Tatum and Brown, as 1-2 Options

[24istheLAW]

Does anyone think either of these guys is an actual leader?

Summer league has become a place for current NBA players to be seen and to support their new teammates. My five years covering the team, the Celtics have had a steady stream of veterans stop in to take a look. But this year, the support was sparse. French center Vincent Poirier, whose deal had not been signed yet, stopped in and sat with Austin Ainge at an early game, but that was it. Jaylen Brown was in Las Vegas for several days and even attended a Knicks/Lakers game, but was not at any Celtics games. With four new draft picks, it felt like a missed opportunity for a veteran to show some support.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/07/15/thoughts-about-celtics-summer-league-run/UXLgIJYsEhwGsJndu9sVlL/story.html

I'm pretty certain any Celtics leadership is skipping those couple of years between Smart and, yes, Rob W., who shows more such characteristics already--and this new crop of rookies. (Kemba, before even signed, and JT were IIRC with the rooks some during their practice week back in Boston.)

I think our youngs feel superstar level ready. And it has been evident with the whole Kyrie fiasco.yeah the guy is kind of weird but we have self proclaimed stars with an agenda around. Haywards injury might have accelerated tatums development in year 1 but it might really mess him up long term. Let's see how he manages his ego going forward.

I'm with you. Kyrie isn't a good team guy by any stretch of the imagination. But Tatum, Brown and Rozier all were out to play for themselves and not the team. To Brown's credit, it took him a long time, but eventually he got out of the quarter life crisis and he gave it his best effort. Can't say the same about Tatum.

[amory87]

Man people are down on Tatum now huh?

I think this is going to be his year, personally. By the all star break I not only expect him to be playing in it, but I expect that he'll have broken out as the go-to guy on the floor for us.

[ermocrate]

Say what you want about Tatum but I wouldn't trade him for any other player in the NBA. To me, with his youth, talent, and superstar potential he's the #1 asset in the league.

The sky is the limit. His shooting touch, his potential to be a 45% 3 pt shooter, his length, his driving ability and his ability to finish with either hand give him an incredibly high ceiling. Critics can argue about his mental make up, his tendency to play iso and his lack of playmaking etc. Certainly those factors will determine how good he becomes.....but if he maxes out his best qualities he will be an elite NBA player. Given that he is still on rookie deal....no doubt he is one of best players for the money in the NBA.....making him amongst the top assets in NBA for sure.

I forgot to mention that his defensive rating for a wing is already top 10 (based on new Carmelo-esque defensive rating at 538)

He sure has a lot of qualities but unfortunately the Celtics seem not to be a great place to develop young players mentally.

[FeedReed]

He is not a fraud but he won't become pierce 2.0.he is heading for carmelo lite levels and that is not ideal

carmelo lite sounds about right. i personally would rather see his minutes going to edwards, or grant williams, they showed in one summer league more basketball sense than tatum ever has. also want to see how kemba/hayward/brown/bigs play together.

What in the hell? Get it together lol.

edwards really won me over in summer league. just how he played. the instincts, shooting ability, passing ability, quickness, ability to get open. never been as impressed watching someone in summer league as i was watching edwards. if i am a point guard, edwards is the guy i want as my shooting guard. he's constantly in motion trying to get open. he's short, yea, but i see a star at the shooting guard position, and if he shows he can hang in preseason, i'd have him in the starting lineup opening night. kemba, edwards, brown, hayward(hopefully it'll be the jacked hayward like 2 years ago?), kanter... that is my starting lineup. if edwards is gonna play a lot of minutes, he's gotta take them from someone, and i would take them from tatum. tatum does not play a game that benefits anyone but himself. just an iso melo lite. stands around until he gets the ball. when he gets the ball, he does some bs and normally ends up taking a bad shot. that kind of play brings everyone else on the team down. c's already have an iso player in brown, but brown can do more, and he's got a lot more fire in him. last thing you need is brown and tatum out there together. i guess tatum can be the scorer off the bench for now.

[Tatumfor2]

Say what you want about Tatum but I wouldn't trade him for any other player in the NBA. To me, with his youth, talent, and superstar potential he's the #1 asset in the league.

