Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

What I do know is having a number 2 guy, who is shooting guard that cannot dribble, tries to shoot over 3 guys and has low BBIQ is never going to work on a championship team.

With the new CBA it will be disasterious paying him 300 million

This a dozen times. I’ve watched almost all of the games in Jaylen’s career and very little has changed for him.

He constantly does one of the following:

-gets the ball poked away from behind
-brings the ball too low and gets stripped
-throws his elbows like a muy thai fighter
-dribbles into well established defenders for more offensive fouls.
-is getting absolutely bamboozled on defense.

He can’t pass, he pouts a lot, can’t dribble, is usually happy to take an ill advised heat check. Frequently tries to make sure he gets his.

We will be on a treadmill if we sign Jaylen to anywhere near that super max. Just a really bad idea with that new CBA looming.

Good post. This isn't an overreaction to one bad game it is the fact we have seen him play 7 seasons and he never improves on his weaknesse.

[Curmudgeon]

Brown and Smart to OKC for SGA and Giddey

But it's unlikely that Brown will resign in OKC. Too bad.

[BK_2020]

Ill drop my trade idea that Ive said multiple times. I think Ingram could be a nice addition. His handles is far better than Tatum or Brown. He's also a much more natural playmaker. I also trust his shot making as well.

Love it. Let's do it

Agreed. A player that's always hurt and plays the same position as Tatum, exactly what the Celtics need!

With his length Ingram can easily play PF but he'll have to pack on some pounds.

[BK_2020]

I love him as a player, but I think the time has come to trade Marcus Smart.

I really do think he's made great strides as a PG the last few years. It does feel like ever game he makes a few mind numbingly bad/over aggressive passes on attempted alley-oops or backdoor cuts that just stop the camera entirely but I think he's a very good passer actually. As a ball handler you need to be aggressive enough looking for your shot that teams will play up on you, but if you're not a scorer you've got to rein that in... I think he's done a solid job of making strides there. I think he's made himself into a good, solid floor general PG type.

I have issues with his fit on this team both offensively and defensively though...

Offense. Championship offense needs to run through your best player(s). For us, that's Tatum and, to a lesser extent, Brown. Many want a better "true PG" or something, but unless that's an elite player it won't matter. Crunch time, big money moments need to run through your best players. And the problem with Smart is that in those moments where the ball has to go through them, he's a liability on offense. He's become a good on ball player, but when he does not have the ball in his hand he is not helping your offense. He's making it harder on whoever does have the ball.

Defensively, he's still great, but he's guard sized and so is Derrick White. Our defensive identity became tougher to maintain because it was built on switching and that's harder to do with 2 guard sized players out there.

In an ideal world, I'd love to trade him (plus draft picks) for OG Anunoby or Myles Turner. Dorian Finney probably a realistic option as well, though we shouldn't need to add picks,

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
OG or DFS / Hauser
Tatum / GWilliams / Gallinari
RWilliams / Horford

or

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
Tatum / Hauser
RWilliams / GWilliams / Gallinari
Turner / Horford

Smart plus two firsts for Turner works salarywise. Maybe we can finagle Nesmith back. We need some crazy on this team.

[JaMarco]

Love it. Let's do it

Agreed. A player that's always hurt and plays the same position as Tatum, exactly what the Celtics need!

With his length Ingram can easily play PF but he'll have to pack on some pounds.

He's going to do neither on the Celtics because NO isn't trading him for Brown. And Ingram can't play PF well no matter how many pounds he adds.

[Curmudgeon]

I have zero interest in Turner. Or Ayton for that matter.

[celtxman]

I think ultimately Brown isn't traded but I think he's going to be gone at the end of next season. Truly don't think Boston is dumb enough to offer this guy the supermax

Letting Brown go with no return at the end of next season isn't an option. We are ALL extremely angry right now but we need Celtics management to be doing their best work now to salvage this.
Jason Tatum said after the game "It is extremely important " to sign Brown. So unless the organization is on the same page as Tatum or your plan is to trade both Tatum and Brown. I believe Tatum stays and signs if Brown signs first.
We cant focus on the wrong amount of money that these players get. If Brown isn't the answer, getting 50 cents on the dollar for him can't be part of the equation or we'll be looking at this agonizing loss in the ECF as the "good old days".

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Brown and Smart to OKC for SGA and Giddey

But it's unlikely that Brown will resign in OKC. Too bad.

Even more unlikely Oklahoma would make that trade...

[BK_2020]

I think ultimately Brown isn't traded but I think he's going to be gone at the end of next season. Truly don't think Boston is dumb enough to offer this guy the supermax

Letting Brown go with no return at the end of next season isn't an option. We are ALL extremely angry right now but we need Celtics management to be doing their best work now to salvage this.
Jason Tatum said after the game "It is extremely important " to sign Brown. So unless the organization is on the same page as Tatum or your plan is to trade both Tatum and Brown. I believe Tatum stays and signs if Brown signs first.
We cant focus on the wrong amount of money that these players get. If Brown isn't the answer, getting 50 cents on the dollar for him can't be part of the equation or we'll be looking at this agonizing loss in the ECF as the "good old days".

