OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[165bows]

If salary/tax is such a concern Celtics should dump Jaden Springer. He's not worth 4 mil and is a worse player than Lonnie and always will be.

If the bold part were true, then why would another team agree to trade for him?

Yet you make it seem so easy..like you could just snap your fingers and trade him..

Also, clearly Brad thinks he is worth $4 mil. Otherwise, he wouldn't have traded for him a few months ago.

They're not that far apart in age.

They're about 4 years apart in age - that's a lot.

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This one isn’t a mystery - it’s because they liked Springer at the cost of a pair of seconds, a roster spot and $4M plus tax.

They also like Lonnie at a camp invite and a G league invite and zero guarantee money.

We all now Brad can keep things close to the best but this isn’t some mystery. We know the phrase - don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do?

You can actually do both with Brad and he said everything but that Lonnie’s getting an apartment with Baylor Scheierman in Maine for the winter.

And I like the idea of Lonnie but imo he’s a potential play like pretty much the whole back third of the roster.

[jmr07019]

If the bold part were true, then why would another team agree to trade for him?

Yet you make it seem so easy..like you could just snap your fingers and trade him..

Also, clearly Brad thinks he is worth $4 mil. Otherwise, he wouldn't have traded for him a few months ago.


They're about 4 years apart in age - that's a lot.

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This one isn’t a mystery - it’s because they liked Springer at the cost of a pair of seconds, a roster spot and $4M plus tax.

They also like Lonnie at a camp invite and a G league invite and zero guarantee money.

We all now Brad can keep things close to the best but this isn’t some mystery. We know the phrase - don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do?

You can actually do both with Brad and he said everything but that Lonnie’s getting an apartment with Baylor Scheierman in Maine for the winter.

And I like the idea of Lonnie but imo he’s a potential play like pretty much the whole back third of the roster.

I agree that Springer is more likely to make the roster than Lonnie but I don’t agree with the Celtics front office on this decision. Walker is a better player than our end of the rotation guys and I dont see that changing any time soon. At the end of the day it’s the bottom of rotation and isnt a big deal. The 10th man likely doesn’t see significant playoff playing time never mind the 13th.

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

[165bows]

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This one isn’t a mystery - it’s because they liked Springer at the cost of a pair of seconds, a roster spot and $4M plus tax.

They also like Lonnie at a camp invite and a G league invite and zero guarantee money.

We all now Brad can keep things close to the best but this isn’t some mystery. We know the phrase - don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do?

You can actually do both with Brad and he said everything but that Lonnie’s getting an apartment with Baylor Scheierman in Maine for the winter.

And I like the idea of Lonnie but imo he’s a potential play like pretty much the whole back third of the roster.

I agree that Springer is more likely to make the roster than Lonnie but I don’t agree with the Celtics front office on this decision. Walker is a better player than our end of the rotation guys and I dont see that changing any time soon. At the end of the day it’s the bottom of rotation and isnt a big deal. The 10th man likely doesn’t see significant playoff playing time never mind the 13th.

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

Sure there’s the tax piece (which I’ve been consistently bullish on their spending) but there’s also just the value of the flexibility of the spot being open.

Which I think Lonnie has to also beat that out, rather than Springer or whoever. Ie Brad prefers being able to pick someone from the field at large in the event someone gets hurt and that’s as much the hurdle for Lonnie as the money imo.

[Hal14]

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

That's a question for Brad, which he answered after we traded for Springer:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Hal14]

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

Why are we comparing Tatum to Lonnie Walker? Apples and oranges.

-Kornet, Tillman and Queta got signed for peanuts.
-We left the 15th roster spot open for basically all of last season, which saved $ on the tax bill
-We traded out of the 1st round in 2023 to draft Walsh in the 2nd round - that saved us some $
-If tax was no concern, we would've signed Lonnie to a guaranteed contract, rather than exhibit 10.
-If tax was no concern, we would've signed Svi, Banton and Lamar Stevens to guaranteed contracts right off the bat, rather than exhibt 9 (ot 10) deals
-Pritchard was a very team friendly contract. His contract extension was one of the cheapest (in terms of % of the cap) rookie scale extensions in recent memory
-Hauser signed a team friendly deal..we could have signed him to like $18 or $19 mil rather than $11 mil
-KP was a team friendly deal. We could have paid him a lot more than $30 mil a year.
-Jrue signed for quite a bit less than we could have paid him
-We gave White the max amount that we were allowed to offer him this summer, but he could have made a lot more in free agency if he waited till the summer of 2025. Clearly Brad was motivated to get the deal done now, to save the team some $

The pattern of what Brad has done, is pay his 2 pillars (Tatum and Brown) a crap ton of money..lock up the rest of the top 8 rotation guys long term by paying them a fair amount while saving some $ on those deals) and then being cheap with the rest of the roster (we're spending an arm and a leg for them) by having them all on minimum contracts (or rookie deals), signing them to exhibit 10's rather than guaranteed contracts whenever possible, trading 1st round picksand leaving the 15th roster spot open..

