Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5, 2023-24 – (6PM [ET], Fri, June 30)

[Hal14]

What is the list of guys who shot 44/48/88 last year?

1) He's gonna regress to the mean this season - especially since his elbow is all messed up now. That shooting he had last season was an outlier.

2) I'll gladly take someone else who might not quite have those shooting splits, but can actually pass the basketball and defend and stay healthy.

Case in point Immanuel Quickley (no, I'm not suggesting we get him instead of Brogdon. Knicks would never do that). Point is, Brogdon had better shooting splits last season but if you look at on/off rating and pretty much all advanced stats (especially ones that factor in defense) Quickley was the better player who contributed to winning basketball more than Brogdon did. Being objective here, Quickley should have won 6MOY, not Brogdon. Especially considering he played in 14 more games than Brogdon.

His career numbers are 39/47/88. Not far off. Do you have a list of guys who do that for there career? Are they readily available and realistic gets for Boston?

As I've already said, we don't *need* anyone to come off the bench with those shooting splits. I would gladly take a guard who might not quite hit those same shooting splits but is less of a ball stopper, better defensively and less injury prone. Not to mention, on a cheaper contract so that we have enough $ to to improve other parts of the roster.

It's bad enough that we still have JB (obviously it seems highly unlikely that he'll be moved) who is a ball stopper, forces shots, doesn't pass enough and has lots of defensive lapses. Having both JB AND Brogdon is rough. We usually got killed when both of them were out there on the court together, especially if tatum was on the bench.

Not to mention, we traded away Smart (a low usage guy who had our highest assist % on the team) in exchange for Porzingis (a high usage guy, who is also low assist % guy). Smart is also a better defender than KP.

All of this means, it's imperative that the guys we have as a supporting cast surrounding the Jays and KP are unselfish ball movers and good defenders.

With JB here still. With KP added to the team and Smart gone. Man, it's tough to keep Brogdon on, since he's a ball stopper who's not good on D. Especially with all the guys we have who are injury prone or old (rob, al, KP...JB gets hurt fairly frequently too) we don't really want more injury prone guys.

With that being said, if we keep Brogdon on the team - I'll be happy. He's a good player. A solid 6th/7th man. BUT if we're able to make a move(s) and we end up with a roster that doesn't have Brogdon on it, where we have less injury prone guys..and more guys who can defend and are unselfish ball movers and it's a better, more well balanced roster by re-allocating some of the $ we're paying Brogdon elsewhere - I'd be happier.

What type of move(s) would that be? IDK. Brad's the one who gets paid the big bucks

[robdog_5]

My thing is Brogdon isn't an elite player. But he's q good player. He's a very good shooter. Can run some pick and roll and play solid basketball. But he gets hurt and is coming off an injury where you don't know exactly what's gonna happen. His value is low. What can you get thwt makes you better? He's a solid player so you can't just get trash. So your gonna have to either attach assets or take back longer money someone wants to get off of. Frankly that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The Brogdon hate is bizarre. He was literally our best player off the bench, by far. He was asked to score, when we had no bench scoring, and he did it singlehandedly. He carried that unit. Yes he can distribute but that wasn't what he was asked to do. He was asked to be the lead guy off the bench and all he did was win 6MOY. I'm not saying there aren't better players out there but the idea that this guy can be replaced by some tax MLE guy or some scrap heap vet is utterly laughable. How easily people forget our bench woes before Brogdon was here.

Didn’t get a chance to run the show, and just having more minutes with the starters will make him look good too. He’s a starting point guard who’d be even better than Smart and White if he didn’t have the injury problems. Better scorer than either, better shooter, maybe a better playmaker, and almost as good a defender.

It’s the horrible chemistry with Jaylen - even if that’s Brown’s fault, they’re not picking Malcolm - plus the injury risk, plus the cap and tax, plus the surplus talent level in the backcourt even with Smart gone. (Like, White/Delon Wright/Pritchard) could easily be a championship point guard rotation with this team.)

[captain green]

The Nuggets jettisoned their bench scorer at the deadline. Somehow that didn't seem to tank their season. Bruce Brown was their only bench player that averaged more than 8 points per game. On the 2022 Warriors, Poole was the only bench guy averaging double digits (and he started 50+ games that year so bench guy is stretching it). On the 2021 Bucks, Portis was the only bench guy scoring 10+ points.

You really only need at most one consistent scorer off the bench and Brogdon will do that for the Celtics whenever he's back. Relying on guys 7 and down in the rotation order to provide scoring is building the team backwards.

Yeah I hear ya but Brogdon being hurt who is going to do that when he isn't playing? Keep in mind Brogdon has missed 174 game in seven seasons and will miss at least the first month next year.imo you need to be nine deep players deep. At the start of the season your telling me white brown Tatum timelord unicorn horford can't and Pritchard and Brogdon when back is good enough to win the ring?

