Trade Thread Part Deux

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics trade Ojeleye, Edwards and Bos 2020 1st to Nuggets for Malik Beasley

Celtics trade Green and Mil 2020 1st to Golden St for Alec Burks.

I'm sure Ainge is working on this because I've sent it 1,118 times times to his twitter account.

[CelticFaninLBC]

who do you have in mind?

Taking Hayward, Langford and the MEM pick off the table...

Long defender - Covington for G. Williams, salary fillet and a pick or 2

Shooter - Bjelica or JJ Reddick

never going to get covington for that,

Hayward, edwards, and a pick would get your dieng and covington though, imo.

Why does Minnesota want Hayward? They suck this year and if he gets hurt, they have to pay him $34 million next year.

[31to6]

You think so? I mean I just don't believe the market is high for someone like him. Just watching him play, there's no way.. who are the free agent wings this summer?

Something unstated in this conversation to date is that three of the current top 28 scorers in the league this season play in Boston. We also have a 5th option scoring 12.4 ppg in Smart. So not only are Hayward's scoring numbers deflated IMO, anyone else we bring in is likely to be a 4th option at best, and barely ahead of being 5th. Fortunately for us, despite being slightly underutilized as a scorer, Hayward is super versatile and can do multiple things for us as needed.

On another team, in a more featured role, he would realistically be a 21/5/4 guy with positional versatility and decent defense and super high BBIQ. Even if you have to manage his health as is common for pretty much every number player on the wrong side of 30. Considering that there are currently no less than TEN other teams that do not have a (qualified) scorer that would crack our top 3, I'd say that people are absolutely out of their minds if they don't think a 20+ ppg scorer with Hayward's versatility and BBIQ would be in demand. It's the same reason we had to overpay Jaylen rather than lose him for nothing.

I'm with you, as long as Hayward finishes the season and playoffs without sustaining some sort of major injury, he is very likely to opt out. It's AD, DeMar, Hayward, Drummond, OPJ, Gallo and slop in this FA period. AD and Drummond (lmao to whichever team) are gonna get the max, maybe DeMar too. OPJ is the youngest, but also the worst, not a max player. Gallo has more injuries that Hayward and he'll be 32.

Horford is 33 and just got 4/109. Hayward can easily get 4/130 or something if he wants.

Cetlics underpaid Jaylen Brown, but everything else you said is right.

help who is OPJ? All I can think is "Olden Polynice Jr" and while Gary Payton II and Glen Robinson III and Gary Trent Jr. have my head spinning sometimes I'm pretty sure it's not that:)

[Feed Your Head]

Something unstated in this conversation to date is that three of the current top 28 scorers in the league this season play in Boston. We also have a 5th option scoring 12.4 ppg in Smart. So not only are Hayward's scoring numbers deflated IMO, anyone else we bring in is likely to be a 4th option at best, and barely ahead of being 5th. Fortunately for us, despite being slightly underutilized as a scorer, Hayward is super versatile and can do multiple things for us as needed.

On another team, in a more featured role, he would realistically be a 21/5/4 guy with positional versatility and decent defense and super high BBIQ. Even if you have to manage his health as is common for pretty much every number player on the wrong side of 30. Considering that there are currently no less than TEN other teams that do not have a (qualified) scorer that would crack our top 3, I'd say that people are absolutely out of their minds if they don't think a 20+ ppg scorer with Hayward's versatility and BBIQ would be in demand. It's the same reason we had to overpay Jaylen rather than lose him for nothing.

I'm with you, as long as Hayward finishes the season and playoffs without sustaining some sort of major injury, he is very likely to opt out. It's AD, DeMar, Hayward, Drummond, OPJ, Gallo and slop in this FA period. AD and Drummond (lmao to whichever team) are gonna get the max, maybe DeMar too. OPJ is the youngest, but also the worst, not a max player. Gallo has more injuries that Hayward and he'll be 32.

Horford is 33 and just got 4/109. Hayward can easily get 4/130 or something if he wants.