I think there's 0% chance that Tatum views his fate as linked to Brown. Tatum will stay and sign if he's offered the supermax. If Brown walks for nothing and the team is weakened, Tatum won't be happy, but it's just not realistic to expect Tatum will refuse to sign unless Brown isn't given whatever he asks for.

[The Corey's]

Read on Twitter

Brown gonna be 30 and y'all still gonna be calling him young.

He just completed year 7 and he still can't dribble.

[celtxman]

I think ultimately Brown isn't traded but I think he's going to be gone at the end of next season. Truly don't think Boston is dumb enough to offer this guy the supermax

Letting Brown go with no return at the end of next season isn't an option. We are ALL extremely angry right now but we need Celtics management to be doing their best work now to salvage this.
Jason Tatum said after the game "It is extremely important " to sign Brown. So unless the organization is on the same page as Tatum or your plan is to trade both Tatum and Brown. I believe Tatum stays and signs if Brown signs first.
We cant focus on the wrong amount of money that these players get. If Brown isn't the answer, getting 50 cents on the dollar for him can't be part of the equation or we'll be looking at this agonizing loss in the ECF as the "good old days".

I think there's 0% chance that Tatum views his fate as linked to Brown. Tatum will stay and sign if he's offered the supermax. If Brown walks for nothing and the team is weakened, Tatum won't be happy, but it's just not realistic to expect Tatum will refuse to sign unless Brown isn't given whatever he asks for.

Tatum's fate is certainly tied to Brown or the return for Brown. Tatum states it is important to sign Brown and then they trade him for less than market value and Tatum is good to go to sign?
L

[Andrew McCeltic]

Brown and Smart to OKC for SGA and Giddey

But it's unlikely that Brown will resign in OKC. Too bad.

Even more unlikely Oklahoma would make that trade...

They'd pair Brown with SGA, not swap them.. might be able to get Giddey, Dort, and one of their young forwards...

[CelticFaninLBC]

I love him as a player, but I think the time has come to trade Marcus Smart.

I really do think he's made great strides as a PG the last few years. It does feel like ever game he makes a few mind numbingly bad/over aggressive passes on attempted alley-oops or backdoor cuts that just stop the camera entirely but I think he's a very good passer actually. As a ball handler you need to be aggressive enough looking for your shot that teams will play up on you, but if you're not a scorer you've got to rein that in... I think he's done a solid job of making strides there. I think he's made himself into a good, solid floor general PG type.

I have issues with his fit on this team both offensively and defensively though...

Offense. Championship offense needs to run through your best player(s). For us, that's Tatum and, to a lesser extent, Brown. Many want a better "true PG" or something, but unless that's an elite player it won't matter. Crunch time, big money moments need to run through your best players. And the problem with Smart is that in those moments where the ball has to go through them, he's a liability on offense. He's become a good on ball player, but when he does not have the ball in his hand he is not helping your offense. He's making it harder on whoever does have the ball.

Defensively, he's still great, but he's guard sized and so is Derrick White. Our defensive identity became tougher to maintain because it was built on switching and that's harder to do with 2 guard sized players out there.

In an ideal world, I'd love to trade him (plus draft picks) for OG Anunoby or Myles Turner. Dorian Finney probably a realistic option as well, though we shouldn't need to add picks,

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
OG or DFS / Hauser
Tatum / GWilliams / Gallinari
RWilliams / Horford

or

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
Tatum / Hauser
RWilliams / GWilliams / Gallinari
Turner / Horford

Agree they need to deal Smart and bring in someone who is an upgrade over Big Al.

Unfortunately this move probably doesn't solve this team's biggest problem, which is relying too much on 3's.

Fire Joe!

[Curmudgeon]

Want to have a no defense, 3 point happy team? Trade Smart.

[Larry_Russell]

Read on Twitter

Brown gonna be 30 and y'all still gonna be calling him young.

He just completed year 7 and he still can't dribble.

Who the **** is this Box and one people.
Actually I dont care. They are wrong.

7 years of Brown, no improvement in what this team needs.


Doesnt mean brown isnt a great talent, but it means that his skills dont fit with Tatum. And it was evidenced the last 2 seasons when push came to shove.

We need an on ball scorer who can break down a defense and playmake, make 3 point shos off kickouts, and go iso if needed without turning the ball over.

Brown cannot do those things at all.


And I would gladly keep him if he wasnt going to get paid 50 million dollars next season. 25 million....sure...keep him and find the skills needed outside of him.

Not gonna happen.

need center help, need a PF and need a point guard who can score and penetrate.

How the **** getting that when paying Brown 50 million and Tatum 40 million. 80% of team payroll in 2 guys. Cannot work.


Brown needs to go.
Maybe Smart or Brogdon (probably Brogs due to health)

Needs are a penetrating point guard who can score and a starting PF

??/Pritchard
White/Smart
Tatum/??
??/Grant
Timelord/Horford


Brown for Simons and #3
Muscala to Charlotte for Martin and Richards (Charlotte saves 8.5 million this season and for the next 2 more)

Simons/Pritchard/Davidson
Smart/White/Begarin
Tatum/Martin/Hauser
??/Grant/Gallo
Timelord/Horford/Kabengele

Use #3 to grab a starting PF (trade or draft)

[Froob]

The Blazers trade for the third pick is the only realistic trade I’ve seen pitched.

