Celtics Nice Dads, Let Sons Win! Loss vs PHI 11/8

[GoCeltics123]

It's kinda the case throughout the league, shooting determines so much these days.

HOWEVER...the first two games this team got outshoot from 3 and still won. I was very encouraged at that point.

These past few games give me major pause

We also got outshot in the nets game fwiw but I don’t know why these last 2 give you major pause. We still had a chance to win both because of other reasons. I know you well enough to know you don’t expect to win every game.

The thing that gives me pause it’s that in both games the gameplan for Tatum has worked. We need him to be Top 5 and breakdown any type of coverage. Until that keeps happening we won’t be winning a ring.

It's not even that that gives me pause.

It's that we've faced two elite defenses and couldn't score on either, in large part due to bad offensive process. I agree that they missed a lot of open threes last night, but the process was not great a lot of times vs. Minny and Philly.

Like look at last night. They finally get KP involved in the offense late down 15 and it instantly turns the game around (at a point where it was almost too late). Whether it's Tatum, Brown, Jrue or Derrick, KP has to be involved more in the offense (especially in crunch time) or this team is toast.

And defensively, I just don't love the soft switching late in games that we've seen. Teams just get KP or Al on an island. Like just play drop FFS. The communication on defense will definitely get better, but it's hard to watch them miss assignments and leave guys wide open constantly

[zoyathedestroya]

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Ref was staring right at Embiid’s foot too and decided we should just all go home.

[Hal14]

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[GoCeltics123]

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They lost the game in the 2nd quarter last night but the Minnesota game was the one where they had bad crunch time offense

[Hal14]

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They lost the game in the 2nd quarter last night but the Minnesota game was the one where they had bad crunch time offense

So out of 4 games this season where there was crunch time, our crunch time offense was only bad in 1 of them.

Sounds pretty good, especially since it's only November and we're still going through an adjustment period with 2 new starters and 4 rotation players gone from last year's team.

Oh and the one game we had bad crunch time offense, we were missing 1 of our best players..and were facing the no. 1 ranked defense in the league.

[Ben-N1ce]

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At 0:05, looks like PP was asking for the ball. Knew this was a turnover all the way through. One of those "what the hell is he thinking" plays. Had two more opportunities to pass it off. Frustrating player.

We all say embarrassing far too much for the supposedly 2nd best player..he's 100% not basted on his impact to winning.

[fallguy]

JT-KP PNR needs more consistent emphasis all game.

The data suggests otherwise.

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According to this, Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team, but has been less effective than anyone else at converting those reps into points.

We should certainly keep running PnR actions with KP as the screener. But if you make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum PnR, well, that seems to be pretty misguided.

Small sample size theater. Anyone paying attention would realize that.

[fallguy]

Efficiency matters of course, but sometimes people lose sight of how important it is to force the defense to react. The PPP for something may be the difference of one extra made shot per game. But running that action consistently will lead to wide open looks for other guys, which has a hell of a lot more value than one extra make as opposed to a miss for Tatum running the PnR.

Yeah it's easy to isolate purely on PPP (although stupid to do it after six games as that tells you next to nothing) but anyone who has watched these games should realize how lethal it is to have KP in the PNR actions with Tatum. It's the unlock for the whole offense.

[TheMartian]

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At 0:05, looks like PP was asking for the ball. Knew this was a turnover all the way through. One of those "what the hell is he thinking" plays. Had two more opportunities to pass it off. Frustrating player.

Yep. I remember thinking if JB didn't give the ball up, he'd lose it. I knew he'd lose it the moment he made that spin move

[Hal14]

JT-KP PNR needs more consistent emphasis all game.

The data suggests otherwise.

Read on Twitter

According to this, Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team, but has been less effective than anyone else at converting those reps into points.

We should certainly keep running PnR actions with KP as the screener. But if you make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum PnR, well, that seems to be pretty misguided.

Small sample size theater. Anyone paying attention would realize that.

Small sample size theater - only if it's data that goes against your agenda - am I right? lol

Small sample size but it's at least something.

There's no data to support the point that you made. You make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum/KP PnR, but the data (small sample size or not) does not support that point. Plus, the data tells us that Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team.

[bisme37]

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At 0:05, looks like PP was asking for the ball. Knew this was a turnover all the way through. One of those "what the hell is he thinking" plays. Had two more opportunities to pass it off. Frustrating player.

Yep. I remember thinking if JB didn't give the ball up, he'd lose it. I knew he'd lose it the moment he made that spin move

Maybe I partially imagined it but I swear both the Wolves and Sixers crowds murmured with anticipation every time JB started dribbling the ball. Everyone knows he shouldn't be handling the ball in traffic except him.

