It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[keevsnick1]

Let zarren and ainge handle the money they will dump kemba and won’t cost 2 firsts. It’s not like they made these deals and didn’t understand the repercussions of the cap. We got enough issues with player development than to sit around and bitch over the mathematics.

Without considering the money it's kind of hard for us to offer anything worth reading on the player/roster development side. How can any of us intelligently discuss roster moves without considering the financial implications behind them?

That’s fine but sitting here and saying how **** we are over the next x amount of years without knowing what’s gonna happen this offseason is wrong. Literally ainge and zarren understand what needs to be done and I’m sure the move they made today were done with that in mind.

The roster is also set this season and the player development comes down to giving guys on the roster minutes- Langford, Pritchard, rob etc. not really much to figure out there right ? Like they have to play now as it’s a number crunch. We literally just sent 3 guys out to avoid the tax and play them.

Intelligently discuss the roster- sure, but saying how **** they without knowing what’s going to happen is putting the cart way before the horse

Ya I don't see any reason just to have blind faith in the front office. Sure, those guys have performed well at their jobs, but they make plenty of mistakes too and cap management/ team building analysis are backbones of nba fandom. Its half the fun.

You never know whats gonna happen in the future, you can only ever make decisions on what you know now and what you think is possible. based off that the teams in a tough, but not impossible spot. All it takes is one player leap, one awesome draft pick, one great signing and everything can change.

[RB34]

WE TRADED THEIS FOR WHO?!?!?!??

[moonie_mcgee]

If they didn’t need to get rid of Theis why did they then?

He was going into free agency and Ainge went with a younger, taller, less expensive alternative. See Belichick.

[keevsnick1]

If they didn’t need to get rid of Theis why did they then?

He was going into free agency and Ainge went with a younger, taller, less expensive alternative. See Belichick.

again, it was pretty much 100% to get under the tax.

[themoneyteam2]

If they didn’t need to get rid of Theis why did they then?

He was going into free agency and Ainge went with a younger, taller, less expensive alternative. See Belichick.

Who is also going to free agency after 30 games. That’s the issue lol. Trade an expiring for an expiring.

I understand it was to get under the tax.

[pac213up]

Hate NBA salary cap. Prevents teams from getting better and forces super teams.

I don't mind salary cap. I do hate max contracts though. Some of the top players should be eating a larger percent of the cap.

[sam_I_am]

I don’t covet a single player traded today. Vukevic might have brought some fire power to center spot but I don’t want a center who can’t defend locked in for 2 years at that salary. I wanted Gordon because it would be fun to see more defense and athleticism but the price was too high and he doesn’t get us anywhere special. Oladipo is a bad fit and George Hill is less exciting than Fournier. Norman Powell might be better 2 way player than Fournier but I like Evan’s height better.

So given nothing great happened today, Ainge didn’t really miss out. If you think we should have emptied cupboard to bring Vukevic and Gordon and traded Smart to do it so that we could be a “contender” this year.....I just don’t think it’s a good plan.

So we lost our TPE but Danny has a backup plan. Smart and TT combined are a 24 million expiring contract and combined with a young player ( PP, Langford or Nesmith ) can easily get us a better player than the TPE could have.

Losing Theis hurts. We are worse for that, no doubt. But now the team can let Timelord shine and either become the stud we need or at least become a bigger asset in a future trade.

Finally, if Evan F ends up being a rental .... we lost nothing of value and we still have Nesmith and Langford as understudies.

This could be a lost year. However, we did get to ECF last year with a lesser roster. TT and RW could pop. Fournier might not bring Hayward’s all around game but he might do what we actually needed from Hayward last year which was to just shoot the ball when he’s wide open.

One more thing.....we have more money to offer players bought out than our competitors. Maybe LaMarcus and Drummond would rather play in LA and Miami.....but Danny can pay them more. Either will be massive upgrade from Theis on this current roster if we can sign one.

[Feed Your Head]

Fournier gives the Jays someone they will be able to trust to take and make big shots. This move will make them better players, IMO.

[djFan71]

I don’t covet a single player traded today. Vukevic might have brought some fire power to center spot but I don’t want a center who can’t defend locked in for 2 years at that salary. I wanted Gordon because it would be fun to see more defense and athleticism but the price was too high and he doesn’t get us anywhere special. Oladipo is a bad fit and George Hill is less exciting than Fournier. Norman Powell might be better 2 way player than Fournier but I like Evan’s height better.

So given nothing great happened today, Ainge didn’t really miss out. If you think we should have emptied cupboard to bring Vukevic and Gordon and traded Smart to do it so that we could be a “contender” this year.....I just don’t think it’s a good plan.

So we lost our TPE but Danny has a backup plan. Smart and TT combined are a 24 million expiring contract and combined with a young player ( PP, Langford or Nesmith ) can easily get us a better player than the TPE could have.

