A lot of Celtics Trash rumors part 3

[CollegeToPros]

The longer OKC waits to trade Westbrook the less leverage they have and the less they will get. Period. Anyone who think OKC will keep Russ and end up losing Durant and Westbrook in back to back years while getting NOTHING in return is simply nuts. Not a fn chance. He's getting traded and it's a questio of when not if. Danny should play hardball and dangle the 18 Nets pick and scraps for now. No rush. Play OKC and Clips against each other so maybe one bites for a package we make off like bandits with.

I agree. We are not the team that has to rush. They are. We're good.


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[truth18]

i like eggs

Never been a fan of straight up eggs. Enjoy many products with eggs in them though.

I think that would be a stupid move and very out of character for Ainge to do that.

Not out of character for Wyc though.

[BannersOnly]

Plus why would OKC wait until the trade deadline to deal Russ? It hurts their leverage and their draft position next June. If they package him now than they can TANK this season and get themselves a Top 5 pick next June. And if they deal him to Boston and get the Nets 2018 pick than they are have two more Top 5-10 picks in the 18 draft. Presti is going to deal him this summer and TANK this year. That's his best option.

[canman1971]

The longer OKC waits to trade Westbrook the less leverage they have and the less they will get. Period. Anyone who think OKC will keep Russ and end up losing Durant and Westbrook in back to back years while getting NOTHING in return is simply nuts. Not a fn chance. He's getting traded and it's a questio of when not if. Danny should play hardball and dangle the 18 Nets pick and scraps for now. No rush. Play OKC and Clips against each other so maybe one bites for a package we make off like bandits with.

Yes, true. But teams traditionally do this. Hence the reason GMs get fired.

[Tai]

Jaylen, Thomas and BKN pick, the guy is nuts...

Thats absolutely the minimum asking price for Russ. Dude is a top 5 player in this league and could very easily be the best player in the league next season (so can 3 or other 4 players). I dont think Boston should trade a bunch for him, but I also dont think OKC should ever ever sell him cheap. That guy is wayyy too good.

He has not to run the 100mt at the Olympics or play tennis at Wimbledon, nobody cares if he is top 5 in the NBA, one all star and two top 3 picks are too much for anybody right now in the NBA, there's not really a game changing talent, no Bird, no MJ, no Bill Russell, just a bunch of talented guys with no real leverage on the team as a whole, plus he is going to take off and say bye bye to OKC anyway next year...

I'm sorry; this isn't Wadeitout bad but what are you talking about? What does Olympics or Wimbeldon have to do with this? If you don't think it matters that Westbrook is a top 5 player then I'm not sure what to tell you; did you mean you don't think he is? Cause that's a better debate, maybe he is maybe he's not, but we agree he'd be the Celtics' best player today, don't we?

Which leads me to my next point; too much for Westbrook? Perhaps, but I agree with mademan; OKC may as well sell high for Westbrook if they'll sell him at all. He IS way too good; saying he's not MJ doesn't change that.

Now, a Westbrook/Griffin led team not good enough to beat the Cavs? Hmm...I dunno. I agree we don't want to blow the farm to make it happen, but I'd like it better than our current team.


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[Tyakack]

Blake better be a celtic by the end of the night. I'm not getting drunk for nothing...............Well ok, yes I am... But my first point still stands.

[the sea duck]

That was an absolutely horrific idea. Tanking is a symptom of the problem, it isn't the problem.

I liked the wheel idea not only for eliminating tanking incentive, but also because it created known trading commodities. Right now when teams trade draft picks, it's like a lottery sometimes where it will fall. With the wheel, they would know exactly which pick they were trading.

Of course, this pays off sometimes in a way that I like (see Brooklyn picks owed to Boston). But overall the quality of trades probably improves if everyone knows with certainty what they are trading for.

The downside is supposed to be that sometimes good teams will get high draft picks, however this would not be any worse than Kevin Durant going to Golden State. If we're ok with that, I don't think we can complain about good teams adding a good rookie.

Yeah but then good teams will be getting good before getting their top pick(s), meaning it's not unfair. It all goes to the merit of their work and organization.

Effectively, the Golden State Warriors won the lottery with the combination of factors needed to add Kevin Durant to what they already had. It is extremely unlikely anything with this impact would happen in The Wheel system. It would be quite rare to have the best team land a Kevin Durant type prospect (and even when they do it would not be the player in his prime). So nothing the Wheel would produce would be this bad.

Celtics just won 48 games and got the 3rd pick. Not the end of the world for the rest of the league (some Celtics fan aren't even optimistic about the outcome). Detroit won 50 games and went to the conference finals in 2003; drafted #2 overall. Wasn't the end of the world. In fact had almost no positive impact.

