Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

[165bows]

“Jazz interested in…” curse lands on Tyler Herro.

Move over John Collins, the extended trade block has a new resident.

[ddb]

The fact that people are comparing OG to Jaylen is downright embarrassing. I don't care if OG was on a minimum and Jaylen is supermaxed. Jaylen is the much better player, and the player you'd rather have on your team. Period. There's no debate. No stats. Nothing to draw comparisons of the two. Simply put, if you replaced JB with OG, you're a worse basketball team.

I agree. There is no comparison. Only thing positive you can get from OG, is he’s a lot cheaper. Plus, he’s also a wing, so i don’t think he fits better with JT. The only time a wing would fit well with Jt, is if that wing is dead set shooter. I still want Brown Traded, but not for OG. For siakam? Maybe.

Brown/Brogdon for Siakam/OG. I'm down with that. I'll play ball with that kind of deal. But that ain't happening

[Hal14]

I agree.

Brown is a superior offensive player.


But the debate is, can OG be a more significant player if given as much opportunity as Brown.

Right now OG is 100% superior defensively, and IMO the gap is pretty substantial. Could OG be a more productive offensive player as a 2nd option though.

OG has never SNIFFED at Jaylens usage. OGs highest season was 20.5 and Browns LOWEST was 18.1
Last season OG had a usage of 19.5 compared to Browns 31.5.

Per 100 Jaylen scores 36ppg on 28shots or 1.28 points per shot
Per 100 OG Scorers 23 on 18shots or 1.27 points per shot

an arguement can be made that with more attempts and opportunity OGs efficiency goes down, but it looks like his efficiency is on par with Jaylens. OG is a superior shooter, so perhaps that efficiency stays with increased opportunity.


Also Browns Turnover per 100 is 4
OGs is 2.7

I like OG a lot personally. I think he is a better FIT for the team right now with Tatum and KP on it. Would be lethal defensively too.

I also like OG at 20-30 million more than Jaylen at 50-60 million

White
OG
Tatum
Porzingas
Timelord

I agree. 60M to brown is just too much. Maybe during last years regular season, i would laugh at this, but seeing Jaylen can’t step up when needed in the playoffs, doesn’t justify paying him the smax, despite getting 2nd team all nba. I tell you, that’s the last time he’ll get an award as a celtic. He got exposed hard against the heat. Getting outplayed by Caleb Martin lol.

Jaylen Brown was horrible against the Heat no one can dispute that but Jaylen Brown averaging 25 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 3.5 apg on 54% shooting and 47% three point shooting against the Hawks and Sixers doesn't count?

People don't have to like Jaylen Brown which is fine but comparing him to players like OG, Hunter etc. is just embarrassing.

No one said anything about Hunter.

But guys like OG and Zach Lavine are certainly comparable to JB according to most advanced stats. PPG is a really weak, outdated way to measure player performance - especially when we're a team that has a guy who averages 30 PPG (Tatum) and another guy who averages over 20 PPG (KP)..

Countless times (both in reg season and in playoffs) people on here complained about how poorly we were playing defensively. How we weren't locked in enough on D, we were giving up easy baskets, giving up on looks from 3. OG is a much better defender than JB..

[BK_2020]

In the playoffs Jaylen got to face off against the likes of Bogdanovich, Niang, Gabe Vincent, Saddiq Bey and Tyrese Maxey. It's difficult to overstate how much he benefits from having a top 7 teammate who plays the same position. Few teams have two good wing defenders. Some don't even have one.

[Hal14]

Keep in mind, everyone - this is all in good fun. These aren't real trades, they're hypothetical. Let's not get our feathers ruffled up too much

I definitely didn't think that when I posted a hypothetical trade of JB for OG + Boucher (plus picks?) it would result in this much of a circus..

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Worth noting Cs lost maybe their 2nd best boxout guy in Grant. And their best non-big boxout guy in Smart. We will just have to outjump and outlength the competition.

[165bows]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

[zoyathedestroya]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

No real center. Not even close to the calibre of Horford or Timelord. They were 5th in defense post-ASB after they traded for Poeltl. Their guards are also FVV and GTJ, nowhere close to Smart and DWhite in defensive capability.