Cetlics underpaid Jaylen Brown, but everything else you said is right.

help who is OPJ? All I can think is "Olden Polynice Jr" and while Gary Payton II and Glen Robinson III and Gary Trent Jr. have my head spinning sometimes I'm pretty sure it's not that:)

Otto Porter Jr still exists, even though i cannot remember the last time i saw him play.

[31to6]

I'm with you, as long as Hayward finishes the season and playoffs without sustaining some sort of major injury, he is very likely to opt out. It's AD, DeMar, Hayward, Drummond, OPJ, Gallo and slop in this FA period. AD and Drummond (lmao to whichever team) are gonna get the max, maybe DeMar too. OPJ is the youngest, but also the worst, not a max player. Gallo has more injuries that Hayward and he'll be 32.

Horford is 33 and just got 4/109. Hayward can easily get 4/130 or something if he wants.

Cetlics underpaid Jaylen Brown, but everything else you said is right.

help who is OPJ? All I can think is "Olden Polynice Jr" and while Gary Payton II and Glen Robinson III and Gary Trent Jr. have my head spinning sometimes I'm pretty sure it's not that:)

Otto Porter Jr still exists, even though i cannot remember the last time i saw him play.

is that the son of the guy the Wizards drafted unconscionably high and never panned out?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Forget who, but one NBA writer claimed that the market for Hayward had returned.. I think most teams recognize what he brings to the table, and how his numbers are deflated by our depth and his selflessness as a player. Also, if you’re an over the cap and marginally competitive team - like Orlando - the chance to get a RFA with a strong chance of retaining him is a big deal.

[100proof]

Taking Hayward, Langford and the MEM pick off the table...

Long defender - Covington for G. Williams, salary fillet and a pick or 2

Shooter - Bjelica or JJ Reddick

never going to get covington for that,

Hayward, edwards, and a pick would get your dieng and covington though, imo.

Why does Minnesota want Hayward? They suck this year and if he gets hurt, they have to pay him $34 million next year.

If gordon opts in

And minny's glaring weakness is stable playmaking. Gordon gives them that

[jeremym480]

There are only three teams that have four players scoring more than 16 ppg - Us, the Clippers, and OKC. Hayward is basically our 4th option. If you're expecting him to average 20+ ppg then you're going to be disappointed. He does need to be more consistent like he was during the first nine games of the season when he was our most consistent player. If he can get back there, then this team could be really good, if not, we'll have trouble making it out of the 1st Round but I believe Hayward's play will be the difference between making a good run or going out early.

I'm not 100% on board with not trading Hayward, mainly because I'm afraid that he will pull a Horford, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a trade that clearly makes the team better. I have yet to see that trade and honestly, I don't think that he has the trade value right now to replace himself (if that makes sense).

Unless management is really concerned about him leaving then I say stay the course, see who shakes loose in the buyout market and maybe make a minor trade to bolster the bench. Guys like Aaron Gordon and Robert Covington aren't better than Hayward and doesn't move the needle, at all.

[CelticFaninLBC]

never going to get covington for that,

Hayward, edwards, and a pick would get your dieng and covington though, imo.

Why does Minnesota want Hayward? They suck this year and if he gets hurt, they have to pay him $34 million next year.

If gordon opts in

And minny's glaring weakness is stable playmaking. Gordon gives them that

There's a much better chance of Hayward opting in with Orlando than Minnesota. Florida has much better weather and lower taxes...

[klemen4]

Having 4 youngsters in Langford, 2xWilliams and Edwards there is no way Danny ads another 3 rookies in draft.

At minimum Milwaukee pick should be used in a trade to upgrade bench, if for a player on expiring contract, do what...one rookie less.

Picks are way to overated in today's nba.

[Darth Celtic]

Having 4 youngsters in Langford, 2xWilliams and Edwards there is no way Danny ads another 3 rookies in draft.

