The (Quadruple) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 4.0)

Post #261 » by **Darth Celtic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:20 am

I'm afraid Griffin or Ibaka would be like trading for McDyess when he went to the Knicks.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #262 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:22 am

Would rather have Vucevic, cheaper and trending upward defensively, than Blake, trending down. Vucevic is the IT of this trade season, Blake is the Goran Dragic. Ibaka's the Rondo. Len, Noel, Okafor are the MCW, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knights.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #263 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:23 am

And yeah, McDyess has always been my comp for Griffin. When these explosive power forwards lose their leap, they come down to earth very quickly. McDyess improved significantly, Blake is already savvier and could have a better mid-career plateau. Shawn Kemp is another example, although he gained weight, too.

jfs1000d · Post #264 » by **jfs1000d** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:40 am

Darth Celtic wrote:25pts 10 rbs, 5 assists, 4 blocks on 9 of 17 shooting beating the Raptors today.

heck, even 3-4 on 3's.

NV playing like he wants Boston's attention. Young, Zeller and D Jackson for NV?

Wonder what deal would be.

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GoCeltics123 · Post #265 » by **GoCeltics123** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:45 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Would rather have Vucevic, cheaper and trending upward defensively, than Blake, trending down. Vucevic is the IT of this trade season, Blake is the Goran Dragic. Ibaka's the Rondo. Len, Noel, Okafor are the MCW, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knights.

I don't know man, Blake when healthy is a superstar. Hard to turn that down

ddb · Post #266 » by **ddb** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:03 am

Froob wrote:Chris Mannix brought up a good point that you can't invest big money in IT, Bradley, and Smart. IT and Bradley are probably 100+ mill players and Smart could be looking at between 60-80. Somebody has to go, who will it be?

To take this a step further, especially considering the top prospects are guards. I sadly think it's Bradley who gets dealt eventually. He is in his prime and having a career year. Danny has already gotten him once on a team friendly deal...not happening again. Bradley is going to free agency and Bradley is getting paid some serious dough.
IT absolutely needs to stay and get maxed out. He's special and he deserves it. Smart is 22 years old and such a versatile defender. He has gotten much better handling the ball and facilitating. Plus, he will be a RFA and Boston has more control over that situation. Ainge can lock in smart on a fair deal...
Jae is locked in. Jaylen is a star in the making. We have the BK pick...I love AB and it will be super sad to see him go, but I feel like he is the 1 that gets dealt.

Maybe for Vucevic

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Andrew McCeltic · Post #267 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:03 am

GoCeltics123 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Would rather have Vucevic, cheaper and trending upward defensively, than Blake, trending down. Vucevic is the IT of this trade season, Blake is the Goran Dragic. Ibaka's the Rondo. Len, Noel, Okafor are the MCW, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knights.

I don't know man, Blake when healthy is a superstar. Hard to turn that down

When's he going to be healthy? And check out his advanced stats - ORtg, DRtg, BPM, VORP, win shares - they've all been going down.

ddb · Post #268 » by **ddb** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:05 am

Darth Celtic wrote:I'm afraid Griffin or Ibaka would be like trading for McDyess when he went to the Knicks.

Yep. I don't see any free agent that's in that Durant category..

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ddb · Post #269 » by **ddb** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:05 am

jfs1000d wrote:
Darth Celtic wrote:25pts 10 rbs, 5 assists, 4 blocks on 9 of 17 shooting beating the Raptors today.

heck, even 3-4 on 3's.

NV playing like he wants Boston's attention. Young, Zeller and D Jackson for NV?

Wonder what deal would be.

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Bradley/Mickey for Vucevic

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Andrew McCeltic · Post #270 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:09 am

ddb wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Darth Celtic wrote:25pts 10 rbs, 5 assists, 4 blocks on 9 of 17 shooting beating the Raptors today.

heck, even 3-4 on 3's.

NV playing like he wants Boston's attention. Young, Zeller and D Jackson for NV?

Wonder what deal would be.

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Bradley.

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Any source on that? Hezonja or pick coming back to us?

It's Orlando writers/fans suggesting expirings + some of Jackson/Yabusele/Mickey/Young.

ddb · Post #271 » by **ddb** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:20 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
ddb wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Wonder what deal would be.

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Bradley.

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Any source on that? Hezonja or pick coming back to us?

