Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[Drax]

We actually could of really used Turner this year...

Ball stoper, bad shot taker, mediocre play maker. Pass thanks.

[SparringPartner]

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

IT / Fultz
Bradley / Smart

Crowder is gone.

Crowder > Smart.

I agree that Crowder > Smart. We are all really enamored with Hayward, right? And we should be, but Crowder has similar production and efficiency as Hayward with a lower usage rate. Oh, and Crowder makes $6M a year for 3 more years . I love me some Smart, but we need to be real here.

So yes, Crowder > Smart

[Captain_Caveman]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

So what sort of trades can you see?

Bradley to Charolette for 11 + MKG

Bradley to Sacto for 5 + 10

Bradley to Dallas for 9 + Noel

Bradley to NYK for 8 and Hermangomez

Bradley to Minni for 7 and Levine or Dunn

Bradley to Philly for either Lakers 18 or Sacto 19 pick

These all seem wildly unrealistic to me but I would love if his value was that high. I view the Ibaka trade as Orlando being stupid not a barometer of market value.

None of those are happening. Not only could nearly all of those teams just try to sign him outright in a year, Bradley could and probably would leave nearly all of them for nothing if they traded for them. To Charlotte for the 11 alone is more plausible, and only because they are not projected to have cap room in 2018.

[Slartibartfast]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

I just do not think that is how value is determined. I mean the Orlando GM was in hot water and just made a HORRIBLE move. He then turned around Ibaka to Toronto and got peanuts (an even WORSE move).

It is like saying 2 former All-Star aging veterans are worth the #17, #3 and #1 draft picks in consecutive years. We all know that is not true. Oh yeah, and maybe another #1 the following year

Avery Bradley is a valuable player no-doubt. IMO I think the C's could nab Minny's #7 this year for Bradley.

This is based on fit (Thibs), the fact that Minny needs to start winning now, and has the money to pay Bradley next year. The last thing Minny needs is the player they will get with that #7 pick.

I think we'd need to throw in another good asset to get Minny to bite on that. #7 is a nice pick in this draft. A lot of borderline star talent there (DSJ, Isaac, Collins). That beats soon-to-be UFA AB value wise.

Not sure how much value Yabs has, but the equivalent of a mid-first to go with AB to fetch #7.

Maybe AB/Yabs/#37 for #7

[ddb]

Crazy 3 team trade idea using the rumor that Portland is looking to dump a salary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6870361

Celtics trade: Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller
Celtics get: #7 pick, Aaron Gordon, Evan Turner ...

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

We actually could of really used Turner this year...

geez. so Evan Turner, Aaron Gordon and Marcus Smart all on the same team? How many non-shooters do we want? This is a MAKE OR MISS league fellas. Common now. I'm not suggesting we roll out Redick-Korver-Frye, but you need guys that can shoot at least a little bit

[Slartibartfast]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

So what sort of trades can you see?

Bradley to Charolette for 11 + MKG

Bradley to Sacto for 5 + 10

Bradley to Dallas for 9 + Noel

Bradley to NYK for 8 and Hermangomez

Bradley to Minni for 7 and Levine or Dunn

Bradley to Philly for either Lakers 18 or Sacto 19 pick

These all seem wildly unrealistic to me but I would love if his value was that high. I view the Ibaka trade as Orlando being stupid not a barometer of market value.

None of those are happening. Not only could nearly all of those teams just try to sign him outright in a year, Bradley could and probably would leave nearly all of them for nothing if they traded for them. To Charlotte for the 11 alone is more plausible, and only because they are not projected to have cap room in 2018.

The Jazz trading #12 for Hill might be a counter-argument (that was before they spent their 2017 cap space on multi-year deals for Joe Johnson and Diaw). Some teams get playoff fever. Minny definitely could be one of them (2nd longest playoff drought in NBA history).

Still think bows' original is wayyyy too optimistic. A lotto pick is a good return for expiring AB. A lotto pick and a very good asset alongside it seem impossible.

[GregB]

So what sort of trades can you see?

Bradley to Charolette for 11 + MKG

Bradley to Sacto for 5 + 10

Bradley to Dallas for 9 + Noel

Bradley to NYK for 8 and Hermangomez

Bradley to Minni for 7 and Levine or Dunn

Bradley to Philly for either Lakers 18 or Sacto 19 pick

These all seem wildly unrealistic to me but I would love if his value was that high. I view the Ibaka trade as Orlando being stupid not a barometer of market value.

None of those are happening. Not only could nearly all of those teams just try to sign him outright in a year, Bradley could and probably would leave nearly all of them for nothing if they traded for them. To Charlotte for the 11 alone is more plausible, and only because they are not projected to have cap room in 2018.