[165bows]

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

That's a question for Brad, which he answered after we traded for Springer:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Hey we've got a great fun team to watch this year and I'm okay saying I'm also fine being a little excited about both these guys.

Can't wait for this season and this team dominating but seeing who (if anyone) can emerge from this next group of 5-7 guys (Queta, Springer, Scheierman, Watson, Davison, Walker, Walsh) will be a really fun sub plot for me.

Maybe we should make a thread on those seven and everyone can throw their hats in the ring on how these guys end up.

[Dogen]

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

That's a question for Brad, which he answered after we traded for Springer:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Hey we've got a great fun team to watch this year and I'm okay saying I'm also fine being a little excited about both these guys.

Can't wait for this season and this team dominating but seeing who (if anyone) can emerge from this next group of 5-7 guys (Queta, Springer, Scheierman, Watson, Davison, Walker, Walsh) will be a really fun sub plot for me.

Maybe we should make a thread on those seven and everyone can throw their hats in the ring on how these guys end up.

Brad has needed to figure out ways to bring some wing talent to the bench, which has been thin due to the salaries being mostly locked up in the top 6 players. With no lotto/mid first round picks the last few years, it's going to be through taking a swing on guys like Walsh and Davison in the 2nd round, or packaging picks in a trade for guys like Springer (and Tillman, although he's not a wing), and also castaways like Walker.

The team needs this influx of new talent. Last year we were very fortunate that most of the core players stayed healthy. Now this year with all the off season activity the team needs more bench help to spell Jrue Holiday, for example, so that he's healthy for the playoffs. Jaden Springer is unproven in this regard, but what were the options? The team cannot go out and sign expensive free agents.

I think of a team like the Timberwolves. Yeah, they lost KAT, but have addressed a big need. During the playoffs, Anthony Edwards was run into the ground with minutes. They needed more wing help. Donte DiVincenzo is a great addition via trade, and they also picked up two very talented (but young) picks in Rob Dillingham and Terrence Shannon Jr. (as Conley backup), That team is much improved, imo.

Since the Celtics didn't have a lot of options in the draft and FA, if you consider the total cost of Scheierman, Springer, and Walker, that's a pretty good value if those guys can contribute during the regular season, which I think they all will. It's a flawed group to some extent since Walker needs to improve defense and Springer offense, but those things are addressible in a full camp and the players understanding their assignments. And Baylor is a rookie, but an older "5 year rookie" and thus more likely be ready.

For front court, same case can be made for Queta. It's his 4th season now. He's big. Very affordable contract. He has experience with the team through Maine and Boston.

Those 4 guys: Queta, Scheierman, Walker, Springer, along with Tillman, make up an entire 1-5 bench squad that we didn't really have last season. I know Queta is returning after a full season, but he was mainly in Maine. With all the talk about "we brought everybody back" after the championship, I look at it like Brad brought back the big 6, plus Hauser and Pritchard, and then added an entire 5 man squad that all look like they can contribute during the regular season.

[Homerclease]

This one isn’t a mystery - it’s because they liked Springer at the cost of a pair of seconds, a roster spot and $4M plus tax.

They also like Lonnie at a camp invite and a G league invite and zero guarantee money.

We all now Brad can keep things close to the best but this isn’t some mystery. We know the phrase - don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do?

You can actually do both with Brad and he said everything but that Lonnie’s getting an apartment with Baylor Scheierman in Maine for the winter.

And I like the idea of Lonnie but imo he’s a potential play like pretty much the whole back third of the roster.

I agree that Springer is more likely to make the roster than Lonnie but I don’t agree with the Celtics front office on this decision. Walker is a better player than our end of the rotation guys and I dont see that changing any time soon. At the end of the day it’s the bottom of rotation and isnt a big deal. The 10th man likely doesn’t see significant playoff playing time never mind the 13th.

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

Sure there’s the tax piece (which I’ve been consistently bullish on their spending) but there’s also just the value of the flexibility of the spot being open.

Which I think Lonnie has to also beat that out, rather than Springer or whoever. Ie Brad prefers being able to pick someone from the field at large in the event someone gets hurt and that’s as much the hurdle for Lonnie as the money imo.

They tried to use said flexibility last year to acquire Walker at the trade deadline.