The Spurs championships were kick started by essentially a good team tanking for one year and going on to become great for two decades, but we were all kind of ok with it. The league didn't shut down because it wasn't fair.

So in The Wheel system, we know good teams will get good (on paper) picks. Some will work out very well, some will not. The League will essentially continue as it has in the past but with better quality trades of known commodities and rebuilding without tanking.

[mademan]

Plus why would OKC wait until the trade deadline to deal Russ? It hurts their leverage and their draft position next June. If they package him now than they can TANK this season and get themselves a Top 5 pick next June. And if they deal him to Boston and get the Nets 2018 pick than they are have two more Top 5-10 picks in the 18 draft. Presti is going to deal him this summer and TANK this year. That's his best option.

If getting a pick 2 years down the line is the best option for OKC, then they are incredibly dumb to trade Westbrook. Keep him and hope you can entice him with money. It is an extra 40 mill guaranteed when he'll be 32 and outside his athletic prime. That with the extra raises makes it a pretty big payday to turn down. Same goes for Griffin and LAC. These guys depend on athleticism and have been a little injury prone the last couple years, maybe they're camp will convince them to take the extra money. Thats a much better play than a 2018 pick

To me, Blakes a better bet to get relatively cheap (relative being the key word). Doc is a worse GM (less patient) and will be looking for role players (Crowder/Gay) that can be bought easier.

[chrisab123]

Blake better be a celtic by the end of the night. I'm not getting drunk for nothing...............Well ok, yes I am... But my first point still stands.

The Danny Ainge rumor game. Here are the rules

Everytime Stonewall Sieve tweets a trade is close, take a shot.

Everytime Sieve goes Donald Trump on a retweeter, take two.

Everytime Bullpet shoots a rumor down have a double of 151.

Everyone should now be hammered by the end of the night.

You're welcome

[KamikazeK]

Plus why would OKC wait until the trade deadline to deal Russ? It hurts their leverage and their draft position next June. If they package him now than they can TANK this season and get themselves a Top 5 pick next June. And if they deal him to Boston and get the Nets 2018 pick than they are have two more Top 5-10 picks in the 18 draft. Presti is going to deal him this summer and TANK this year. That's his best option.

If getting a pick 2 years down the line is the best option for OKC, then they are incredibly dumb to trade Westbrook. Keep him and hope you can entice him with money. It is an extra 40 mill guaranteed when he'll be 32 and outside his athletic prime. That with the extra raises makes it a pretty big payday to turn down. Same goes for Griffin and LAC. These guys depend on athleticism and have been a little injury prone the last couple years, maybe they're camp will convince them to take the extra money. Thats a much better play than a 2018 pick

To me, Blakes a better bet to get relatively cheap (relative being the key word). Doc is a worse GM (less patient) and will be looking for role players (Crowder/Gay) that can be bought easier.

1) Get some decent young talent and picks

or

2) Go through a pointless year, maybe make the playoffs, then lose your second superstar in a 12-month period for absolutely nothing.


And you think #1 is the "incredibly dumb" option?

[mademan]

I liked the wheel idea not only for eliminating tanking incentive, but also because it created known trading commodities. Right now when teams trade draft picks, it's like a lottery sometimes where it will fall. With the wheel, they would know exactly which pick they were trading.

Of course, this pays off sometimes in a way that I like (see Brooklyn picks owed to Boston). But overall the quality of trades probably improves if everyone knows with certainty what they are trading for.

The downside is supposed to be that sometimes good teams will get high draft picks, however this would not be any worse than Kevin Durant going to Golden State. If we're ok with that, I don't think we can complain about good teams adding a good rookie.

Yeah but then good teams will be getting good before getting their top pick(s), meaning it's not unfair. It all goes to the merit of their work and organization.

Effectively, the Golden State Warriors won the lottery with the combination of factors needed to add Kevin Durant to what they already had. It is extremely unlikely anything with this impact would happen in The Wheel system. It would be quite rare to have the best team land a Kevin Durant type prospect (and even when they do it would not be the player in his prime). So nothing the Wheel would produce would be this bad.

Celtics just won 48 games and got the 3rd pick. Not the end of the world for the rest of the league (some Celtics fan aren't even optimistic about the outcome). Detroit won 50 games and went to the conference finals in 2003; drafted #2 overall. Wasn't the end of the world. In fact had almost no positive impact.

The Spurs championships were kick started by essentially a good team tanking for one year and going on to become great for two decades, but we were all kind of ok with it. The league didn't shut down because it wasn't fair.

So in The Wheel system, we know good teams will get good (on paper) picks. Some will work out very well, some will not. The League will essentially continue as it has in the past but with better quality trades of known commodities and rebuilding without tanking.

Another problem with the wheel system is that it gives players motivation to stay in school later. Say Lebron is coming out of the draft and MIL has the 1st overall pick but the Lakers have the pick the next year. How many endorsement offers would Lebron get to stay in school for 1 more year and force his way to LA?

