Craft your 2022-23 Celtics Roster – (20-Man Off-Season)

[165bows]

PP isn't worth a first round pick though so you can't just swap that out and it still be a legit proposal. Too limited a player. He's someone with such limited trade value that it doesn't make sense to put him in deals. You just keep him for further depth since no one is assigning any value to him in a deal.

You are so adamant about that it's funny. It also presupposes Norm Powell is worth a first round pick, which is pretty doubtful on that contract. 75% of production for 20% of the price is a super common NBA deal.

It's just silly talk. Pritchard plays 14 minutes a game. He's not someone with seemingly untapped potential. He's an 8th/9th man at best. In most playoff matchups it's even a struggle to play him that much because of his size. No one is giving up a 1st for him. Considering how high the bust rate is for picks in the 20s, he was a solid pick for us there. But no one takes the chance on such a low ceiling player for guy like that already halfway through his rookie deal. You can just sign someone like Jevon Carter. Guys like him just don't return 1st round picks.

Powell has a very long contract so some teams might opt out of acquiring him altogether. But he's such a legit player that of the teams who don't someone is pushing the price up to a 1st.

It's not some untapped potential. Pritchard was a demonstrably better player compared to Powell at that age. PP on a mediocre team with a need at his spot would put up good solid numbers and be a one dimensional small scorer guy like Powell - neither of which is all that valuable.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=powelno01&p1yrfrom=2018&player_id2=pritcpa01&p2yrfrom=2022

[BK_2020]

You are so adamant about that it's funny. It also presupposes Norm Powell is worth a first round pick, which is pretty doubtful on that contract. 75% of production for 20% of the price is a super common NBA deal.

It's just silly talk. Pritchard plays 14 minutes a game. He's not someone with seemingly untapped potential. He's an 8th/9th man at best. In most playoff matchups it's even a struggle to play him that much because of his size. No one is giving up a 1st for him. Considering how high the bust rate is for picks in the 20s, he was a solid pick for us there. But no one takes the chance on such a low ceiling player for guy like that already halfway through his rookie deal. You can just sign someone like Jevon Carter. Guys like him just don't return 1st round picks.

Powell has a very long contract so some teams might opt out of acquiring him altogether. But he's such a legit player that of the teams who don't someone is pushing the price up to a 1st.

It's not some untapped potential. Pritchard was a demonstrably better player compared to Powell at that age. PP on a mediocre team with a need at his spot would put up good solid numbers and be a one dimensional small scorer guy like Powell - neither of which is all that valuable.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=powelno01&p1yrfrom=2018&player_id2=pritcpa01&p2yrfrom=2022

Norman Powell is 6'4 with 6'11 wingspan, and has handles, burst and finishing ability that PP simply lacks. Norman Powell's game is scalable in the sense that with more playing time he can increase his scoring volume accordingly. Pritchard's game is less scalable since he is bottlenecked much harder by factors other than playing time. Pritchard can hit wide open shots at a very good rate, and that's very valuable. But it's simply not true to say he is just Norman Powell who's not getting the same opportunities. Pritchard can't make the opportunities, or what would be a scoring opportunity for a Norman Powell is not a scoring opportunity for Pritchard.

Below is one possession where Pritchard has an open shot but he passes it up because what would be an open shot for a Powell or even a Hauser is simply not an open shot for Pritchard. Then he dribbles it for several seconds of futility and the play resets with Tatum having the ball with 9 seconds left on the clock. This is the typical Pritchard possession.

https://webm.red/OlLJ

Then a play showing what happens when Pritchard gets the ball inside. What would be an easy layup for a Norman Powell is an extremely difficult scoring opportunity for little Payton.

https://webm.red/ywgL

There was a recent article that articulated my thoughts with statistics support.
https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-stats-notebook-the-celtics-and-the-payton-pritchard-conundrum
Basically, there is practically no one in the NBA worse than Pritchard at creating scoring opportunities.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Considering the additional 2021-22 luxury tax LAC paid to acquire Powell and Covington, I can't see them moving Powell. I can see them trying to move guys like Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard and/or Reggie Jackson in a Mike Conley or Malcolm Brogdon trade, with Terrance Mann being the main trade piece.

The Clippers may be one of the few teams that would take back Theis in a deal.