[165bows]

I agree that Springer is more likely to make the roster than Lonnie but I don’t agree with the Celtics front office on this decision. Walker is a better player than our end of the rotation guys and I dont see that changing any time soon. At the end of the day it’s the bottom of rotation and isnt a big deal. The 10th man likely doesn’t see significant playoff playing time never mind the 13th.

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

Sure there’s the tax piece (which I’ve been consistently bullish on their spending) but there’s also just the value of the flexibility of the spot being open.

Which I think Lonnie has to also beat that out, rather than Springer or whoever. Ie Brad prefers being able to pick someone from the field at large in the event someone gets hurt and that’s as much the hurdle for Lonnie as the money imo.

They tried to use said flexibility last year to acquire Walker at the trade deadline.

Maybe but even if so it’s not that compelling. Last year they reported they were targeting Brissett and Banton as their FAs and went out and made it happen. Literally nothing is stopping them from acquiring Walker today, he has no NBA deal.

Or trade back at the draft to number thirty whatever and put the other rookie on a two way instead of Scheierman so there’s a fourteenth roster spot. But at his point as intriguing as Walker is he’s got less committed to him by the team than Drew Peterson.

[165bows]

I will say if he breaks out, and hopefully he does (in some way), a pretty good comparable would be Donte DiVencenzo.

Dude got $4.5M in FA instead of a vet min, but he was kind of a forgotten bench guy who broke out big time when his shooting caught up with his defense. Not sure that Walker has the same ball handling or defense, but he might be a little bit bigger or more athletic, maybe a more wingy-type version of him.

But man the praise he's getting as a big part of the value for Towns, it's like DDV wasn't a total fringe guy two years ago or something.

[Hal14]

I agree that Springer is more likely to make the roster than Lonnie but I don’t agree with the Celtics front office on this decision. Walker is a better player than our end of the rotation guys and I dont see that changing any time soon. At the end of the day it’s the bottom of rotation and isnt a big deal. The 10th man likely doesn’t see significant playoff playing time never mind the 13th.

The lux tax concerns are over stated. As you said don’t listen to what people say watch what they do. The Celtics handed out 620 million in contract extension between the spring and summer of 2024! Tatum (315), Hauser (45), White (125), Holiday (135). If the lux tax were that big of a concern white or holiday would be gone and we would start either Pritchard or Hauser.

Sure there’s the tax piece (which I’ve been consistently bullish on their spending) but there’s also just the value of the flexibility of the spot being open.

Which I think Lonnie has to also beat that out, rather than Springer or whoever. Ie Brad prefers being able to pick someone from the field at large in the event someone gets hurt and that’s as much the hurdle for Lonnie as the money imo.

They tried to use said flexibility last year to acquire Walker at the trade deadline.

But traded for Springer instead

[Celts17Pride]

In my opinion if I had to guess, both Walker IV and Springer will make the team and Walsh will be the cap casualty. Walsh is two years away from being 1 year away. Walsh's timeline really doesn't fit the Celtics timeline. 3 years from now the Celtics will probably have 7-10 Jordan Walsh's on the team. I'm expecting Walsh to land in a place like Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington or Detroit.

[Hal14]

In my opinion if I had to guess, both Walker IV and Springer will make the team and Walsh will be the cap casualty. Walsh is two years away from being 1 year away. Walsh's timeline really doesn't fit the Celtics timeline. 3 years from now the Celtics will probably have 7-10 Jordan Walsh's on the team. I'm expecting Walsh to land in a place like Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington or Detroit.

It wouldn't shock me if that happened.

For the reasons you mentioned but also it seems like Brad made a conscious effort to draft older players this year (Schierman, Watson) which seems like an acknowledgement that his strategy of picking 19 year old projects in the 2nd round (Walsh, JD, Begarin) did not work out. So why not just trade 1 of those guys while he still has some trade value, cut your losses with him now and save some $ on the tax bill at the same time?

Charlotte could be a good spot for him. Some of their fans were recently tweeting about how they needed another wing. Their strategy (based on the Salaun pick and the video that was posted with a behind the scenes look at what made them draft Salaun) seems to be playing the long game, building for the future, trying to get guys who are young, projects, raw but high upside and guys who are hungry, high motor, play hard, compete on D) and it seems like Charles Lee is trying to build a culture of guys who really get after it on D.

Plus Charles Lee coached Walsh last season so already has familiarity with him.

I could see it happening..

[Dogen]

I'd miss seeing Walsh develop here, but he is the odd man out. And he's taking over the Lonnie Walker thread! Not a good look.