Losing Theis hurts. We are worse for that, no doubt. But now the team can let Timelord shine and either become the stud we need or at least become a bigger asset in a future trade.

Finally, if Evan F ends up being a rental .... we lost nothing of value and we still have Nesmith and Langford as understudies.

This could be a lost year. However, we did get to ECF last year with a lesser roster. TT and RW could pop. Fournier might not bring Hayward’s all around game but he might do what we actually needed from Hayward last year which was to just shoot the ball when he’s wide open.

One more thing.....we have more money to offer players bought out than our competitors. Maybe LaMarcus and Drummond would rather play in LA and Miami.....but Danny can pay them more. Either will be massive upgrade from Theis on this current roster if we can sign one.

Good post.

We can actually even use the remaining TPE to help facilitate any Smart/TT type deals as well.
I don't think we can offer more money to buyouts than anyone at this point, though. We're like $1.84M under the tax. We're not going above that for sure.

[Captain_Caveman]

Fournier gives the Jays someone they will be able to trust to take and make big shots. This move will make them better players, IMO.

Teams are swarming our stars, especially Tatum.

[zoyathedestroya]

Not one writeup on Wagner or Kornet from any media outlets

Can't be more official than this:

https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-acquire-gafford-and-hutchison

[keevsnick1]

For what its worth its have been slowly talking myself off a cliff all afternoon.

We will still have a TPE of a little over 11 million left (conveniently just enough to fit Larry Nance this summer). We'll also have a TPE of 5 million from the Theis trade.

We'll have the expiring contracts of Smart and Thompson at 14.34 and 9.72 million to build with this summer.

We still have all our first round picks and young guys. So still have assets

Robert Williams will now get a lot more minutes (this alone makes it worth it).

Fournier will help our bench offense and maybe jolt the entire team awake.

Teague is gone so that opens up some more Pritchard minutes.

Maybe one of Nesmith or Langford pops the second half.

Maybe Kemba can play out of his mind these last 28 games and he rebuilds his value.

At the least we should be able to reduce the workload on Tatum/Brown.\

Also Mo Wagner is 6'11 and Luke Kornet is 7'2 so we have a few big men that arent small! Tho they probably don't play much.

[djFan71]

Not one writeup on Wagner or Kornet from any media outlets

Can't be more official than this:

https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-acquire-gafford-and-hutchison

and center Moe Wagner to Boston.

The complete trade details include Boston acquiring Luke Kornet from Chicago, with Daniel Theis and Javonte Green going from Boston to Chicago.

Kinda made me tear up a bit. Beautiful writing.

[Captain_Caveman]

[MagicBagley18]

Without considering the money it's kind of hard for us to offer anything worth reading on the player/roster development side. How can any of us intelligently discuss roster moves without considering the financial implications behind them?

That’s fine but sitting here and saying how **** we are over the next x amount of years without knowing what’s gonna happen this offseason is wrong. Literally ainge and zarren understand what needs to be done and I’m sure the move they made today were done with that in mind.

The roster is also set this season and the player development comes down to giving guys on the roster minutes- Langford, Pritchard, rob etc. not really much to figure out there right ? Like they have to play now as it’s a number crunch. We literally just sent 3 guys out to avoid the tax and play them.

Intelligently discuss the roster- sure, but saying how **** they without knowing what’s going to happen is putting the cart way before the horse

Ya I don't see any reason just to have blind faith in the front office. Sure, those guys have performed well at their jobs, but they make plenty of mistakes too and cap management/ team building analysis are backbones of nba fandom. Its half the fun.

You never know whats gonna happen in the future, you can only ever make decisions on what you know now and what you think is possible. based off that the teams in a tough, but not impossible spot. All it takes is one player leap, one awesome draft pick, one great signing and everything can change.

I mean it’s hard for you to sit here and tell me you don’t have blind faith in a front office while simultaneously talking about 10 year windows with 2 star players who would have to commit to same said front office

[Feed Your Head]

Fournier gives the Jays someone they will be able to trust to take and make big shots. This move will make them better players, IMO.

Teams are swarming our stars, especially Tatum.

Tatum gets like all of the defensive attention from other teams, basically gets 2-3 guys paying attention to him when he has the ball, it’s crazy how little room he has to operate. Jaylen draws a second man whenever he drives to the hoop, a guy like Fournier as opposed to Semi/Javonte will make defenses that much more hesitant, and with Jaylens ridiculous first step, will make a pretty decent difference.

This move obviously doesn’t make this team even close to a real contender, but this teams future is all about the leap Tatum, and to a lesser extent Jaylen make. And I genuinely believe this will make them better players.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Not one writeup on Wagner or Kornet from any media outlets

Can't be more official than this:

https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-acquire-gafford-and-hutchison

I mean something like, “In Kornet, the Celtics acquire a player who shot 35 percent from three as a Knick” or “his former coach praised Wagner for his energy level and enthusiasm” - like, zero analysis or focus on either player, which speaks volumes. Two afterthoughts.