[165bows]

It's just silly talk. Pritchard plays 14 minutes a game. He's not someone with seemingly untapped potential. He's an 8th/9th man at best. In most playoff matchups it's even a struggle to play him that much because of his size. No one is giving up a 1st for him. Considering how high the bust rate is for picks in the 20s, he was a solid pick for us there. But no one takes the chance on such a low ceiling player for guy like that already halfway through his rookie deal. You can just sign someone like Jevon Carter. Guys like him just don't return 1st round picks.

Powell has a very long contract so some teams might opt out of acquiring him altogether. But he's such a legit player that of the teams who don't someone is pushing the price up to a 1st.

It's not some untapped potential. Pritchard was a demonstrably better player compared to Powell at that age. PP on a mediocre team with a need at his spot would put up good solid numbers and be a one dimensional small scorer guy like Powell - neither of which is all that valuable.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=powelno01&p1yrfrom=2018&player_id2=pritcpa01&p2yrfrom=2022

Norman Powell is 6'4 with 6'11 wingspan, and has handles, burst and finishing ability that PP simply lacks. Norman Powell's game is scalable in the sense that with more playing time he can increase his scoring volume accordingly. Pritchard's game is less scalable since he is bottlenecked much harder by factors other than playing time. Pritchard can hit wide open shots at a very good rate, and that's very valuable. But it's simply not true to say he is just Norman Powell who's not getting the same opportunities. Pritchard can't make the opportunities, or what would be a scoring opportunity for a Norman Powell is not a scoring opportunity for Pritchard.

Below is one possession where Pritchard has an open shot but he passes it up because what would be an open shot for a Powell or even a Hauser is simply not an open shot for Pritchard. Then he dribbles it for several seconds of futility and the play resets with Tatum having the ball with 9 seconds left on the clock. This is the typical Pritchard possession.

https://webm.red/OlLJ

Then a play showing what happens when Pritchard gets the ball inside. What would be an easy layup for a Norman Powell is an extremely difficult scoring opportunity for little Payton.

https://webm.red/ywgL

There was a recent article that articulated my thoughts with statistics support.
https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-stats-notebook-the-celtics-and-the-payton-pritchard-conundrum
Basically, there is practically no one in the NBA worse than Pritchard at creating scoring opportunities.

Nevertheless they operate in the same niche as little scorers that are *** at creating for others. Boston's bigs would make Powell look bad in terms of creating shots (edit: for others), which is what this team needs. I'll agree that Powell is a better scorer at this point in time but small guys that don't create for others and have their sole value as scoring do not age well, and taking his last 1-2 years of that deal is a bad idea - and likely paying to take negative value. Which again is a bad idea.

What this team needs is well-rounded playmakers who can put their scorers (J+J) in the right spots, hence why the team brought in White, not one of the plethora of 1-dimensional scorer guys out there.

[BK_2020]

While it is true that Powell's last two years will not be very good value, this team is contending right now and if there ever was a time to overpay the next couple years would be it. Jaylen's bargain contract ends after 2023-24 season. Horford's productive time may not last even next season.
I agree with you and the other poster above both that someone better than Powell is preferable for that overpay and that Powell is probably not even available.

[CelticFaninLBC]

It's not some untapped potential. Pritchard was a demonstrably better player compared to Powell at that age. PP on a mediocre team with a need at his spot would put up good solid numbers and be a one dimensional small scorer guy like Powell - neither of which is all that valuable.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=powelno01&p1yrfrom=2018&player_id2=pritcpa01&p2yrfrom=2022

Norman Powell is 6'4 with 6'11 wingspan, and has handles, burst and finishing ability that PP simply lacks. Norman Powell's game is scalable in the sense that with more playing time he can increase his scoring volume accordingly. Pritchard's game is less scalable since he is bottlenecked much harder by factors other than playing time. Pritchard can hit wide open shots at a very good rate, and that's very valuable. But it's simply not true to say he is just Norman Powell who's not getting the same opportunities. Pritchard can't make the opportunities, or what would be a scoring opportunity for a Norman Powell is not a scoring opportunity for Pritchard.