The Jazz trading #12 for Hill might be a counter-argument (that was before they spent their 2017 cap space on multi-year deals for Joe Johnson and Diaw). Some teams get playoff fever. Minny definitely could be one of them (2nd longest playoff drought in NBA history).

Still think bows' original is wayyyy too optimistic. A lotto pick is a good return for expiring AB. A lotto pick and a very good asset alongside it seem impossible.

Agreed if we could get number 7 for Bradley. That would be awesome. I like Jonathan Isaac there. He has the length we need as a backup 3. He can be groomed behind Hayward and continues to add size as we get longer at every position.

[Slartibartfast]

None of those are happening. Not only could nearly all of those teams just try to sign him outright in a year, Bradley could and probably would leave nearly all of them for nothing if they traded for them. To Charlotte for the 11 alone is more plausible, and only because they are not projected to have cap room in 2018.

The Jazz trading #12 for Hill might be a counter-argument (that was before they spent their 2017 cap space on multi-year deals for Joe Johnson and Diaw). Some teams get playoff fever. Minny definitely could be one of them (2nd longest playoff drought in NBA history).

Still think bows' original is wayyyy too optimistic. A lotto pick is a good return for expiring AB. A lotto pick and a very good asset alongside it seem impossible.

Agreed if we could get number 7 for Bradley. That would be awesome. I like Jonathan Isaac there. He has the length we need as a backup 3. He can be groomed behind Hayward and continues to add size as we get longer at every position.

Isaac is a lot better prospect as a 4 than a 3. And you are forgetting Jaylen is a natural 3 as well (badly underskilled as a 2).

[BleedGreen1989]

NO NO NO. Please dear god no. The Evan Turner era is over, it is so over i can't even describe how over it is. I almost had to throw up once i got to that part. His contract and play style are so crap, stop right now, NO dear lord NO.

We actually could of really used Turner this year...

geez. so Evan Turner, Aaron Gordon and Marcus Smart all on the same team? How many non-shooters do we want? This is a MAKE OR MISS league fellas. Common now. I'm not suggesting we roll out Redick-Korver-Frye, but you need guys that can shoot at least a little bit

I wasn't advocating for the trade.

Just saying we could of really used an additional playmaker this season. Turner was good in that role for us.

[BleedGreen1989]

We actually could of really used Turner this year...

Ball stoper, bad shot taker, mediocre play maker. Pass thanks.

Would of been our 2nd best perimeter shot creator this year.

[Banks2Pierce]

Not sure how much value Yabs has, but the equivalent of a mid-first to go with AB to fetch #7.

Maybe AB/Yabs/#37 for #7

This or something like it would be great. I lose a lot of my interest in this draft after 11 so Detroit isn't as intriguing on the surface. Suppose we could maybe get into 12 and then use other stuff to climb that way, but other teams must see that cliff after Collins as well. Not sure how Detroit would view acquiring Bradley when you consider KCP, but I suppose you can afford to get smaller when you have Drummond getting 90% of your rebounds?

[TheMartian]

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless the cap goes up, which it might, one of Bradley, Smart and Crowder likely has to go in order to make room for Hayward if I'm not mistaken (which I may be).

In that case I think trading him for the 12th pick is actually great value. The goal should be to then flip that pick to land some front-court help though. Hayward replaces Bradley and then #12 goes out to improve our weaker areas, I think we can sell Gordon on that.

12th pick has no value. That's why Detroit is trying to get rid of it. Detroit trying to find a team willing to wait 4-5 years in hope that the pick becomes a rotation player. Van Gundy doesn't have 4-5 years that's why he wants immediate help.

Ainge isn't trading Crowder, Smart or Bradley for the 12th pick

I don't know about that. One of DSJ, Isaac, Monk, Ntilikina, Markannen, Collins or Giles could slip to 12. Then there's also guys like Mitchell, Anigbogu, Patton, Jeanne, etc. who can turn out to be better players than Crowder, Bradley or Smart. I think Danny needs to take a long hard look if pick#12 is on the table.

[165bows]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

3+D at the 4/5 is always going to be more valuable/rare then at the 2. And that trade basically got a GM fired.

But I hope you're right.

I think that's what they are looking for. Or alternatively, the Rondo return where there is a promising cost-controlled role guy plus a pick with real potential. That's probably more accurate even in terms of what they want.

Others might value them differently, but he value of all of the pieces in those trades were categorically similar for me, or at least the expected value in Rondo's case.

[greenroom31]

1) Chill out, it really wasn't that bad of an era.
2) Fine, substitute Allen Crabbe's in place of Evan Turner if it makes you happier.