For his own career, Walsh may be better off developing elsewhere, like Charlotte or Wahington as stated. I don't see him getting much burn on the Celtics in the next two years.

[bucknersrevenge]

In my opinion if I had to guess, both Walker IV and Springer will make the team and Walsh will be the cap casualty. Walsh is two years away from being 1 year away. Walsh's timeline really doesn't fit the Celtics timeline. 3 years from now the Celtics will probably have 7-10 Jordan Walsh's on the team. I'm expecting Walsh to land in a place like Charlotte, Brooklyn, Washington or Detroit.

It wouldn't shock me if that happened.

For the reasons you mentioned but also it seems like Brad made a conscious effort to draft older players this year (Schierman, Watson) which seems like an acknowledgement that his strategy of picking 19 year old projects in the 2nd round (Walsh, JD, Begarin) did not work out. So why not just trade 1 of those guys while he still has some trade value, cut your losses with him now and save some $ on the tax bill at the same time?

Charlotte could be a good spot for him. Some of their fans were recently tweeting about how they needed another wing. Their strategy (based on the Salaun pick and the video that was posted with a behind the scenes look at what made them draft Salaun) seems to be playing the long game, building for the future, trying to get guys who are young, projects, raw but high upside and guys who are hungry, high motor, play hard, compete on D) and it seems like Charles Lee is trying to build a culture of guys who really get after it on D.

Plus Lee coached Walsh last season so already has familiarity with him.

I could see it happening..

I'll see this and raise you.

I think both make the roster for this year only and next year they keep whoever plays the best and is the best longterm fit. After this year I think Pritchard's a cap casualty. Maybe Al retires. Walsh gets jettisoned as well. O think Walker and Schierman become the bench backcourt. Neither true 1's but not necessary on this team (both capable of handling the ball anyway) and both big enough not to be defensive liabilities back there. Still have Hauser, X and Queta and 2nd 5.

[ConstableGeneva]

Tax isn't computed until final day of regular season. So they could very well sign Walker to a non-guaranteed then just make the necessary salary dump trades later on.

[ConstableGeneva]

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[24istheLAW]

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This is how I think it'll go. And I don't think it should be that hard to find a team that'll take Springer's salary.

Someone else with cap space and less competitive ambitions gets the Springer lotto ticket, and gets his bird rights in case they're the lucky winner.

Springer is a nice gamble. We are just the single team in the NBA that is most in the present and least in the future right now. And we are the team that is most not-in-a-position to pay a guy, who doesn't play, $4 million.

[Dogen]

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This is how I think it'll go. And I don't think it should be that hard to find a team that'll take Springer's salary.

Someone else with cap space and less competitive ambitions gets the Springer lotto ticket, and gets his bird rights in case they're the lucky winner.

Springer is a nice gamble. We are just the single team in the NBA that is most in the present and least in the future right now. And we are the team that is most not-in-a-position to pay a guy, who doesn't play, $4 million.

Now people fading Springer in the Walker thread too!

I get that it's been quiet on the Springer front. Maybe the team showcased him briefly in summer league. Maybe Brad made a boo boo and shouldn't have traded for a contract that hampers the team.

But I don't think so. I think Springer is going to be here until at least the deadline, and will get some minutes too.

The team needs the wing talent of guys like Springer and Walker. There's not going to be better, cheaper options available, and these two are already in camp and able to contribute.

[Hal14]

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?

This is how I think it'll go. And I don't think it should be that hard to find a team that'll take Springer's salary.

Someone else with cap space and less competitive ambitions gets the Springer lotto ticket, and gets his bird rights in case they're the lucky winner.

Springer is a nice gamble. We are just the single team in the NBA that is most in the present and least in the future right now. And we are the team that is most not-in-a-position to pay a guy, who doesn't play, $4 million.

Clearly Brad doesn't see it that way. If he did, he wouldn't have traded for him.

There were rumors last season at the trade deadline that we were interested in Walker. But we traded for Springer instead.

Clearly, the Nets didn't value Walker very highly, since they didn't play him a lot and they let him walk away in free agency for nothing this summer - they didn't offer him any type of contract - not even another 1 year, minimum deal. So it seems like if Brad wanted Lonnie instead of Springer at the deadline, he probably could have gotten Lonnie instead of trying to get one of our conference rivals to give up a talented young player.

Also:
-I think Springer will play this season. Again, if he was never going to play, Brad wouldn't have traded for him. Especially with Jrue getting older..Jrue and White played Olympics this summer and all of our guys have the shortest offseason in the league (ended late with the NBA finals, starting early with the games in Abu Dhabi), the depth Springer brings will be needed
-Springer is on a rookie contract. Rookie contracts are cheap