Below is one possession where Pritchard has an open shot but he passes it up because what would be an open shot for a Powell or even a Hauser is simply not an open shot for Pritchard. Then he dribbles it for several seconds of futility and the play resets with Tatum having the ball with 9 seconds left on the clock. This is the typical Pritchard possession.

https://webm.red/OlLJ

Then a play showing what happens when Pritchard gets the ball inside. What would be an easy layup for a Norman Powell is an extremely difficult scoring opportunity for little Payton.

https://webm.red/ywgL

There was a recent article that articulated my thoughts with statistics support.
https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-stats-notebook-the-celtics-and-the-payton-pritchard-conundrum
Basically, there is practically no one in the NBA worse than Pritchard at creating scoring opportunities.

Nevertheless they operate in the same niche as little scorers that are *** at creating for others. Boston's bigs would make Powell look bad in terms of creating shots (edit: for others), which is what this team needs. I'll agree that Powell is a better scorer at this point in time but small guys that don't create for others and have their sole value as scoring do not age well, and taking his last 1-2 years of that deal is a bad idea - and likely paying to take negative value. Which again is a bad idea.

What this team needs is well-rounded playmakers who can put their scorers (J+J) in the right spots, hence why the team brought in White, not one of the plethora of 1-dimensional scorer guys out there.

The Clippers only care about the next 2 years and Powell >>> PP.

[165bows]

Norman Powell is 6'4 with 6'11 wingspan, and has handles, burst and finishing ability that PP simply lacks. Norman Powell's game is scalable in the sense that with more playing time he can increase his scoring volume accordingly. Pritchard's game is less scalable since he is bottlenecked much harder by factors other than playing time. Pritchard can hit wide open shots at a very good rate, and that's very valuable. But it's simply not true to say he is just Norman Powell who's not getting the same opportunities. Pritchard can't make the opportunities, or what would be a scoring opportunity for a Norman Powell is not a scoring opportunity for Pritchard.

Below is one possession where Pritchard has an open shot but he passes it up because what would be an open shot for a Powell or even a Hauser is simply not an open shot for Pritchard. Then he dribbles it for several seconds of futility and the play resets with Tatum having the ball with 9 seconds left on the clock. This is the typical Pritchard possession.

https://webm.red/OlLJ

Then a play showing what happens when Pritchard gets the ball inside. What would be an easy layup for a Norman Powell is an extremely difficult scoring opportunity for little Payton.

https://webm.red/ywgL

There was a recent article that articulated my thoughts with statistics support.
https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-stats-notebook-the-celtics-and-the-payton-pritchard-conundrum
Basically, there is practically no one in the NBA worse than Pritchard at creating scoring opportunities.

Nevertheless they operate in the same niche as little scorers that are *** at creating for others. Boston's bigs would make Powell look bad in terms of creating shots (edit: for others), which is what this team needs. I'll agree that Powell is a better scorer at this point in time but small guys that don't create for others and have their sole value as scoring do not age well, and taking his last 1-2 years of that deal is a bad idea - and likely paying to take negative value. Which again is a bad idea.

What this team needs is well-rounded playmakers who can put their scorers (J+J) in the right spots, hence why the team brought in White, not one of the plethora of 1-dimensional scorer guys out there.

The Clippers only care about the next 2 years and Powell >>> PP.

I’d rather they sign Rubio personally.

[Larry_Russell]

Keep it simple

We need shooting off the bench. A guy who can get hot in the blink of an eye.
And our defense is more than capable of hiding.

TPE on Duncan Robinson and 2022 pick from Miami (27th)

Pushes the can out a little bit as theis, Nesmith and Robinson would allow for 36.75 million coming back in a trade)
Or just stay the course.

Smart
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Timelord
White
Grant
Pritchard

Still your top 8 (horford most likely a decline, but an increase from Tatum, Brown, Grant, Timelord, Pritchard expected)

Robinson becomes 9th man, a hot shooter off the bench for games when no one can make a bucket...which happens...or just a deadly floor spacer against teams that want to pack the defense out there. Confident Udoka makes him a better defender.