At minimum Milwaukee pick should be used in a trade to upgrade bench, if for a player on expiring contract, do what...one rookie less.

Picks are way to overated in today's nba.

Danny can just wait to the draft, and wait for some team to fall in love with a guy at the end of the 1st, and trade the pick for a 2020 lotto protected first or something.

and picks were overrated like 10 years ago. With the current CBA picks are gold. You could buy late firsts for 3m a few years back. Not anymore. Those years of cost controlled talent for that long. You have to have that to build around your star players. You can't afford vet role players and 3 max contracts.

[Ben-N1ce]

Huge overpay

A bad Memphis pick and bums is too much? I totally disagree. That pick and those players aren't worth much of anything.

Easy schedule part of the season and hot streak aside, that Griz pick is still most likely to be a lotto pick (maybe the 14th pick) but still a lotto pick. Any pick in the teens has more value than a 31 year old pg with 2 bad knees with huge injury problems in the past who's entire game is based on athleticism shooting 33% from 3.

Will that trade take us to the finals this year? no. Does it help us win next year? No.

We need to hit on the young talent in the teens while being a top 5 team. IT's been this way since we realized Kyrie/Ad wasn't going to happen.

Rose is better than half the starting PG guards in the league this year making 7.5 mil. It's irrelevant what his age is if you are trying to win right now. He'd be getting in the paint driving in kicking to better than the scrub shooters on Det. Young guys like Langford Williams etc have zero value to winning a chip this year. They won't get a meaningful minute besides a blowout our way or the other way what's a 14th pick going do do for you? You go from the starting unit then stagger in Rose Smart and potentially two other starters you are smoking second units and essentially have a bench better than most leagues starting units.

[CelticFaninLBC]

A bad Memphis pick and bums is too much? I totally disagree. That pick and those players aren't worth much of anything.

Easy schedule part of the season and hot streak aside, that Griz pick is still most likely to be a lotto pick (maybe the 14th pick) but still a lotto pick. Any pick in the teens has more value than a 31 year old pg with 2 bad knees with huge injury problems in the past who's entire game is based on athleticism shooting 33% from 3.

Will that trade take us to the finals this year? no. Does it help us win next year? No.

We need to hit on the young talent in the teens while being a top 5 team. IT's been this way since we realized Kyrie/Ad wasn't going to happen.

Rose is better than half the starting PG guards in the league this year making 7.5 mil. It's irrelevant what his age is if you are trying to win right now. He'd be getting in the paint driving in kicking to better than the scrub shooters on Det. Young guys like Langford Williams etc have zero value to winning a chip this year. They won't get a meaningful minute besides a blowout our way or the other way what's a 14th pick going do do for you? You go from the starting unit then stagger in Rose Smart and potentially two other starters you are smoking second units and essentially have a bench better than most leagues starting units.

Advanced metrics give the Celtics a 3% chance of winning it all this year. This team is a long shot and should build around Tatum and Brown. Derrick Rose dominates the ball and won't help much this year or next.

[Fencer reregistered]

You seem really down on Time Lord. Why?

Aaron Gordon hasn't had an impact on the Orlando Magic since he has been there.

Same can be said of gordon hayward on the boston celtics

Gordon leaves us wanting more...that's the only thing he's guilty of...he leaves us wanting more because he's capable of scoring 20/6/6 every night. so he frustrates me sometimes because he's so willing to take a back seat. But on the other hand....when you really break down his play, he's pretty darn good. he makes so many good plays. if hockey assists were a thing he'd be up there among the league leaders. as long as he's happy here, I'm okay with him being here long-term. I just wonder if he'll want to leave Boston since 2 of our best players play the same position as him. ?????

Kemba/Tatum/Hayward/Brown/Smart/Theis/Kanter are not the problem. The problem is that after the Top 7 this team gets extremely young and inexperienced. Langford isn't going anywhere. Grant probably isn't going anywhere. I'd say everyone else is available in trades to bolster the bench for a big run.....But Danny isn't going to just give away assets for a rental. It needs to be guys that can be added into the foundation of this team.