[TheMartian]

Tatum had just 6 drives last night. He averaged 11 drives per game in the regular season and nearly 17 drives per game in the playoffs vs. the Sixers last season. That was a noticeable change. And not a positive one. Nurse did something different with their D?

If this was Nurse's game plan against the Celtics and Joe doesn't find a counter, we'll see more of the same against the Sixers next week.

[BK_2020]

Tatum had just 6 drives last night. He averaged 11 drives per game in the regular season and nearly 17 drives per game in the playoffs vs. the Sixers last season. That was a noticeable change. And not a positive one. Nurse did something different with their D?

If this was Nurse's game plan against the Celtics and Joe doesn't find a counter, we'll see more of the same against the Sixers next week.

The counter is to make open shots.

[fallguy]

The data suggests otherwise.

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According to this, Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team, but has been less effective than anyone else at converting those reps into points.

We should certainly keep running PnR actions with KP as the screener. But if you make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum PnR, well, that seems to be pretty misguided.

Small sample size theater. Anyone paying attention would realize that.

Small sample size but it's at least something.

There's no data to support the point that you made.

Yes, you're right. the JT-KP PNR is inefficient and shouldn't be prioritized based on PPP stats for 6 whole games despite the fact that it's one of the biggest reasons the C's traded for KP in the first place.

You are truly a basketball genius.

[fallguy]

The data suggests otherwise.

Read on Twitter

According to this, Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team, but has been less effective than anyone else at converting those reps into points.

We should certainly keep running PnR actions with KP as the screener. But if you make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum PnR, well, that seems to be pretty misguided.

Small sample size theater. Anyone paying attention would realize that.

Small sample size but it's at least something.

There's no data to support the point that you made. You make 80 posts bashing the coach in the span of 3 days and all you can come up with for why he's a bad coach is that he needs to run more Tatum/KP PnR, but the data (small sample size or not) does not support that point. Plus, the data tells us that Tatum is getting more PnR reps than anyone on the team.

You're really starting to irritate me. Please feel free to stop reading my posts. God knows I don't read yours.

[BK_2020]

Kornet has successfully contested Tobias Harris's layup attempt and forced him to miss. Who will grab the resulting rebound, the four Celtics players or Paul Reed?

[TheMartian]

Tatum had just 6 drives last night. He averaged 11 drives per game in the regular season and nearly 17 drives per game in the playoffs vs. the Sixers last season. That was a noticeable change. And not a positive one. Nurse did something different with their D?

If this was Nurse's game plan against the Celtics and Joe doesn't find a counter, we'll see more of the same against the Sixers next week.

The counter is to make open shots.

True, but when the shots aren't falling (case in point, yesterday's game), shouldn't there be a backup plan?

[Hal14]

If this was Nurse's game plan against the Celtics and Joe doesn't find a counter, we'll see more of the same against the Sixers next week.

The counter is to make open shots.

True, but when the shots aren't falling (case in point, yesterday's game), shouldn't there be a backup plan?

It's not like all we did was take 3's every time down the floor. Look at all these shots in the paint that we missed.

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And the shots from 3 in this video were wide open or in the flow of the offense - it's simply bad basketball to turn down those types of looks.

[steefP2]

We also got outshot in the nets game fwiw but I don’t know why these last 2 give you major pause. We still had a chance to win both because of other reasons. I know you well enough to know you don’t expect to win every game.

The thing that gives me pause it’s that in both games the gameplan for Tatum has worked. We need him to be Top 5 and breakdown any type of coverage. Until that keeps happening we won’t be winning a ring.

It's not even that that gives me pause.

It's that we've faced two elite defenses and couldn't score on either, in large part due to bad offensive process. I agree that they missed a lot of open threes last night, but the process was not great a lot of times vs. Minny and Philly.

Like look at last night. They finally get KP involved in the offense late down 15 and it instantly turns the game around (at a point where it was almost too late). Whether it's Tatum, Brown, Jrue or Derrick, KP has to be involved more in the offense (especially in crunch time) or this team is toast.

And defensively, I just don't love the soft switching late in games that we've seen. Teams just get KP or Al on an island. Like just play drop FFS. The communication on defense will definitely get better, but it's hard to watch them miss assignments and leave guys wide open constantly

I think the minny game and Philly game shouldn’t be equated in terms of offensive process but yes ot vs Minnesota was very frustrating.

I’ll agree on the soft switching but I’ve been very happy with the defense overall.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Can anyone tell me what the acceptable way to lose is so I remember for next time to check if it fits the box ?

Only if all of our players have their limbs amputated mid-game.