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/White
Tatum/Robinson/Nesmith
Horford/Grant
Timelord/Theis

Options to be able to bring over Yam or Begarin
Options on all 4 of Nic, Fitts, Hauser, Morgan
MLE and LLE
Miami pick
Boston 2nd rounder

Cheap depth should not be an issue

[BK_2020]

Robinson was DNP-CD behind a bunch of G-leaguers. Why not just play our G-leaguers instead of paying $19 mil. a year for the privilege of sitting him on the bench?
If Udoka can just make people better defenders then he should work that magic on Pritchard and Hauser.

[Hal14]

Robinson was DNP-CD behind a bunch of G-leaguers. Why not just play our G-leaguers instead of paying $19 mil. a year for the privilege of sitting him on the bench?
If Udoka can just make people better defenders then he should work that magic on Pritchard and Hauser.

Agreed. Robinson's 3 pt % has gone down each of the last 3 years. He signed big 5 year, $90 mil contract in summer of 2021, then his numbers went down across the board this season and then only played 12 mins a game in the playoffs.

I just don't think he offers good value for what he's getting paid.

Joe Harris is interesting. He's making basically the same amount as Robinson. But has posted slightly higher scoring numbers over the past few years, consistently higher 3 pt % over the past few yrs than robinson. I mean, Harris' 3 pt % numbers over the past 4 years is just bonkers. He's automatic. I just don't know if you want to have a guy making that kind of $ as a wing when we already have tatum and Brown. I mean, that's a big reason why we didn't sign Fournier. Knicks were willing to give him $18 / $19mil a year. We didn't want to pay that kind of $ for a wing when we already had Tatum and Brown, let alone a wing who isn't that good defensively (same is the case for Robinson and Harris. I feel like Harris might be slightly better defensively than the other 2, but it remains to be seen if Harris has dropoff next season as a shooter and/or defender after missing nearly the entire 2021-2022 season)

That's why I think more realistically, you go for a cheaper option like Josh Richardson or Josh Hart. Both guys who can shoot the ball, but also help you in other ways too - veterans, tough hard nosed players who can accept a supporting role off the bench.

I think the starting point for Brad this offseason is:

1) the draft (it's literally right after the finals end)
2) Use the TPE on someone like Richardson or Hart
3) Guarantee the rest of Al's contract for next season
4) Extend Grant

Then you go from there..

The sooner we make move number 2, the sooner we can potentially package that player up in a separate deal for a 3rd star..

[jmr07019]

If Ayton is available any interest ?

Would happily send out Rob for Ayton. Seems like that would be something Suns are interested in. Get a young productive starting center and then we could add in another piece (Grant or Pritch) and a pick.

I am kind of torn on that deal.

With perfect health, Timelord is superior defensively
With perfect health, Ayton is superior offensively.

Ayton has superior health.



I mean, I would not hate the deal at all and it is certainly intriguing, but potentially dangerous

I see it the otherway. Ayton is the safer play and would fit right in. You are paying a premium but you don't have to worry about games played every year.

[Larry_Russell]

Would happily send out Rob for Ayton. Seems like that would be something Suns are interested in. Get a young productive starting center and then we could add in another piece (Grant or Pritch) and a pick.

I am kind of torn on that deal.

With perfect health, Timelord is superior defensively
With perfect health, Ayton is superior offensively.

Ayton has superior health.



I mean, I would not hate the deal at all and it is certainly intriguing, but potentially dangerous

I see it the otherway. Ayton is the safer play and would fit right in. You are paying a premium but you don't have to worry about games played every year.

I probably should have been clearer with my dangerous thought.

Timelord does run the risk of missing 30 games every year and ayton doesnt.

But chemistry right now is on point. Trading timelord could hurt that.


But in a bubble, this team with a motivated to be away from booker ayton is better than timelord, offensively at least

[BK_2020]

Ayton's defensive numbers really dropped off for the final two years of his rookie contract, and he's always registered low block numbers for someone of his size and athleticism. He also gets very few FTA for someone his size.
He's also not been super durable either. More than Timelord but that's a pretty low bar.
I was high on him before CP3 got there for his defense, but not so sure anymore. I think he gets the 25% max somewhere, but not a guy I want Brad to go after.

[djFan71]

Robinson was DNP-CD behind a bunch of G-leaguers. Why not just play our G-leaguers instead of paying $19 mil. a year for the privilege of sitting him on the bench?
If Udoka can just make people better defenders then he should work that magic on Pritchard and Hauser.