Wow--and you wouldn't happen to be his mom who still cleans his room and lays out his clothes for him, would you?

Tatum being a #1 asset in the league is such a nonsense... How anyone can even say that?

Let's wait for the season to start and see where both guys are. Brown is trustable - he might not make a leap but at least you can count on him playing D and not thinking that he is KOBE and bricking 25-30 shots. Brown seems like a team guy nevermind his talent.

There's Tatum. Not sure. I think everyone hyped him too much and this got into his head. He'll never be Kobe (but again - even in 20 years probably only a few guys can reach that) and I don't see him being Paul Pierce - Paul was a great player.

Let's not make judgements - these two guys now have a year without any drama and no more excuses will be accepted. The argument - they are young goes out of the window when you talk about being the #1 asset for Tatum... If so I want him to show something which is all-star level. He is not a rookie - let's not give him excuses for that. And if the argument is he is still young - that is fine - he can be an all-star couple of times later in his career but HE IS NOT A #1 asset.

Your saying not to judge, while you judge, on a forum chock full of judgements...

[cloverleaf]

Serious congrats, props and thanks to JT for this. Sounds like he handled it perfectly:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/kemba-walker-details-how-jayson-tatum-recruited-him-jordan-event-paris?int

[celticgreenie]

Serious congrats, props and thanks to JT for this. Sounds like he handled it perfectly:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/kemba-walker-details-how-jayson-tatum-recruited-him-jordan-event-paris?int

Who needs Kyrie to recruit AD and Durant when Tatum can recruit Kemba? Onto Beal now. This might bring down the price Celts have to pay for Beal.

[sam_I_am]

Funny.

https://nesn.com/2019/07/jaylen-brown-hilariously-roasts-jayson-tatums-abercrombie-instagram-ad/

[thomas1897]

These guys represent the future of the Celtics and now is a time for both players to prove they belong. Can they go to the next level and bring back the winning tradition of the Celtics. I would like to see Jaylen Brown improve on defense and rebounding. Tatum should improve on defense also. Each player should be more focused and read the defense of other teams better to bring good continuity to the team offense.

[Fencer reregistered]

Funny.

https://nesn.com/2019/07/jaylen-brown-hilariously-roasts-jayson-tatums-abercrombie-instagram-ad/

Still not at the Dan Koppen/Tom Brady level IMO.

For those who don't recall that:

1. Tom Brady was photographed on a magazine cover holding a goat. The OLmen taped a copy of the photo to their backs, and it appears Koppen was the organizer/instigator.

2. Tom Brady said "The only ass I'd rather look at than Dan Koppen's is my wife's."

Other cases involve outright locker room pranks. Apparently Bird, AInge et al. used to pay teammates' kids to help them prank each other, by sticking goop in another guy's shoes or something like that ... and one of the kids was Luke Walton.

[keevsnick1]

So the Dunc'd on Podcast annual mock rookie extension had Jaylen getting 23/4 guaranteed with up to 26.5 through All Star/Finals appearance.

Thoughts?

[celtxman]

So the Dunc'd on Podcast annual mock rookie extension had Jaylen getting 23/4 guaranteed with up to 26.5 through All Star/Finals appearance.

Thoughts?

I think it's the reason Ainge doesnt sign him now. If he progresses, he will get that money anyway and the Celtics can match. If he doesn't get better you decide how to move on and get something for him.
If you have a young Paul Pierce who was clearly going to be a star, you sign the contract now with a big announcement of how special he is to the Celtics. Brown hasn't earned that

[Bar Fight]

You gotta think long term. If Langford shows more promise than Brown this year, signing him to an extension would be a bad move. You can't have a logjam of promising young wings. That does no good for any of them. Brown has to stand out from the pack this season.

[Bluewhale]

You gotta think long term. If Langford shows more promise than Brown this year, signing him to an extension would be a bad move. You can't have a logjam of promising young wings. That does no good for any of them. Brown has to stand out from the pack this season.

You goota think long term.

If Hayward has an excellent career year and jump on another MASSIVE contract at 2020 summer,
There is no logjam of wings.