However, I wonder if there’s any shot at Kawhi or George being moved.

[djFan71]

Twist on the simons, 3 thing.

POR : brown for Simons, 3
IND: 3, Kornet for Turner, 7
TOR: 7, Brogdon for OG
BOS: Simons, Turner, OG for Brown, Brogdon p, Kornet

Unsure in the Indy/TOR parts. Feels like TOR could add a little to IND.
Maybe Hauser and / or Pritchard to IND for salary balance as well.

I like it but it does force Brown to be a PF, not sure that is the right move.

But a small tweak lets Siakam come back instead, which makes more sense for Toronto, imo.

Portland:Brown for Simons, 3 and #23
Indy: #3, Timelord, Kornet for Turner and #7
Toronto: #7, BRogdon for Siakam
Boston: Simons, Siakam, Turner

I like Siakam too, but if we're getting Turner I like OG back more. If you trade JB you need a wing back. With OG & Turner. You can go big with 2 of Turner/Rob/Al or small with OG/Grant.

[Duke4life831]

Read on Twitter

My push back to this tweet would be, you have all of those things but the same results seem to be happening year after year. At what point do you say there is a flaw somewhere in this group and that is creating a ceiling.

To me the biggest flaw with this core is the fact Tatum and Brown dont really play off of one another. And Brown doesnt have the skill set to be that #1 role when Tatum sits.

I think the formula is good enough to make a deep playoff run most years because of just the talent advantage. All you need is just 1 of the 2 guys to go off and you have good enough role players and are facing not legit contenders early in the playoffs and you can get passed them. But once you get to the other elite teams. Well now you need both guys to go off to have a better chance to win. And since neither really play off of each other, if one isnt having a good game. The other guy cant really help him out. Because he kind of just stands around on offense waiting for his turn to try his own thing.

So I think it gets to the point where you are walking the line of, "look how close weve come so often, we're bound to make that next step sooner or late" to "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome."

Add in the future financial aspects into this equation as well. I think its time to shake things up

[hugepatsfan]

Trade #1:

BOS gives: Brown, Gallinari
BOS gets: Siakam

POR gives: #3, Simons
POR gets: Brown

TOR gives: Siakam
TOR gets: #3, Simons, Gallinari

Deal has been discussed a lot. We get scoring diversification and save money on a long term extension.

Trade #2:

BOS gets: Huerter, Holmes
SAC gets: Smart, GWilliams (S&T)

Deal works if Grant signs for a $14M salary in year 1. SAC adds Grant (a rumored target with their cap space) to improve their stable of forwards without renouncing the MLE or Harrison Barnes' bird rights by sending out Holmes. Smart helps their ailing perimeter defense on the ball without having to play the offensively unplayable Davion Mitchell.

Trade #3:

BOS gets: Finney-Smith
BRK gets: Pritchard, Hauser, Muscala, Kornet, '24 1st rounder

BRK cashes in on their forward surplus for a pick while returning a good bench shooter in Hauser to replace him. Pritchard and Muscala would be 2nd on their depth chart at PG and C so that's more playable depth and shooting for them.

Our new lineup:

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum / DFS
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford / Holmes

I like that mix of players. I think our offensive and defensive versatility gets better there.

[Hal14]

Honestly, I feel like Tatum and White are the only guys I am definitely keeping. I'm open to pretty much any moves that Brad thinks can make the team better.

I doubt Brad has the balls to trade JB or Smart. But i think moving 1 (or both) of them could be a good idea.

Brogdon and JB. 1 of them should probably get moved. Both of them dribbled too much, didn't pass enough. Killed ball movement. And didn't bring enough in other areas (defense, rebounding, etc.) to make up for it. And both make too much $ (JB will REALLY be making too much $ if he signs the supermax) for what they give you. Both were not very good in terms of advanced stats, on/off rating and stuff.

Need to somehow add another big man. Al will be 37 next season. For a good amount of this season (and playoffs) he just wasn't that good, started to really show his age. I think ideally you slot him into a lesser role next season of only like 20-24 mins off the bench. You hopefully start Rob at the 5, but need to limit him to no more than 28-29 MPG to keep him healthy.

Perhaps you just hope that Muscala or Gallo can be that 3rd big. We saw what a full offseason and full training camp did for d-white - perhaps we'll see something similar with Muscala next season (to a lesser extent obviously. Not saying muscala is as good as white, just that he could make a similar jump in terms of what he did in 3 months after being traded mid season compared to what he does the following season) and Gallo will be healthy next season.

But I feel like we need to add another big who can protect the rim, rebound and catch lobs. We only have 1 big who can do those things now (rob) and he gets hurt a lot. And even if healthy, I think ideally you have 2 bigs who can do those things. That's 1 reason why I'm high on drafting Trayce Jackson-Davis with our 2nd round pick. If we don't draft him, perhaps we draft someone else like James Nnaji or Adem Bona, or add a big via free agency/trade..