enough smoke around Irving that it could also fail pretty spectacularly too and Davis walks.

[BRUNiNHO91]

If we lose Kyrie I would be suprised if Wyc was OK with giving up Tatum too.

Right. It’s either getting AD to play with Kyrie, or moving on from AD.. dont listen to anyone who tells you different.

This for sure, there is no point in emptying the warchest for ad without Kyrie.

If that was the case, I would try to trade a Brown based package for Bradley Beal..salaries would be tough to match without adding Smart though.

Smart, Beal, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Bring back Mook and Hayward off the bench. There are so many ways we could move forward without AD and Kyrie and still compete at a very high level. A few teams like the Wiz, Pistons, OKC, Heat, Cavs who are pretty much stuck in no man's land would probably play ball and sell low on a few guys like Love, Griffin or maybe smaller role players like James Johnson, Waitrs, Winslow, Roberson, Tristan T..to name a few. Ainge has a billion ways to go to build a solid roster.

[djFan71]

Right. It’s either getting AD to play with Kyrie, or moving on from AD.. dont listen to anyone who tells you different.

This for sure, there is no point in emptying the warchest for ad without Kyrie.

If that was the case, I would try to trade a Brown based package for Bradley Beal..salaries would be tough to match without adding Smart though.

Smart, Beal, Tatum, Horford, Baynes. Bring back Mook and Hayward off the bench. There are so many ways we could move forward without AD and Kyrie and still compete at a very high level. A few teams like the Wiz, Pistons, OKC, Heat, Cavs who are pretty much stuck in no man's land would probably play ball and sell low on a few guys like Love, Griffin or maybe smaller role players like James Johnson, Waitrs, Winslow, Roberson, Tristan T..to name a few. Ainge has a billion ways to go to build a solid roster.

You could always try the approach of resign/match Terry for Smart money. Then package Jaylen, Terry, Yabu for Beal when the restrictions end.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Top 25 ever is a pretty high bar, Tatum's ceiling is still pretty damn high too. I guess I have much lower confidence that he re-signs than some. I also don't think Irving is worth keeping, even with Davis on board.

I think Im with you on this

Without Irving, does this make Davis less likely to re-sign? Seems to be the comment consensus doesn't it. This is probably why I am pro "keep the young guys, hope they blossom and hope that Horford and Hayward can keep them closer to the top of the East while they do". It would be nice to see the Celtics develop another long term All Star from day one like Pierce.

I dont think losing Kyrie materially impacts Davis. The Lakers, Clippers and Knicks are looking to fill their free max spots this summer and I dont think theyll have cap space entering next summer.

Davis hasnt played for an upper-echelon winning team in his conference, nor has he played in front of a rabid fan base. A deep playoff run would absolutely influence AD, as would a lack of options come summer. Worst case, you can still recover significant value by the deadline because many teams will still be interested.

[Dannyboy36]

Isiah Thomas was on "First Things First" this morning talking about Kyrie, and he pretty much stated what I've been saying for awhile now. Yes, Kyrie has things to learn about being a leader, and he will improve with time and experience. But there were also some dudes in the locker room that didn't want to be led... especially by Kyrie. Rozier mentioned many times he was competing with Kyrie and gunnin' for his spot. Jaylen had his own issues with finding his role in the offense.

IFFFF, and that's a big if, Kyrie is open to returning to Boston, then Danny needs to remove anyone from that locker room that does not want to be led by Kyrie. The team needs to be built AROUND Kyrie (and hopefully AD). A roster full of players that compliment him and personalities that blend well with his. Kyrie needs vets that are secure in their roles and are consistent in what they bring day in and day out. Players who understand the pecking order.

Because at the end of the day, as Isiah stated, KYRIE IS THE UNIQUE TALENT HERE. He is the star player with an elite skill set. Dudes like Rozier and Jaylen are replaceable.

Now, with all of that said, Kyrie has shown one big thing to me this year.... He's not a number 1. In order to be the best with Kyrie, you need a player in here that he gets along with and is superior to him. He's an ideal #2 option on a team.

This sums up exactly how I feel about the situation and you articulated it much better than I ever could. Agree with all this. Kyrie had a lot of flaws this year and he sucked against the bucks but he could have been general patton and rozier wouldn’t have followed him.[/quote

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if Stevens is his job and actually HAD some hierarchy. But it’s no excuse to stab your teammates in the back. If Celts are bringing him back I hope they at least consider another coach.

[Celts17Pride]

Isiah Thomas was on "First Things First" this morning talking about Kyrie, and he pretty much stated what I've been saying for awhile now. Yes, Kyrie has things to learn about being a leader, and he will improve with time and experience. But there were also some dudes in the locker room that didn't want to be led... especially by Kyrie. Rozier mentioned many times he was competing with Kyrie and gunnin' for his spot. Jaylen had his own issues with finding his role in the offense.

IFFFF, and that's a big if, Kyrie is open to returning to Boston, then Danny needs to remove anyone from that locker room that does not want to be led by Kyrie. The team needs to be built AROUND Kyrie (and hopefully AD). A roster full of players that compliment him and personalities that blend well with his. Kyrie needs vets that are secure in their roles and are consistent in what they bring day in and day out. Players who understand the pecking order.

Because at the end of the day, as Isiah stated, KYRIE IS THE UNIQUE TALENT HERE. He is the star player with an elite skill set. Dudes like Rozier and Jaylen are replaceable.

Now, with all of that said, Kyrie has shown one big thing to me this year.... He's not a number 1. In order to be the best with Kyrie, you need a player in here that he gets along with and is superior to him. He's an ideal #2 option on a team.

Kyrie the victim!

Yep that's what the Celtics should do is listen to Isiah Thomas.