[ZeroTolerance]

Never been a fan of straight up eggs. Enjoy many products with eggs in them though.

I think that would be a stupid move and very out of character for Ainge to do that.

Not out of character for Wyc though.

I tend to doubt that Wyc made all his money by doing stupid business deals.

What I've been reading in this thread amounts to a stupid business deal.

You just don't hold a fire sale unless you have had a fire or you are getting out of the business altogether.

This crap that is being passed around this table this afternoon tastes worse than my potato salad!

It ain't even fit to feed to your dog!

[chakdaddy]

That was an absolutely horrific idea. Tanking is a symptom of the problem, it isn't the problem.

I liked the wheel idea not only for eliminating tanking incentive, but also because it created known trading commodities. Right now when teams trade draft picks, it's like a lottery sometimes where it will fall. With the wheel, they would know exactly which pick they were trading.

Of course, this pays off sometimes in a way that I like (see Brooklyn picks owed to Boston). But overall the quality of trades probably improves if everyone knows with certainty what they are trading for.

The downside is supposed to be that sometimes good teams will get high draft picks, however this would not be any worse than Kevin Durant going to Golden State. If we're ok with that, I don't think we can complain about good teams adding a good rookie.

Yeah but then good teams will be getting good before getting their top pick(s), meaning it's not unfair. It all goes to the merit of their work and organization.

Yuck, the pro sports should be capitalism theory? Coke and Pepsi get all the players and the public watches competition between 30 other RC and Faygo teams that fold one by one?

What will happen when our #1 falls on a bargnani or K-Mart year? We wait another 30 years and have very little way to get better.

There are much more elegant and less gimmicky ways to make the lottery fair and eliminate tanking while keeping the standard worse teams pick 1st format that all sports use for a reason. Equal odds for 3-4 worst teams, smooth minor drops in odds for the rest, draw more picks so a few 5-4 jumps make up for 1-3 falls...and finally weigh 3 years worth of records.

[BannersOnly]

Plus why would OKC wait until the trade deadline to deal Russ? It hurts their leverage and their draft position next June. If they package him now than they can TANK this season and get themselves a Top 5 pick next June. And if they deal him to Boston and get the Nets 2018 pick than they are have two more Top 5-10 picks in the 18 draft. Presti is going to deal him this summer and TANK this year. That's his best option.

If getting a pick 2 years down the line is the best option for OKC, then they are incredibly dumb to trade Westbrook. Keep him and hope you can entice him with money. It is an extra 40 mill guaranteed when he'll be 32 and outside his athletic prime. That with the extra raises makes it a pretty big payday to turn down. Same goes for Griffin and LAC. These guys depend on athleticism and have been a little injury prone the last couple years, maybe they're camp will convince them to take the extra money. Thats a much better play than a 2018 pick

That makes no sense. If they took your advice and didn't take the Nets 2018 pick than they would end up winning enough games this season to be out of the lottery, lose Russ in free agency and then have no incoming asset to show for it. If they take my advice, they flip Russ to some team that will give them some players/picks(at least one high lottery pick) and end up TANKING this season and have a top 5 pick in the 2017 draft from tanking plus have another top 5-10 pick in 2018 from the Nets.

I understand you think a top 5 NBA player is worth more than a 2018 top 5-10 lottery pick plus some scraps(ie Rozier for example) but if that's the best offer they can get than they are foolish to not take it. Period. They need high lottery picks to rebuild and they can get THREE of them if they trade Russ this summer and TANK the next two years plus have the Nets 2018 pick too. That's three top 5-10 lottery picks the next two drafts that they won't have if they foolishly hang onto Russ until the trade deadline or all season.

[mademan]

Plus why would OKC wait until the trade deadline to deal Russ? It hurts their leverage and their draft position next June. If they package him now than they can TANK this season and get themselves a Top 5 pick next June. And if they deal him to Boston and get the Nets 2018 pick than they are have two more Top 5-10 picks in the 18 draft. Presti is going to deal him this summer and TANK this year. That's his best option.

If getting a pick 2 years down the line is the best option for OKC, then they are incredibly dumb to trade Westbrook. Keep him and hope you can entice him with money. It is an extra 40 mill guaranteed when he'll be 32 and outside his athletic prime. That with the extra raises makes it a pretty big payday to turn down. Same goes for Griffin and LAC. These guys depend on athleticism and have been a little injury prone the last couple years, maybe they're camp will convince them to take the extra money. Thats a much better play than a 2018 pick

To me, Blakes a better bet to get relatively cheap (relative being the key word). Doc is a worse GM (less patient) and will be looking for role players (Crowder/Gay) that can be bought easier.