Agreed. Robinson's 3 pt % has gone down each of the last 3 years. He signed big 5 year, $90 mil contract in summer of 2021, then his numbers went down across the board this season and then only played 12 mins a game in the playoffs.

I just don't think he offers good value for what he's getting paid.

Joe Harris is interesting. He's making basically the same amount as Robinson. But has posted slightly higher scoring numbers over the past few years, consistently higher 3 pt % over the past few yrs than robinson. I mean, Harris' 3 pt % numbers over the past 4 years is just bonkers. He's automatic. I just don't know if you want to have a guy making that kind of $ as a wing when we already have tatum and Brown. I mean, that's a big reason why we didn't sign Fournier. Knicks were willing to give him $18 / $19mil a year. We didn't want to pay that kind of $ for a wing when we already had Tatum and Brown, let alone a wing who isn't that good defensively (same is the case for Robinson and Harris. I feel like Harris might be slightly better defensively than the other 2, but it remains to be seen if Harris has dropoff next season as a shooter and/or defender after missing nearly the entire 2021-2022 season)

That's why I think more realistically, you go for a cheaper option like Josh Richardson or Josh Hart. Both guys who can shoot the ball, but also help you in other ways too - veterans, tough hard nosed players who can accept a supporting role off the bench.

I think the starting point for Brad this offseason is:

1) the draft (it's literally right after the finals end)
2) Use the TPE on someone like Richardson or Hart
3) Guarantee the rest of Al's contract for next season
4) Extend Grant

Then you go from there..

The sooner we make move number 2, the sooner we can potentially package that player up in a separate deal for a 3rd star..

Yeah, I was talking about Harris today, funnily. He is frustratingly just out of reach for the TPE and I don't know we have salary to trade for him that we want to give up. I think even cheaper (asset wise) options for TPE could be Alec Burks or Will Barton. Both bring the scoring and size but not necessarily great team D. But hopefully they can work with the system to be acceptable.

Burks/42 for Nesmith/53 saves NYK some money. Maybe you can't get 42? I dunno, but it feels close.
Not sure what the deal/motivation would be for DEN.
I like Burks a little better anyways, but would be happy with either.

Do that and maybe get SloMo for TPMLE and a vet min I'd be very happy.

[CelticFaninLBC]

This works in the trade checker.

BOS gets: Gobert, Marcus Morris & Reggie Jackson
LAC gets: Conely, Theis & Nesmith
Utah gets: Rob Williams, Derrick White, Terrance Mann, LAC pick swap, a BOS FRP and something like a $31 million TPE.

Maybe there's some defensive metric that shows Gobert's defense is overrated, but Gobert, Al, Tatum, Brown and Smart seems very scary defensively, and it's a tougher and better rebounding group. Also, with the way Gobert rebounds and defends, Ime can go smaller with Tatum at the 4.

Projected Lineup
Starters: Gobert, Al, Tatum, Brown & Smart
Bench: G. Williams, Morris, R. Jackson, Pritchard, MLE Ring Chasing vet

This teams 3 biggest weaknesses are a 3rd scorer, rebounding and toughness. They get better rebounding with Gobert and more toughness with Gobert and Morris. I know some don't like Morris, but I wish Ime had someone like Morris to mix it up with Draymond Green in this series. They'll take a step back in playmaking and perimeter defense by losing Derrick White though.

[neno]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

[CelticsPride18]

KCP/TJ Warren/Gary Harris/Batum would be my top targets.

[hugepatsfan]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

[Larry_Russell]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

Yeah.

We need a PF who is strong enough to defend centers on a switch who can also shoot the 3 pointer.

Not alot of these dudes out there unfortunately.

[Hal14]

KCP/TJ Warren/Gary Harris/Batum would be my top targets.

Warren scares me with how bad his injury history is these past 2-3 yrs

Batum seems like he's destined to stay a clipper for the foreseeable future: https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/nicolas-batum-wants-to-finish-career-with-clippers

Harris - he could probably be a good pickup but i feel like maybe it would be redundant with him and white on the team. harris is just a worse version of white, no?

KCP would be good. Him, Josh Richardson and Josh Hart. All basically the same player - grab 1 of them with the TPE to help shore up the bench.