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Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread

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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#261 » by Feed Your Head » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:53 am

rd26 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
rd26 wrote:
First, we generally agree on JB. He has no business initiating the offense. It happens way too often and needs to stop. He is a gifted closer, and that should be his role. The only exception for me is pushing the pace across half court, I do like him in that role, but if nothing is there, give it up.

Count the times in any game that JT walks the ball up the court, dribbles until he either shoots or is double teamed, and quite often both. Its ALOT.

I'm not saying JT isn't good, certainly not saying JB is better. I am saying that this team will continue to live and die by how well JT shoots any given night as long as our best player is simply used to bring it up and go to work.

I don't hate JT, quite the opposite, but I despise the playstyle, and that does not originate with JB, nor will it go away if we trade him for a lesser scorer.


I agree with pretty much all of this. We’re “arguing” small semantic stuff, but agree on the overall point I think.

I just think Tatum’s issue this year is he’s just missing shots he usually makes.


Cimpletely agree. I just think JB is getting too much of the blame and JT too little, but neither is being used correctly. Lack of a #3 plus a rookie head coach compounds that.

I will freely admit that I'm a pure sucker for athletic upside draft picks, and once the fans boo'd JB on draft night, he just fell directly into binky number 1 for me, so maybe my objectivity isn't the best.


I was actually one of the few who legit wanted to draft Jaylen, I thought the Cal system was trash, and Jaylen’s work ethic was already well known by that point.

He is REALLY good at what he’s good at, but it’s the other stuff that I worry about. I’d love for him to prove me wrong, and that he can be that second guy.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#262 » by rd26 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:13 am

The Comedian wrote:
rd26 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
I agree with pretty much all of this. We’re “arguing” small semantic stuff, but agree on the overall point I think.

I just think Tatum’s issue this year is he’s just missing shots he usually makes.


Cimpletely agree. I just think JB is getting too much of the blame and JT too little, but neither is being used correctly. Lack of a #3 plus a rookie head coach compounds that.

I will freely admit that I'm a pure sucker for athletic upside draft picks, and once the fans boo'd JB on draft night, he just fell directly into binky number 1 for me, so maybe my objectivity isn't the best.


I was actually one of the few who legit wanted to draft Jaylen, I thought the Cal system was trash, and Jaylen’s work ethic was already well known by that point.

He is REALLY good at what he’s good at, but it’s the other stuff that I worry about. I’d love for him to prove me wrong, and that he can be that second guy.


Yeah, I was pulling for a trade first, then JB, but I won't take a victory lap, my boy Josh Jackson in 17 wouldn't have worked out so good
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#263 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Jan 3, 2022 9:48 am

I hope GMs were paying attention to the great performance by Jaylen Brown against one of the worst teams in the NBA and are dumb enough to offer us a huge package in a trade. Any team, like us, where he's the 2nd best player isn't winning anything but maybe teams around the league aren't convinced of that yet? So this was a much needed performance to convince those few to trade for him.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#264 » by Fierce1 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 11:13 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:I hope GMs were paying attention to the great performance by Jaylen Brown against one of the worst teams in the NBA and are dumb enough to offer us a huge package in a trade. Any team, like us, where he's the 2nd best player isn't winning anything but maybe teams around the league aren't convinced of that yet? So this was a much needed performance to convince those few to trade for him.


Or maybe GMs are now thinking, Jaylen's so good, we can't afford him. :P
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#265 » by ddb » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:21 pm

Fierce1 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:I hope GMs were paying attention to the great performance by Jaylen Brown against one of the worst teams in the NBA and are dumb enough to offer us a huge package in a trade. Any team, like us, where he's the 2nd best player isn't winning anything but maybe teams around the league aren't convinced of that yet? So this was a much needed performance to convince those few to trade for him.


Or maybe GMs are now thinking, Jaylen's so good, we can't afford him. :P


obviously the preference is to bring in a 3rd star to join JT/JB. Someone that really compliments their game and can take some pressure off them in crunch time. However, as much as I love JB I still think if Brad ever wants to retool and improve the roster that JB is the big ticket. Teams would give up so damn much for JB.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#266 » by sam_I_am » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:51 pm

I am not opposed to trading JB for a better player, like Al Jefferson for KG, but good luck with that. What this team needs to get to next level is obvious….a PG who can score, defend and make plays. With Al, Rob and Grant the front court can more than complement a big 3.

Everybody who points out how awful the offense is with JT and JB initiating the offense is correct. They are both elite closers but somewhat shabby playmakers at this stage of development. Pierce was pretty bad too but when team brought in Chucky and then Payton his play went way up. I like many things about Smart and Pritchard but neither is cutting it as PG for this team.

I don’t think the team can survive with limited shooter like a Rondo type PG without also bringing in an elite 3 pt shooter too. If they can somehow get Fox without breaking JT-JB-RW core it might work assuming he isn’t broken from his years in Sactown. Fox-Smart-JB-Tatum-Rob starting 5 looks pretty awesome.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#267 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:22 pm

Keep his value high....sell high
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#268 » by bfchs123 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:28 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I am not opposed to trading JB for a better player, like Al Jefferson for KG, but good luck with that. What this team needs to get to next level is obvious….a PG who can score, defend and make plays. With Al, Rob and Grant the front court can more than complement a big 3.

Everybody who points out how awful the offense is with JT and JB initiating the offense is correct. They are both elite closers but somewhat shabby playmakers at this stage of development. Pierce was pretty bad too but when team brought in Chucky and then Payton his play went way up. I like many things about Smart and Pritchard but neither is cutting it as PG for this team.