[Triple7]

The fact that people are comparing OG to Jaylen is downright embarrassing. I don't care if OG was on a minimum and Jaylen is supermaxed. Jaylen is the much better player, and the player you'd rather have on your team. Period. There's no debate. No stats. Nothing to draw comparisons of the two. Simply put, if you replaced JB with OG, you're a worse basketball team.

Why are you surprised? Just curious. 75% of this board has wanted Brown/Brogdon gone since Smart got traded. You even had a thread posted on this board asking people who would they rather keep, Brown or Marcus Smart and Smart got quite a few votes. There's three types of fans that want to trade Brown on this board.

Fans that are obsessed about Wyc's bank account and check book
Marcus Smart Stans that for some reason blame Brown for him being gone even though Marcus said they had no beef and thus will give Brown away for spare parts just because...
People who think that Brown will demand a trade.

I'm more of the third option where he's probably going to demand a trade. But say they max him out and he has a career year and then asks out next year. Wouldn't you get a package better than what you would this offseason? He'd have term on his contract and would be All NBA again and would still be young. This is why trading him now for 70 cents on the dollar doesn't make any sense.

He won’t have a career year next year. Not with Tatum and Porzingis on board. I think he’s peaked already. He won’t get better stats next year if he stays a celtic. Nobody would want that 295M. We would end up getting half of his value, or end up getting an awful one as well. He’s not a number 1 player. He won’t suddenly learn how to dribble left, and learn to pass the ball.

[165bows]

Read on Twitter

Worth noting Cs lost maybe their 2nd best boxout guy in Grant. And their best non-big boxout guy in Smart. We will just have to outjump and outlength the competition.

Interesting that Grant is indeed in 5/6 of the best two man lineups groups in terms of defreb%. Also jumps out the let’s call it most controversial guy does stand out very frequently in the majority of bottom-most pairs.

Not worried about it at all though this team should get 5000+ minutes from Zinger/Al/Rob, this team will be huge.

Best rebounding unit over the season on D was White/Hauser/Tatum/Rob/Al and they can run a ton of that sort of lineup now with three good bigs instead of two, esp with Zingers shooting.

[Hal14]

In the playoffs Jaylen got to face off against the likes of Bogdanovich, Niang, Gabe Vincent, Saddiq Bey and Tyrese Maxey. It's difficult to overstate how much he benefits from having a top 7 teammate who plays the same position. Few teams have two good wing defenders. Some don't even have one.

Yes, and OG often times had the opposing team's best wing defender on him.

[165bows]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

No real center. Not even close to the calibre of Horford or Timelord. They were 5th in defense post-ASB after they traded for Poeltl. Their guards are also FVV and GTJ, nowhere close to Smart and DWhite in defensive capability.

Excuses excuses. 15th the year before that.

These guys are the Jaylen Brown of defense, not worth $295 dollars.

[sam_I_am]

Ill sub in. Since you were quoting EPM. lets look at those ratings. More specifically at offensive EPM. OG has a career high of 0.6 o-epm and last year he was a 0. OG's value entirely comes on the defensive end. He's closer to grant williams in offense than jaylen. Not quite as low usage and limited but not too far off. If you wanna talk TS, they had equal ts combined over the last 3 season with last year being equal and the previous 2 one being in favor of jaylen and the other OG. That is despite the fact that OG tops out at 20% usage and Jaylen does 30%. A huge difference, i'd bet you my left arm OG's ts would drop off dramatically if he were forced to absorb more usage. Something we can see if we look at lineups where FVV doesnt play and OG has a bigger role, the raptors offense falls of a cliff. Same with Siakam off, FVV and OG on btw.

Saying you prefer og on 30 mil vs jaylen on 60 mil is fine, its whatever. But they are not close to a similarly talented player offensively at all. OG cannot be a third option for a good offensive team

I agree.

Brown is a superior offensive player.


But the debate is, can OG be a more significant player if given as much opportunity as Brown.

Right now OG is 100% superior defensively, and IMO the gap is pretty substantial. Could OG be a more productive offensive player as a 2nd option though.

OG has never SNIFFED at Jaylens usage. OGs highest season was 20.5 and Browns LOWEST was 18.1
Last season OG had a usage of 19.5 compared to Browns 31.5.