[moonie_mcgee]

We used the TPE, at least. Hype aside, they’re almost never used - and if you look at the players making 27.5 or less next season, pickings were slim. Our only hope would have been absorbing a free agent..

Still, this feels like it was the time to strike, to overpay if necessary. Gordon, Collins, Ball are difference makers. You can’t give up two 1sts for Gordon/Fournier? How many young players do you need? And it’s much easier to find a player who gives you high caliber defense like Smart than a big with the offensive versatility of Collins.

We’re just stuck now with no way to get better but internal development. Are we going into the tax next year for Fournier? We have no filler contracts to pair with young players, we burned the TPE, we apparently can’t afford to trade Smart, Kemba is currently dead weight.

We are going into the tax whether we resign Fournier or not with Tatum's deal kicking in. Which means that we will probably resign Fournier, or Danny would not have spent 1/2 the TPE on him. I really like the Fournier addition and hope that is the plan to resign him.
We still have 11 mil of that TPE left, the 5 mil TPE from Kanter's trade and I maybe a TPE coming out of the Theis trsde, not sure about that. Depends on how they structure it.

I do hate losing Theis, but now Timelord can get more minutes which is good. Don't give up on Wagner to early guys. He is 6'11 and can hit the 3 decently. We also have time to see what PP, Langford, Nesmith can do now. So Wagner, Kornet, Semi and Fournier are all FA's next season, and we don't have to think about the repeater tax until after Kemba's contract is over. I guess this leaves us with:

Kemba, Prichard, Edwards, (Waters)
Fournier, Smart, Langford
Brown, Nesmith,
Tatum, Semi, G. Will
Thompson, Timelord, Wagner, Kornet (Fall)

Also, Kemba and Thompson are both 30, and the next oldest player is Smart at 27. Seems like a team to grow with. I am left with one question. If we are lookiong to sign a player off a buy out, who do we release to make room on the roster?

I agree Wagner will be in the rotation.
And I'd chose Semi as we have GWill.
Semi will be alright.

[keevsnick1]

That’s fine but sitting here and saying how **** we are over the next x amount of years without knowing what’s gonna happen this offseason is wrong. Literally ainge and zarren understand what needs to be done and I’m sure the move they made today were done with that in mind.

The roster is also set this season and the player development comes down to giving guys on the roster minutes- Langford, Pritchard, rob etc. not really much to figure out there right ? Like they have to play now as it’s a number crunch. We literally just sent 3 guys out to avoid the tax and play them.

Intelligently discuss the roster- sure, but saying how **** they without knowing what’s going to happen is putting the cart way before the horse

Ya I don't see any reason just to have blind faith in the front office. Sure, those guys have performed well at their jobs, but they make plenty of mistakes too and cap management/ team building analysis are backbones of nba fandom. Its half the fun.

You never know whats gonna happen in the future, you can only ever make decisions on what you know now and what you think is possible. based off that the teams in a tough, but not impossible spot. All it takes is one player leap, one awesome draft pick, one great signing and everything can change.

I mean it’s hard for you to sit here and tell me you don’t have blind faith in a front office while simultaneously talking about 10 year windows with 2 star players who would have to commit to same said front office

Quite the opposite. I simply thought that all things considered the Harden path was riskier and less likely to lead to a title overall. In other words I was advocating the path I thought the front office was less likely to eff up. Its all an odds play.

They could still eff this one up, that was always a possibility.

The most likely outcome has probably always been that NEITHER approach gets you a title.

[djFan71]

Fournier gives the Jays someone they will be able to trust to take and make big shots. This move will make them better players, IMO.

Teams are swarming our stars, especially Tatum.

Tatum gets like all of the defensive attention from other teams, basically gets 2-3 guys paying attention to him when he has the ball, it’s crazy how little room he has to operate. Jaylen draws a second man whenever he drives to the hoop, a guy like Fournier as opposed to Semi/Javonte will make defenses that much more hesitant, and with Jaylens ridiculous first step, will make a pretty decent defense.

This move obviously doesn’t make this team even close to a real contender, but this teams future is all about the leap Tatum, and to a lesser extent Jaylen make. And I genuinely believe this will make them better players.

It definitely makes their life more manageable. They have some more breathing room, and also more margin for error now. I'm kinda coming around on Danny's "don't choose a path" thing. Maybe it actually was pretty smart. Developing Jayson & Jaylen on a winning team is probably more valuable than having them endure multiple seasons like the last few months.

We ultimately traded a good rotation center which we have 2 more of (of varying quality) for another scorer/facilitator we were really lacking. If Fournier stays on a similar $ extension, that's pretty good overall.