My approach, and I've said this a few times on here....Aside from a big-bang approach (Hayward trade) which I've entertained a couple times out of pure frustration/venting....And what is most likely to happen.....is that Ainge goes after 1 piece that can extend our rotation of reliable players to 8. It could be a lead guard type like DRose.....It could be a shooter like Bertans.....It could be a combo guard like Alec Burks....Ainge has a couple end of bench pieces and late 1st round picks he can play with.

Something like the following 2 trade ideas would really help get this team to the next level.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=w6v88yo. trade 1 is Rose/Mykhailiuk for Poirer/Semi/Edwards/Bucks 1st.

Why for Boston: Rose isn't a rental. he's under contract next season as well. He isn't the explosive MVP he once was, but he's reinvented himself and has become 1 heck of a 6th man type. Averaging 18ppg in 25mpg. so in 20mpg here he's going to give you a reliable veteran savvy lead guard that can impact the game and provide leadership. Mykhailiuk would be a fringe rotation guy, but someone that Brad could call on to space the floor. With Kemba/Rose/Smart/Tatum/Hayward/Brown on this team there will be open shots. Mykhailiuk can knock those down. Milwaukee has like 4 of these guys. Boston needs 1!

Why for Detroit: you get a first round pick and a couple young players to develop. you get out of the 7plus mill owed to Rose. They may get a better deal for Rose, but if not this isn't a bad option for them.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=vzgqyuk trade 2 is Burks for Edwards/future 2nd.

Burks would likely be a rental, but he can help out this year. he's playing really well. Carsen Edwards may end up becoming a microwave offense type in this league, but he hasn't shown it yet. he could also end up playing in Europe. Ainge can find another Edwards type in future drafts...not a huge loss. it takes something to get something here. But because Burks is a rental they aren't getting a 1st for him. I'm not sure I'd trade that Bucks pick in this deal.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=t8hfyqe trade 3 is Bertans for Timelord/Edwards/Semi and maybe that Bucks 1st. He's going to be expensive...
Bertans isn't a rental, he's pretty young, and he's having a good year...so the bidding for him will be pretty high. Ainge would likely have to fork over Timelord is this deal. I'm okay with that because Poirer has shown me enough to think he can be that emergency big behind Theis/Kanter/Grant. Ainge can also explore the waiver market for big man depth. but Bertans is a guy that can come off the bench and snipe. Man would he open up lanes for our guys. He's exactly what his team needs.

Kemba-JB-GH-JT-Theis
Wanamaker-Smart-Bertans-Kanter with Grant/Green/Langford/Poirer fighting for spot mins.

Go to war with that squad!

[Half-Full]

Having 4 youngsters in Langford, 2xWilliams and Edwards there is no way Danny ads another 3 rookies in draft.

At minimum Milwaukee pick should be used in a trade to upgrade bench, if for a player on expiring contract, do what...one rookie less.

Picks are way to overated in today's nba.

Danny can just wait to the draft, and wait for some team to fall in love with a guy at the end of the 1st, and trade the pick for a 2020 lotto protected first or something.

and picks were overrated like 10 years ago. With the current CBA picks are gold. You could buy late firsts for 3m a few years back. Not anymore. Those years of cost controlled talent for that long. You have to have that to build around your star players. You can't afford vet role players and 3 max contracts.

Yeah, we certainly don't need three more rookies. If we still have our picks come draft night, trading up or trading for future picks makes sense.

[Captain_Caveman]

There are only three teams that have four players scoring more than 16 ppg - Us, the Clippers, and OKC. Hayward is basically our 4th option. If you're expecting him to average 20+ ppg then you're going to be disappointed. He does need to be more consistent like he was during the first nine games of the season when he was our most consistent player. If he can get back there, then this team could be really good, if not, we'll have trouble making it out of the 1st Round but I believe Hayward's play will be the difference between making a good run or going out early.