Per 100 Jaylen scores 36ppg on 28shots or 1.28 points per shot
Per 100 OG Scorers 23 on 18shots or 1.27 points per shot

an arguement can be made that with more attempts and opportunity OGs efficiency goes down, but it looks like his efficiency is on par with Jaylens. OG is a superior shooter, so perhaps that efficiency stays with increased opportunity.


Also Browns Turnover per 100 is 4
OGs is 2.7

I like OG a lot personally. I think he is a better FIT for the team right now with Tatum and KP on it. Would be lethal defensively too.

I also like OG at 20-30 million more than Jaylen at 50-60 million

White
OG
Tatum
Porzingas
Timelord

I agree. 60M to brown is just too much. Maybe during last years regular season, i would laugh at this, but seeing Jaylen can’t step up when needed in the playoffs, doesn’t justify paying him the smax, despite getting 2nd team all nba. I tell you, that’s the last time he’ll get an award as a celtic. He got exposed hard against the heat. Getting outplayed by Caleb Martin lol.

Jaylen for 60 million is the price to keep an important franchise asset. Worst case scenario by signing him is that we end up with a Tobias Harris-like overpaid but very useful player. Trading him now means accepting a diminished return regardless of what you think of him. He has no value to Toronto or Portland who wouldn’t be able to extend him or resign him. Next year, Toronto might pony up a lot to get a top 30 player locked up for 5 years.

[zoyathedestroya]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

No real center. Not even close to the calibre of Horford or Timelord. They were 5th in defense post-ASB after they traded for Poeltl. Their guards are also FVV and GTJ, nowhere close to Smart and DWhite in defensive capability.

Excuses excuses. 15th the year before that.

These guys are the Jaylen Brown of defense, not worth $295 dollars.

Anunoby is the real deal defensively. Wouldn't have been voted 2nd team all-defense otherwise. Perennial all-defense candidate past few years. Ranks in the 90th+ percentile most defensive metrics despite average team performance on that end.

[zoyathedestroya]

Nothing new from Amick's latest news article. Harden still wants to go to the Clippers but Morey holding firm and Sixers likely keeping him for now. Heat-Blazers negotiations moving real slow, if at all. Cronin waiting on other offers. This could drag on for a while unless Heat up their offer (no reason to if no one else is bidding).

Heat "missing out" on some of these free agents while waiting for Dame:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I still hope they get Wood, Oubre, and Barton for the vibes. Bring back Dion Waiters too while they're at it.

[cloverleaf]

No real center. Not even close to the calibre of Horford or Timelord. They were 5th in defense post-ASB after they traded for Poeltl. Their guards are also FVV and GTJ, nowhere close to Smart and DWhite in defensive capability.

Excuses excuses. 15th the year before that.

These guys are the Jaylen Brown of defense, not worth $295 dollars.

Anunoby is the real deal defensively. Wouldn't have been voted 2nd team all-defense otherwise. Perennial all-defense candidate past few years. Ranks in the 90th+ percentile most defensive metrics despite average team performance on that end.

Anunoby is also a much better shooter than JB.

[hugepatsfan]

LAC gives: Morris, Coffey, a bunch of future 2nds
LAC gets: Brogdon

DET gives: Bogdanovich
DET gets: Morris, Coffey, 2024 GSW 1st

WAS gives: Wright
WAS gets: Pritchard, 2nds from LAC

BOS gives: Brogdon, Pritchard, 2024 GSW 1st
BOS gets; Bogdanovich, Wright

Not a huge fan of that "value" for us, but I think with Brogdon's market so limited by multiple years and injury risk, it's what it would take to make this deal. And I really, really love the ensuing playoff rotation:

White (33) / Wright (15)
Brown (37) / Tatum (11)
Tatum (28) / Bogi (20)
Porzingis (33) / Bogi (10) / Hoford (5)
RWilliams (28) / Horford (20)

[Larry_Russell]

Simply put, if you replaced JB with OG, you're a worse basketball team.

Maybe.

Replacing Brown with what would be OG plus more...could well be a different story.

I think OG might be the better fit, but the value isnt the same, and someone like BOucher isnt closing that gap.

[Larry_Russell]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

Prime Rodman on that team would not have saved that defense.

[keevsnick1]

Siakam and OG are supposed to be these high end defenders but they’ve led a defense that was 12th and 10th the past two years.

Siakam is, in no way, a high end defender. i get he LOOKS like he should be, but he's more "fine" then high end.

OG is legit great.