1) Get some decent young talent and picks

or

2) Go through a pointless year, maybe make the playoffs, then lose your second superstar in a 12-month period for absolutely nothing.


And you think #1 is the "incredibly dumb" option?

#1 gives you mediocre talent that will most likely never even attain All-Star level. #2 isnt written in stone (him leaving). Id rather risk losing Westbrook than trading him for anything less than very very good value

[the sea duck]

That was an absolutely horrific idea. Tanking is a symptom of the problem, it isn't the problem.

I liked the wheel idea not only for eliminating tanking incentive, but also because it created known trading commodities. Right now when teams trade draft picks, it's like a lottery sometimes where it will fall. With the wheel, they would know exactly which pick they were trading.

Of course, this pays off sometimes in a way that I like (see Brooklyn picks owed to Boston). But overall the quality of trades probably improves if everyone knows with certainty what they are trading for.

The downside is supposed to be that sometimes good teams will get high draft picks, however this would not be any worse than Kevin Durant going to Golden State. If we're ok with that, I don't think we can complain about good teams adding a good rookie.

Yeah but the issue is it's hard to acquire talent and it's hard to compete because of super teams forming. How does eliminating tanking fix this?

It doesn't solve all of the League's problems. But it creates an environment in which teams are dealing in known commodities.

I agree with you that talent distribution (due to a variety of factors) is a problem that creates tanking. But tanking is a problem that can be solved on it's own. Talent distribution across the league is much more difficult to solve. My thought is why not solve one problem, even if it is not THE problem, while you can.

[truth18]

I think that would be a stupid move and very out of character for Ainge to do that.

Not out of character for Wyc though.

I tend to doubt that Wyc made all his money by doing stupid business deals.

What I've been reading in this thread amounts to a stupid business deal.

You just don't hold a fire sale unless you have had a fire or you are getting out of the business altogether.

This crap that is being passed around this table this afternoon tastes worse than my potato salad!

It ain't even fit to feed to your dog!

You are totally missing my point, but it's all good. I trust in Danny to tell Wyc to **** off.

[BannersOnly]

If getting a pick 2 years down the line is the best option for OKC, then they are incredibly dumb to trade Westbrook. Keep him and hope you can entice him with money. It is an extra 40 mill guaranteed when he'll be 32 and outside his athletic prime. That with the extra raises makes it a pretty big payday to turn down. Same goes for Griffin and LAC. These guys depend on athleticism and have been a little injury prone the last couple years, maybe they're camp will convince them to take the extra money. Thats a much better play than a 2018 pick

To me, Blakes a better bet to get relatively cheap (relative being the key word). Doc is a worse GM (less patient) and will be looking for role players (Crowder/Gay) that can be bought easier.

1) Get some decent young talent and picks

or

2) Go through a pointless year, maybe make the playoffs, then lose your second superstar in a 12-month period for absolutely nothing.


And you think #1 is the "incredibly dumb" option?

#1 gives you mediocre talent that will most likely never even attain All-Star level. #2 isnt written in stone (him leaving). Id rather risk losing Westbrook than trading him for anything less than very very good value

Bro, everyone and their mama knows the guy isn't staying in OKC after this season. Wake up will ya?

[RR9]

1) Get some decent young talent and picks

or

2) Go through a pointless year, maybe make the playoffs, then lose your second superstar in a 12-month period for absolutely nothing.


And you think #1 is the "incredibly dumb" option?

#1 gives you mediocre talent that will most likely never even attain All-Star level. #2 isnt written in stone (him leaving). Id rather risk losing Westbrook than trading him for anything less than very very good value

Bro, everyone and their mama knows the guy isn't staying in OKC after this season. Wake up will ya?

Everyone also thought KD was doing 1+1 in OKC no matter what. Anything is possible, bro.

[mademan]

1) Get some decent young talent and picks

or

2) Go through a pointless year, maybe make the playoffs, then lose your second superstar in a 12-month period for absolutely nothing.


And you think #1 is the "incredibly dumb" option?

#1 gives you mediocre talent that will most likely never even attain All-Star level. #2 isnt written in stone (him leaving). Id rather risk losing Westbrook than trading him for anything less than very very good value

Bro, everyone and their mama knows the guy isn't staying in OKC after this season. Wake up will ya?

If he was absolutely not staying, he'd tell OKC so they'd trade him with his bird rights. He's most likely not staying, but there's still a chance that the extra money (which is a significant sum) will interest him. Regardless, even if it's 80% likely he's not staying and 20% likely he is, you still dont trade him for BKN 2018 pick and Jaylen Brown. I'll take a 1 in 5 shot at a superstar rather than the very likely non-all-stars that those 2 are.

EDIT: Everyone also knew Kevin Love and Demar Derozan were going to LA too, right? And that KD would stay in OKC on the 1+1