I'm not 100% on board with not trading Hayward, mainly because I'm afraid that he will pull a Horford, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a trade that clearly makes the team better. I have yet to see that trade and honestly, I don't think that he has the trade value right now to replace himself (if that makes sense).

Unless management is really concerned about him leaving then I say stay the course, see who shakes loose in the buyout market and maybe make a minor trade to bolster the bench. Guys like Aaron Gordon and Robert Covington aren't better than Hayward and doesn't move the needle, at all.

I'm gonna highlight the underutilized 4th scorer point again, because I think it is the key to how this dude is perceived here. Been around long enough to know that the majority here really overemphasize per game scoring stats in evaluating players. Hayward averages 16.3ppg on 12.9 shots a game. If we were missing Tatum or Jaylen and Hayward were averaging 20.5ppg on 16 shots a game, no one would be complaining about him at all. I truly believe that.

In fact, I will go a step further and say that once you account for the differences in shots per game (and account for each additional ~2.3 free throw attempts essentially equating to an extra shot per game), there is little to no difference in the scoring efficiency of any of our top 4 right now, and that the slightly lesser PPG for Hayward is attributable almost solely to him having slightly less usage than the other 3 as a scorer.

Put another way, provided with 17 possessions a game each, all four would score 19-20ppg. If anything, Tatum would be the least efficient of the 4. For whatever reason, it is perceived differently on this board, but I don't think the facts support that.

[snowman]

Having 4 youngsters in Langford, 2xWilliams and Edwards there is no way Danny ads another 3 rookies in draft.

At minimum Milwaukee pick should be used in a trade to upgrade bench, if for a player on expiring contract, do what...one rookie less.

Picks are way to overated in today's nba.

You forgot about Green and Poirier are also rookies. And so are Waters and Fall for that matter. so that's 7 rookies out of 17 total players. Now add another 4 (3 1sts and a 2nd) ??!!! We have enough rookies. now we need to turn a few of them and the picks into bench vets.

[snowman]

after watching the Lakers game highlights (for the 6ht time lol) I'm thinking Semi and Edwards are the ones that need to be moved. G. Williams has been steady all season, Langford is being held back for some reason. I see some REAL potential in him, and I saw a few things in Poirier that I didn't know he had, like the three point shot.

So, I'm thinking M. Morris from Detroit for Semi and Edwards and the Mil pick to make it a grandfather offer, and call it a day. Gives us a tough big for the playoffs, that is a threat from 3. He also is signed for next season at 3.3 mil under a player option. Checks all the boxes for me.

[sam_I_am]

There are only three teams that have four players scoring more than 16 ppg - Us, the Clippers, and OKC. Hayward is basically our 4th option. If you're expecting him to average 20+ ppg then you're going to be disappointed. He does need to be more consistent like he was during the first nine games of the season when he was our most consistent player. If he can get back there, then this team could be really good, if not, we'll have trouble making it out of the 1st Round but I believe Hayward's play will be the difference between making a good run or going out early.

I'm not 100% on board with not trading Hayward, mainly because I'm afraid that he will pull a Horford, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a trade that clearly makes the team better. I have yet to see that trade and honestly, I don't think that he has the trade value right now to replace himself (if that makes sense).

Unless management is really concerned about him leaving then I say stay the course, see who shakes loose in the buyout market and maybe make a minor trade to bolster the bench. Guys like Aaron Gordon and Robert Covington aren't better than Hayward and doesn't move the needle, at all.

I'm gonna highlight the underutilized 4th scorer point again, because I think it is the key to how this dude is perceived here. Been around long enough to know that the majority here really overemphasize per game scoring stats in evaluating players. Hayward averages 16.3ppg on 12.9 shots a game. If we were missing Tatum or Jaylen and Hayward were averaging 20.5ppg on 16 shots a game, no one would be complaining about him at all. I truly believe that.