They'll play Hauser or Pritchard and keep the floor spaced. Those guys will knock down 3 threes and they'll be in double digit before you realise it. Whatever drop off in usage from Brogdon to the next guy in line can easily be absorbed by having a starter in Porzingis that can handle a much higher scoring workload than Smart.

The Celtics were arguably a Tatum sprained ankle from back to back finals appearances. While they aren't dynasty level great, they absolutely have the talent to get it done if things break their way. To suggest anything else is silly.

Well call me me silly then . If I'm to rely on Pritchard and huaser as my guys off the bench first ok then if you say so. To suggest that Pritchard to be 6th and 7th guy off the bench makes my eyes hurt. Better start praying now about no injuries to timelord unicorn and Brogdon and Tatum's ankle and brown hand and for Pritchard and huaser to figure out to play defense a lot of hopefully and personally improvement I will say that Hauser did know where to be on offense and defensive sets more than can't will so I'll give him a pass and I personally like Pritchard so but I have them as 9th and 10th rotation players that now has to be 6th and 7th at the start of the season. That's a big jump I'll get my beads and four-leaf clovers ready. Because it's going to be a long season of on eggshells from injury risks

[Hal14]

My thing is Brogdon isn't an elite player. But he's q good player. He's a very good shooter. Can run some pick and roll and play solid basketball. But he gets hurt and is coming off an injury where you don't know exactly what's gonna happen. His value is low. What can you get thwt makes you better? He's a solid player so you can't just get trash. So your gonna have to either attach assets or take back longer money someone wants to get off of. Frankly that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

I mean, we almost just got Porzingis for Brogdon.

Only reason that initial deal fell through is because KP had that deadline to opt in by midnight so there wasn't enough time for the Clippers to get medicals on Brogdon or do a physical or whatever.

And now that there's updated reports out there today that his injury isn't as serious as Windy was initially reporting (and all reports are saying he should be ready to go by the start of the season) we could possibly find another deal for him.

It would be tricky though. Brad knows what he's doing though, so if anyone can find a way, it's him

But again, if we can't find a deal that makes sense, we can do much worse than running it back with Brogdon as our 6th man again.

[Fierce1]

Why trade Brogdon now when the only PGs on the team are White, Brogdon, PP, and Davison?

It doesn't make sense to trade Brogdon now because there's no more logjam at PG with Smart gone.

[celtxman]

I love the "We can easily replace what Brogdon gives us" vibe on this board.

He's the first 6th Man of the year that this team has had since Walton was here. Took them 37 years to find one.

Really easy......

Read on Twitter

?s=20
100%. It is SO important to understand this. The Clippers got cold feet not having the time to do medicals. That's on them and really a red flag in getting into deep negotiations with them ever again. Suddenly this has become a lot more than it should have been.
Brogdon's injury history is certainly a factor in any trade. That's how the Celtics got the 6th Man of the year so cheap. But someone has to come up with some proof that this particular injury is somehow a real problem, or bad faith negotiations by the Clippers that damages Brogdon.
I hope we don't lose him for 20 cents on the dollar. That will be impossible to replace

[hugepatsfan]

Brogdon's 44.4% shooting was a career high. It's definitely fair to say that's an outlier. But he's a career 39% shooter. He's had a 50/40/90 season.

His 3 years in MIL he was 48/41/90 overall. That compared to 48/44/87 last year. Not so outlier-ish. In IND he was 45/35/87 which speaks to the increased shot creation for himself he had compared to MIL and here. That's the outlier, IMO.

So yeah, 44% from 3 is probably unrealistic, but a healthy Brogdon should be looked at as a 40% shooter. That's basically his career mark (39%) and in line with what he's done when he has a role akin to what his BOS is (vs a primary creator in IND).

You know who’s got a fighting chance at 50/40/90? With the best teammates he’s ever had, less defensive attention, better looks, and a big spike in his efficiency from the post?

lol would be something

90 from the FT line seems tough for Porzingis. And the percentage of shots he takes from 3 seems too high. Not saying it's impossible. But I'd seriously doubt he makes a legitimate push for it

[captain green]

Look if we have a healthy Brogdon off the bench at the start of the season then I'd be happier. partial tear in the tendon of his right elbow usually takes six months to a year to heal. I don't see how we can legit trade Pritchard now tbh . And hopefully we get equal or better value for can't will. I hate him but man do we need him on that bench. I'm personally not sold on any other players on the roster except maybe JD ( huaser kornet and champagnei are basic to garbage players) we need a couple more moves for me to like this roster.

[zoyathedestroya]

The best but most difficult thing the Celtics should do is use their draft capital to get a team with cap space to take Brogdan off their hand for a TPE or a player making $5-7 million & a TPE and just resign Grant Williams. That's my opinion. Long term G Williams is more valuable than Brogdon.

I honestly believe that Brad Stevens is going to try to do this but it will be costly and difficult.

If the Celtics could make it work, I would rather move Brogdon and resign G Williams.

Where'd you get those figures for the 10-yr vet min and rookie min.?