It's Orlando writers/fans suggesting expirings + some of Jackson/Yabusele/Mickey/Young.

Rob Hennigan is on the hot seat. A few folks I know, know him fairly well. Orlando has long liked Avery Bradley..

I think AB for Vucevic is a good deal for both sides. Doesn't hurt our free agent $$ either as Danny could still open up a max, or close to max slot.

Vice versa, Orlando would be a good fit for AB. Orlando desperately wants to land 1 of the top PG prospects and is super high on Ntlinkina as well.

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Andrew McCeltic · Post #272 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:21 am

Bradley for Vuc could work, it makes sense in some ways. Hate it on an emotional level, but would probably do it. If that's the price.

Come July, Bradley's on the books for 8.8 million, Vucevic for 12.25. That means we only have to clear 3.45 million to get back to the cap space we have now.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #273 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:27 am

ddb wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
ddb wrote:Bradley.

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Any source on that? Hezonja or pick coming back to us?

It's Orlando writers/fans suggesting expirings + some of Jackson/Yabusele/Mickey/Young.

Rob Hennigan is on the hot seat. A few folks I know, know him fairly well. Orlando has long liked Avery Bradley..

I think AB for Vucevic is a good deal for both sides. Doesn't hurt our free agent $$ either as Danny could still open up a max, or close to max slot.

Vice versa, Orlando would be a good fit for AB. Orlando desperately wants to land 1 of the top PG prospects and is super high on Nlintkina as well.

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I remember you telling us they like Bradley. And it is a good deal for Orlando in some ways. But how would they be in a position to draft one of the points? Losing Vucevic would send them down in the standings? I'd think there's a decent chance they could play better and more cohesively. Vuc is a ball-stopper, Biyombo is a better and more athletic defender, Gordon gets more usage.

ddb · Post #274 » by **ddb** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:28 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Bradley for Vuc could work, it makes sense in some ways. Hate it on an emotional level, but would probably do it. If that's the price.

Come July, Bradley's on the books for 8.8 million, Vucevic for 12.25. That means we only have to clear 3.45 million to get back to the cap space we have now.

Moving Bradley would hurt...but I can't imagine Danny is going to toss him a 5/100-120 type of deal. No way. Not when he has IT, Smart, Brown, Crowder, Rozier, DJAX, and the BKS.

Smart gets a 4/60 type of deal and is still only 27 when it expires... you have to go Smart in this situation.

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Andrew McCeltic · Post #275 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:35 am

Plus, Bradley for Vuc is a longer-term move. It probably makes us better because Smart and Jaylen fill in at the 2 and get developmental minutes. But opening up max space would mean renouncing Olynyk, who we probably want to keep at this point, and either dealing Smart for a future 1st or dealing IT or Crowder for someone making 3 million or less. Crowder for the 7th or 8th pick in the draft, to take Giles or Isaac? Doesn't necessarily bring us closer to the goal.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Jayson Tatum
Horford/Giles
Vucevic/Zizic

Barring opportunities to trade for 'superstars', that actually reminds me of the Utah teams Hayward played for with Jefferson and Milsapp, if better - where the future stars are stuck behind vets, and everything depends on them turning into future stars. Favors and Kanter didn't.

jrob23 · Post #276 » by **jrob23** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:02 am

ddb wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
ddb wrote:Bradley.

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Any source on that? Hezonja or pick coming back to us?

It's Orlando writers/fans suggesting expirings + some of Jackson/Yabusele/Mickey/Young.

Rob Hennigan is on the hot seat. A few folks I know, know him fairly well. Orlando has long liked Avery Bradley..

I think AB for Vucevic is a good deal for both sides. Doesn't hurt our free agent $$ either as Danny could still open up a max, or close to max slot.

Vice versa, Orlando would be a good fit for AB. Orlando desperately wants to land 1 of the top PG prospects and is super high on Ntlinkina as well.

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he's probably not a PG and certainly not a top PG of this draft. I know a couple draft sites are high on him but they're generally clueless. It doesn't mean some G.M. won't take him high because they love them some obscure Euros. Magic will take bpa and if their pick is top 10, bpa won't be Ntilikina imo.

jfs1000d · Post #277 » by **jfs1000d** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:14 am

jrob23 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Any source on that? Hezonja or pick coming back to us?