In fact, I will go a step further and say that once you account for the differences in shots per game (and account for each additional ~2.3 free throw attempts essentially equating to an extra shot per game), there is little to no difference in the scoring efficiency of any of our top 4 right now, and that the slightly lesser PPG for Hayward is attributable almost solely to him having slightly less usage than the other 3 as a scorer.

Put another way, provided with 17 possessions a game each, all four would score 19-20ppg. If anything, Tatum would be the least efficient of the 4. For whatever reason, it is perceived differently on this board, but I don't think the facts support that.

I can’t speak for anybody else but for me it’s not a numbers thing. It’s my perception that when the team is struggling and needs him to step up, he tends to miss bunnies, miss wide open 3s, has unforced TOs and gets scorched defensively. Now the Laker game was an awesome exception. I think it’s first time all year where the team was playing like crap and Hayward helped turn the tide.

Best thing for Hayward would be a trade to a team desperate for wing play and he can average 22/6/4. Then he can opt out and get his payday. Might be good for Celtics too if they rebalance roster as he is an unnecessary luxury when we have Tatum and Brown and Smart plus emergency options on Green and Langford.

[zoyathedestroya]

There are only three teams that have four players scoring more than 16 ppg - Us, the Clippers, and OKC. Hayward is basically our 4th option. If you're expecting him to average 20+ ppg then you're going to be disappointed. He does need to be more consistent like he was during the first nine games of the season when he was our most consistent player. If he can get back there, then this team could be really good, if not, we'll have trouble making it out of the 1st Round but I believe Hayward's play will be the difference between making a good run or going out early.

I'm not 100% on board with not trading Hayward, mainly because I'm afraid that he will pull a Horford, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a trade that clearly makes the team better. I have yet to see that trade and honestly, I don't think that he has the trade value right now to replace himself (if that makes sense).

Unless management is really concerned about him leaving then I say stay the course, see who shakes loose in the buyout market and maybe make a minor trade to bolster the bench. Guys like Aaron Gordon and Robert Covington aren't better than Hayward and doesn't move the needle, at all.

I'm gonna highlight the underutilized 4th scorer point again, because I think it is the key to how this dude is perceived here. Been around long enough to know that the majority here really overemphasize per game scoring stats in evaluating players. Hayward averages 16.3ppg on 12.9 shots a game. If we were missing Tatum or Jaylen and Hayward were averaging 20.5ppg on 16 shots a game, no one would be complaining about him at all. I truly believe that.

In fact, I will go a step further and say that once you account for the differences in shots per game (and account for each additional ~2.3 free throw attempts essentially equating to an extra shot per game), there is little to no difference in the scoring efficiency of any of our top 4 right now, and that the slightly lesser PPG for Hayward is attributable almost solely to him having slightly less usage than the other 3 as a scorer.

Put another way, provided with 17 possessions a game each, all four would score 19-20ppg. If anything, Tatum would be the least efficient of the 4. For whatever reason, it is perceived differently on this board, but I don't think the facts support that.

I've been harping on this point about usage/touches/shots since around this time last season that I'm now a meme-level Gordonstan. He's basically putting up similar production from his last season in Utah apart from scoring. It's really weird that people expect him to score more when he's only 4th in the totem pole and Cs' other three stars/scorers aren't exactly known as pass-first players. I think it's simple enough -- when the team employs the coach's system of constant motion and sharing the ball, Hayward thrives and the team is better for it. If the Jays (and Kemba) are just looking to attack on their own or if the team is more on a matchup-hunting spree, the offense becomes stagnant and Hayward becomes a glorified PJ Hunter on offense. Don't even know how many times he's been free on a cut or for a wing/corner three or is running ahead in transition and doesn't receive the ball or gets the ball late. What's he supposed to do? Join the others in forcing contested shots? (Smart is prone to this when the team is down and he tries to energize the team.) He plays within the system and tries to make the right play whether the team is up or down.

His "consistency" on offense is dependent on team play. I do think his defense has fallen off since he came back from the foot injury in December. This is the more concerning part of his game imo.