[SichtingLives]

You gotta think long term. If Langford shows more promise than Brown this year, signing him to an extension would be a bad move. You can't have a logjam of promising young wings. That does no good for any of them. Brown has to stand out from the pack this season.

You goota think long term.

If Hayward has an excellent career year and jump on another MASSIVE contract at 2020 summer,
There is no logjam of wings.

Hayward ain't having a career year statistically with the personnel we have. But if he does have a comeback season still no one is offering him anything close to max money at his age plus a multi-year rehab process. He may however want a fresh start away from here. We never got to see the vision Danny and Brad had in acquiring him but hopefully that comes to fruition this year and makes this logjam a good problem to have. What I wouldn't give to be stuck with the conundrum of how to pay two (or three with Tatum) wings who are actually playing at an all-star level. Currently none of them are that guy so that's what this season should in theory clear up.

[Fencer reregistered]

What I wouldn't give to be stuck with the conundrum of how to pay two (or three with Tatum) wings who are actually playing at an all-star level.

Tony Kukoc was a pretty good player who won some championships. And he was his team's third-best wing, and fourth-best player at positions 2-4.

[Ill News]

I think Jaylen Brown will be similar to Victor Oladipo, in that he'll only really flourish when he's no longer with the Celtics. It took Oladipo a while to harness his athletic gifts and position himself in the Jimmy Butler-tier of stars, and it took him having his own team in Indiana to finally showcase what he could do. He wasn't ready in his Orlando days, and OKC's offense was basically hijacked by Westbrook the year he was there.

It'll be interesting to see Jaylen as the main source of offense on a team, similar to how the Pacers are using Oladipo. With Kemba and Tatum this year, he'll likely be asked to focus again on defense, rebounding, and incidental offense, which is a shame because he's shown flashes of having a nice midrange and post-up game. I think he's capable of being more than the super 3-and-D player that he's being asked to be in Brad's system.

[5InOfLouisville]

But Tatum, Brown and Rozier all were out to play for themselves and not the team.

Disagree.

I found all of their play maddening at times during the season.

However, it is easy to be frustrated during a frustrating season as a fan. Nobody was perfect. EVERYONE on the team had moments that made me go "WTF". I'd be willing to bet that every fan of every team could say that about every player in the NBA.

When a team underperforms expectations, we look for scapegoats. But we can't state peoples' motivations because we simply don't know.

Some of Rozier's comments DID seem selfish. Nothing from Brown or Tatum made me think of them as selfish. By all accounts, everyone' was playing for the team to win, but couldn't figure out the right recipe. Even Kyrie. I'm a celtics fan. Good riddance and all that, but I THINK I believe that, ultimately, his primary goal was team success, like everyone else in that locker room.

And like everyone else in that locker room, he could have gone about his business a lot better, and his methods proved to be unsuccessful.

[FlatearthZorro]

So the Dunc'd on Podcast annual mock rookie extension had Jaylen getting 23/4 guaranteed with up to 26.5 through All Star/Finals appearance.

Thoughts?

That's pretty fair, I'd take that, dunno about Danny. Sadly, sometimes the fair estimations don't always pan out on the market. Meaning Brown could get 28-29 mils from a team on the open market if he plays well and Danny doesn't extend him this summer.

[FlatearthZorro]

I think Jaylen Brown will be similar to Victor Oladipo, in that he'll only really flourish when he's no longer with the Celtics. It took Oladipo a while to harness his athletic gifts and position himself in the Jimmy Butler-tier of stars, and it took him having his own team in Indiana to finally showcase what he could do. He wasn't ready in his Orlando days, and OKC's offense was basically hijacked by Westbrook the year he was there.

It'll be interesting to see Jaylen as the main source of offense on a team, similar to how the Pacers are using Oladipo. With Kemba and Tatum this year, he'll likely be asked to focus again on defense, rebounding, and incidental offense, which is a shame because he's shown flashes of having a nice midrange and post-up game. I think he's capable of being more than the super 3-and-D player that he's being asked to be in Brad's system.

Possibly. We will see, tbh, wonder how the negotiations are going. Still wondering if Danny trades him for a big in his mid 20s ala Turner or Sabonis or somebody else we haven't thought of.