I didn't, Zoya did. I believe him.

Haha you shouldn't. Numbers not too far off if they're wrong. (Even missed Jackson's dead money).They can get below second apron if they wanted with those same players. At least I think so.

[NotAKnicksFan]

I want to trade brogdon id rather someone who can pass off the bench at pg

Trade pritchard too, i dont want a player who demanded a trade from celtics

Jd davidson easily replaces pritchard

[robdog_5]

My thing is Brogdon isn't an elite player. But he's q good player. He's a very good shooter. Can run some pick and roll and play solid basketball. But he gets hurt and is coming off an injury where you don't know exactly what's gonna happen. His value is low. What can you get thwt makes you better? He's a solid player so you can't just get trash. So your gonna have to either attach assets or take back longer money someone wants to get off of. Frankly that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

I mean, we almost just got Porzingis for Brogdon.

Only reason that initial deal fell through is because KP had that deadline to opt in by midnight so there wasn't enough time for the Clippers to get medicals on Brogdon or do a physical or whatever.

And now that there's updated reports out there today that his injury isn't as serious as Windy was initially reporting (and all reports are saying he should be ready to go by the start of the season) we could possibly find another deal for him.

It would be tricky though. Brad knows what he's doing though, so if anyone can find a way, it's him

But again, if we can't find a deal that makes sense, we can do much worse than running it back with Brogdon as our 6th man again.

I've looked all offseason for Brogdon spots. The Clippers were one of only a few that made sense to me.

There not many spots that make sense.

[BK_2020]

My thing is Brogdon isn't an elite player. But he's q good player. He's a very good shooter. Can run some pick and roll and play solid basketball. But he gets hurt and is coming off an injury where you don't know exactly what's gonna happen. His value is low. What can you get thwt makes you better? He's a solid player so you can't just get trash. So your gonna have to either attach assets or take back longer money someone wants to get off of. Frankly that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

I mean, we almost just got Porzingis for Brogdon.

Only reason that initial deal fell through is because KP had that deadline to opt in by midnight so there wasn't enough time for the Clippers to get medicals on Brogdon or do a physical or whatever.

And now that there's updated reports out there today that his injury isn't as serious as Windy was initially reporting (and all reports are saying he should be ready to go by the start of the season) we could possibly find another deal for him.

It would be tricky though. Brad knows what he's doing though, so if anyone can find a way, it's him

But again, if we can't find a deal that makes sense, we can do much worse than running it back with Brogdon as our 6th man again.

I've looked all offseason for Brogdon spots. The Clippers were one of only a few that made sense to me.

There not many spots that make sense.

The Raptors

[captain green]

What player has equal or better value for can't will that we legit can get ? Same for Pritchard even though I'm less concerned about moving him now with Brogdon hurt

[robdog_5]

https://craftednba.com/players/malcolm-brogdon

[robdog_5]

I mean, we almost just got Porzingis for Brogdon.

Only reason that initial deal fell through is because KP had that deadline to opt in by midnight so there wasn't enough time for the Clippers to get medicals on Brogdon or do a physical or whatever.

And now that there's updated reports out there today that his injury isn't as serious as Windy was initially reporting (and all reports are saying he should be ready to go by the start of the season) we could possibly find another deal for him.

It would be tricky though. Brad knows what he's doing though, so if anyone can find a way, it's him

But again, if we can't find a deal that makes sense, we can do much worse than running it back with Brogdon as our 6th man again.

I've looked all offseason for Brogdon spots. The Clippers were one of only a few that made sense to me.

There not many spots that make sense.

The Raptors

If Fleet leaves I could see it. I could also see Pop bringing him in to help be a leader of a young team.

[Celts17Pride]

I still think Bos/LAC/Was Brogdon trade is still a possibility and in that case I would love to pair D White up with Monte Morris. Clippers needed more time to look at Brogdon's medicals and Brad Stevens couldn't wait because of the Porzingis opt-in deadline. Deal could be dead but I think there still may be something to it.

[chrisab123]

It kind of sucks that Porzingis is already kind of hated by a good amount of Celtics fans because he happened to be traded for Smart. I think the guy will win the nay sayers over by January.

[NotAKnicksFan]

Would it be good to trade jaylen for dame ?

[playa-hater]

Brogdon was a well above average shooter before Boston and became tops with his Star teammates' gravity. That does not grow on trees. I don't take that for Granted. I also think his defense, while Not good is being way too over blown as bad. It's like the Hauser Syndrome.

Brogdon's lack of playmaking may have been in large part to his role that was asked coming off the bench. Who was our scorer off the bench last year?

Is he a high level play-maker, no. But he is a pretty High level IQ player for the most part.

But to top it off, Brogdon has already more playoff experience than many/all the players suggested he be traded for. I don't want someone that has almost No experience in crunch time taking the Big shots for their first time in a game 7 deep in the postseason.

Again I repeat, If there is a way to Improve this team, fine trade him. But the odds of that happening isn't as easy as some have suggested.