It's Orlando writers/fans suggesting expirings + some of Jackson/Yabusele/Mickey/Young.

Rob Hennigan is on the hot seat. A few folks I know, know him fairly well. Orlando has long liked Avery Bradley..

I think AB for Vucevic is a good deal for both sides. Doesn't hurt our free agent $$ either as Danny could still open up a max, or close to max slot.

Vice versa, Orlando would be a good fit for AB. Orlando desperately wants to land 1 of the top PG prospects and is super high on Ntlinkina as well.

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he's probably not a PG and certainly not a top PG of this draft. I know a couple draft sites are high on him but they're generally clueless. It doesn't mean some G.M. won't take him high because they love them some obscure Euros. Magic will take bpa and if their pick is top 10, bpa won't be Ntilikina imo.

Jrob. How do you know Ntlinkina isn't a top10 player. I don't know anything about the guy and never heard of him.

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jfs1000d · Post #278 » by **jfs1000d** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:18 am

ddb wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Bradley for Vuc could work, it makes sense in some ways. Hate it on an emotional level, but would probably do it. If that's the price.

Come July, Bradley's on the books for 8.8 million, Vucevic for 12.25. That means we only have to clear 3.45 million to get back to the cap space we have now.

Moving Bradley would hurt...but I can't imagine Danny is going to toss him a 5/100-120 type of deal. No way. Not when he has IT, Smart, Brown, Crowder, Rozier, DJAX, and the BKS.

Smart gets a 4/60 type of deal and is still only 27 when it expires... you have to go Smart in this situation.

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Problem with Bradley deal is the gaping hole at SG. Smart can't shoot it well enough to play that positive and I do love Jaylen there, but he is t ready.

If we did that, we need to replace Bradley's shooting. Maybe a Reddick and/or Crawford in that clip. Knicks Celtics 3-way.

Jaylen at the 2? Kinda like it. We need a sharpshooter to be his primary backup.

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Moobydoo · Post #279 » by **Moobydoo** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:13 am

I struggle to comprehend how you wouldn’t take Vucevic if he’s there given the structure of our current squad. I wouldn’t do it for Brown but I’d sure as hell listen to what they would do it for.

Say if Orlando want Dragic and don’t want V due to the log jam of bigs & Miami certainly wouldn’t pair Hassan with V as they’re not stupid….perfect time to be the 3rd party – and like all good middlemen, you’d get in the middle of that deal for an Ainge commission. If Orlando want to just deal him straight to us ….even better as after the Serge deal – I’m really not sure what the hell they’re doing but again – if it’s a panic trade as they feel they have to do something I’ll take some of that too.

To me we’re still a team that is at the crossroads ….sitting pretty in the East, however we know we aint good enough to win it unless something drastic happens to Cavs and to the West. We have great draft assets but having them is one thing, realising value off them is another.

Basically you could move V if you wanted too, and he makes us better now, which in turn keeps us in the minds of prospective targets far more than if we just draft and say look at the potential of Zizic. I like the looks of Zizic however he can come and earn his spot, if he’s good enough he gets it – if not he learns to earn it.

All of this and you still get to use the Brooklyn pick or deal it.

If we bring in V, less reliant on IT to do all the scoring in the 4th (see how this plan goes in the playoffs), Al plays more 4, he’ll help with board. If we change course you move him (on his contract you’d easily realise most of what you gave up ….hell we’ve got a lot of trading assets we could change direction on a dime if we want to.

I just want to keep hearing that Danny is involved in every conversation, however we don’t have to show our hand …if the worst case scenario is we take Fultz or Ball and stash a couple more, I know a number of teams who would die to have that problem.

Murta · Post #280 » by **Murta** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:14 am

It's a red flag when a player plays excellent in his contract year because he might be looking to get paid. There are a ton of examples, but Ariza in 2010, Dampier in 2004, Bobby Simmons in 2005 come to mind. But you know what is even a bigger, redder flag? Being underwhelming in a contract year, when everybody expected him to have an excellent contract year and get MAX money. Just look at Rondo's last season with the Celtics, or Sullinger's last season. We all though they were going to outperform their regular quality and get big money. They haven't. Rondo is just about done and Sully isn't that better either (unless he improves physically but I don't think he can). They were decent, but nowhere near we though they were going to be.

*points at Ibaka and walks away*