I don’t think the team can survive with limited shooter like a Rondo type PG without also bringing in an elite 3 pt shooter too. If they can somehow get Fox without breaking JT-JB-RW core it might work assuming he isn’t broken from his years in Sactown. Fox-Smart-JB-Tatum-Rob starting 5 looks pretty awesome.


Agree with this, team badly lacks a legit PG

In the bubble only 1.5 years ago the Jays/Smart + good Kemba & Theis was a very good starting lineup and the bench was Wanamaker, Kanter, Semi and significantly worse version of Romeo+Grant. That team worked pretty well and our depth is vastly improved now with the emergence of RWIII, good Grant, and veterans like Horford and Richardson.

We need our 3rd scoring/facilitating PG back - Smart is best in his 2-gaurd role (or 6th man) with some ball handling and Schroder is just not the answer. Kemba wasn't even a great facilitator but at least he reliably took the ball up the court and got it to where it needed to be

Among potential mildly realistic possibilities in the short term, Dejounte Murray would be my top choice. But Fox could work as well, especially if he's fallen out of favor in SAC.

Not sure the Raps would move VanVleet if they opt for a full rebuild but he's a gamer. Brad should also keep his ear to phone on Lillard, Shai, Wall, Simmons, and Brogdon in case something ever made sense there to pursue
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#269 » by Ben-N1ce » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:39 pm

When you need 50 points from Jaylen to beat an up and coming Magic team everything is fine.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#270 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:45 pm

The Magic team is "up and coming?" LOL. More live the worst team in the league decimated even further by the covid protocols. Something tells me that Tim Frazer isn't their long-term solution at point guard. No Suggs, no Anthony no Fultz, no Isaac.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#271 » by Celts17Pride » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:48 pm

Ben-N1ce wrote:When you need 50 points from Jaylen to beat an up and coming Magic team everything is fine.

What does that tell you about the rest of the roster?
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#272 » by Ben-N1ce » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:08 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Ben-N1ce wrote:When you need 50 points from Jaylen to beat an up and coming Magic team everything is fine.

What does that tell you about the rest of the roster?

Jaylen has 14 assists and 25 turnovers the last 5 games while taking 117 shots. That tells me one guy cannot be a primary decision maker and ball handler on offense regardless of his teammates.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#273 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:20 pm

Are people still on the Jaylen brown plays bully ball and has a low BB IQ thing? I like Tatum more, but so many Brown folks have taken the L the last few years it is comical.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#274 » by Ben-N1ce » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:36 pm

jfs1000d wrote:Are people still on the Jaylen brown plays bully ball and has a low BB IQ thing? I like Tatum more, but so many Brown folks have taken the L the last few years it is comical.

Being a good scorer doesnt mean your aren't a below average playmaker and average at best defender with average to poor decision making..that's is actually what he is..
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#275 » by jmr07019 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:48 pm

Celtics are 8th in defensive rating, 20th in offensive rating and 21st in TS%. TS% always has a strong correlation with offensive rating. The Heat who are 5th overall in team TS% have a 57% TS for the entire team. Let's take a look at our guy's FGA/game and their TS%

1. Tatum 21.5 ..... 53%
2. Brown 19.1 .......57%
3. Schroeder 13.9....53%
4. Smart 10.1 ..... 51%
5. Horford 9.8...... 55%
6. Richardson 8.3 .... 59%
7. Rob 6.0 ......74%
8. Grant 5.2......68%

Clearly it's the top 5 guys bogging down the offense.

Schroeder and Smart are right at their career norms in TS%. I can't see either improving substantially.

Horford averaged 58% TS his 3 years in Boston and 54% TS the previous 2 years. You may get some small improvement here but I wouldn't expect much. You do need to factor in his age and a small decline in play from the last time he was in Boston.

You could replace Jaylen with prime Steve Nash but Smart, Schroder and Horford aren’t going to become great scorers. Take away the best scorer we’ve had this year (by a wide margin) and the offense is really going to be in trouble.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#276 » by playa-hater » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:48 pm

Time for my Monday afternoon "Give me some juicy Rumors already" - post!!
2 things need to go.. my lack of spell check and Joe.. :nod:
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#277 » by chrisab123 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:53 pm

So do we like Jaylen again?
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#278 » by pac213up » Mon Jan 3, 2022 6:12 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Ben-N1ce wrote:When you need 50 points from Jaylen to beat an up and coming Magic team everything is fine.

What does that tell you about the rest of the roster?


The roster is not bad, there are talented players, but it just disjointed. Too often you have multiple players on the floor that are not shooting threats. Not going to win in today's NBA with that type of approach.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#279 » by RickyDizzle » Mon Jan 3, 2022 6:16 pm

... side note question, with Horford's partially-guarenteed option for next year, how does that work? If we waive him, we only have to pay 14.5 to him instead of 27 million as I understand, but then are we allowed to resign him right away? Could we pay him the 14.5 and then sign him for say 2 years and 11 million or something?

That 14.5 is a sunk cost if we don't trade him, but we surely can't pay him 27 mil next year.

If we do trade him at the deadline, and he gets waived, can we sign him again as a free agent next off-season?

I like him as a 3rd big type and veteran leader.
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Re: Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread 

Post#280 » by BK_2020 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 6:20 pm

Why would Horford sign with us to be a 3rd big

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