Why would the Celtics want any of those horrible Portland contracts? And at the same time trade two great contracts away. You want to trade AB, Crowder for #7, AG and capspace, ok i get that (wouldn't do it, but get it). But why would we want any of those crap guards while we're discussing who of our beloved guards has to make room for our #1 draft pick?

AB's contract is up in a year and will command a salary similar or higher than Turner and Crabbe's. If you believe that we're going to get Hayward, Crowder becomes an 8th or 9th man, so he's actually not that great a bargain when he's an unhappy solider playing 15-20 minutes per game. A lot of that trade is predicated on the idea that we also draft Fultz and sign Hayward. Then you have:

IT/Fultz/Rozier
Smart/<Portland guard>
Hayward/Jaylen
Gordon/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

Plus whoever else we draft at #6 and can sign in FA. I understand Gordon can't shoot right now but he's still super young and athletic.

[Froob]

Keep an eye on Klay in the coming years...two years left before they need to pony up.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1570823

[amory87]

I'm liking that the hot name right now is Anthony Davis, as unlikely as it seems. That's a potential game changer, and 2 steps up from a deal for Butler or PG13.

It seemed impossible that New Orleans would give him up, but if we offered the BKN #1 pick this year and next year, plus Crowder, Zeller, and Rozier who says no? (New Orleans, probably, lol) Then you sign Hayward, and baby you've got a stew going.

Suddenly we have a starting 5 of IT, Hayward, Bradley, Horford, Davis with Brown, Zizic, Yabusele, and Smart off the bench. That's a pretty beastly team.

[Drax]

... A lot of that trade is predicated on the idea that we also draft Fultz and sign Hayward. Then you have:

IT/Fultz/Rozier
Smart/<Portland guard>
Hayward/Jaylen
Gordon/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

Plus whoever else we draft at #6 and can sign in FA. I understand Gordon can't shoot right now but he's still super young and athletic.

You know that with your trade you have cut heavily into our capspace?

Bradley + Crowder = $15.6 million of our payroll
Zeller's nong. contract is off the books if you look want to make room for a max capslot

Gordon ($5.5) + Turner ($17.1) + #6 caphold ($4.1) = $26.8 million

So with you trade you have taken away roughly $11 million of our capspace. Who would you now trade away to make room for the max free agent slot? Or do you think Hayward would take a $10 to 12 million paycut? And we would have two lesser players on our roster.

Edit: Even if we renounce everyone besides IT, Fultz, AB, Smart, Rozier, Brown, Crowder and Horford and don't sign Yabu/Zizic we don't have enough capspace to outright sign a max free agent. You realize we have to trade someone of our roster to get enough capspace for a max player.

Spoiler math:

Spoiler:

Horford: 27,734,405
Bradley: 8,808,989
#1 pick: 7,026,240
Crowder: 6,796,117
Thomas: 6,261,395
Brown: 4,956,480
Smart: 4,538,020
Yabusele cap hold: 2,247,480
Rozier: 1,988,520
Zizic cap hold: 1,645,200
cap hold: 815,615
cap hold: 815,615
= 73,634,076
projected salary cap = 101,000,000
max capspace = 27,365,924
max player (7-9 years) = 30,100,000

if we don't bring Yabu and Zizic over/sign them we can get an additional 2,261,450 in capspace, meaning our max capspace grows to 29,624,774. we still have to trade someone to go to the 30,100,000 mark.

and we have renounce everyone else, can't go over the cap for Olynyk (declined his qualifying option making him an UFA).

[Gomes3PC]

I think the most likely trade you see with Bradley is something along the lines of what Indy/ATL/Utah did with Teague/Hill/1st round pick. I could see the Bulls being interested in some sort of deal where we get their 1st back, as an example. Frankly with all those ball-dominant guards they need a spot-up shooter like him, and GarPax is delusional enough to think they are really contending right now.

[Froob]

I think the most likely trade you see with Bradley is something along the lines of what Indy/ATL/Utah did with Teague/Hill/1st round pick. I could see the Bulls being interested in some sort of deal where we get their 1st back, as an example. Frankly with all those ball-dominant guards they need a spot-up shooter like him, and GarPax is delusional enough to think they are really contending right now.

AB + Fultz for Rondo?

[Gomes3PC]

I think the most likely trade you see with Bradley is something along the lines of what Indy/ATL/Utah did with Teague/Hill/1st round pick. I could see the Bulls being interested in some sort of deal where we get their 1st back, as an example. Frankly with all those ball-dominant guards they need a spot-up shooter like him, and GarPax is delusional enough to think they are really contending right now.

AB + Fultz for Rondo?

I dunno, if we get Playoff Rondo back that might not be enough for GarPax...