Grant Williams Thread

[brackdan70]

I’m on board with locking him up for 4 years at 10-12/ year. I’d be hesitant to go more than that.

Fine to let him go to RFA as well but I think I like keeping him long term. He’s 23 and has shown he’s a solid rotation guy.

[Parliament10]

I know he sucked last two rounds, but he’s too valuable vs Milwaukee to trade or let walk after next year.

Do you guys want to keep him and if so what’s the contract? I’d love to do a weight incentive 5 year deal around 12M a year.

Can we do a 5 yr? -- If so, I like it up $13M/yr. -- We Definitely can put Weight and/or Body fat Incentives in there.
I say start at around $10-11/yr Base, w/Incentives up to $13-14/yr, avg.

If memory serves me correctly, then we have incentives for at least Smart, Brown and Rob Williams.
And Al came in with one, of sorts.

[BK_2020]

I know he sucked last two rounds, but he’s too valuable vs Milwaukee to trade or let walk after next year.

Do you guys want to keep him and if so what’s the contract? I’d love to do a weight incentive 5 year deal around 12M a year.

Can we do a 5 yr? -- If so, I like it up $13M/yr. -- We Definitely can put Weight and/or Body fat Incentives in there.
I say start at around $10-11/yr Base, w/Incentives up to $13-14/yr, avg.

5 year rookie scale extensions are available but you have to offer a 25% max in the first year. Also, we'll have to trade away Tatum since a team can have only one player with the 5 year rookie scale extensions (this was why we could not trade for AD while we had Kyrie).

[philing00]

4/52 with last year team option

[Spotter]

Definitely sign him to an extension. With Al in his last year and will be 36 next season it seems Grant is poised to continue to be a big part of the rotation. A deal similar to RW.

[Gomes3PC]

Yes, you extend him. He needs to expand his game but he is critical to getting past Giannis and over time he and Rob are our long term frontcourt. Much love to Al but his expiration date comes due soon.

[hugepatsfan]

I think Larry Nance Jr's 4 year, $44M contract is a good starting point. Maybe add $1-2M a year for inflation. So that brings you up to 4 years, $52M at he high end. Interestingly, Nance's contract was front loaded which is more player friendly (money today is worth more than money tomorrow). I think that'd be a good idea for us too though. We figure to hit repeater rates down the line if Tatum/Brown stay, so there's good sense in paying a higher salary now at regular rates so you pay less repeater rate tax later.

There was an article earlier this year about how Brad gave out a bunch of extensions last year in part because he thinks it settles guys down and lets them focus on just playing winning basketball. No cluttering your mind with thoughts of what numbers will get you paid. You can just play. That would apply to Grant in this scenario.

There's also good sense in doing an extension now because then you can trade him at his full salary next offseason. Add that to Theis' then-expiring deal and now you have a good salary base to trade for a third star, should the opportunity present itself. If you let him go to restricted free agency then between sign and trade and base year compensation rules that option isn't on the table for you. Not saying to extend him with the specific intention of trading him, just saying that if you do extend him now you put more options on the table for yourself down the line.

I think it's just all around better to extend him now, so long as he'll sign for something reasonable. Even if you pay an extra couple million a year than you'd like, I think it still overall benefits the team to get it done early.

[GoCeltics123]

As long as he doesn't demand a crazy amount, I don't see why not

[ParticleMan]

I like Grant but in the end we need a 3rd big who is starter quality, especially with Al's age and Rob's health. Investing >$10m per in a guy who will never be more than a good backup on a championship team is a tough sell to me.

I have no problem extending his contract, but we have to keep it manageable and front-loading is a good idea since that makes him easier to trade. I view Grant as more of a chip than a piece of the puzzle, tbh.

[cl2117]

I'd give him 4/48 if he was willing to sign now. Same as Timelord's extension. I think he's got less upside but is obviously more consistent/available. Ideally front load it so it dovetails nicely with Rob's with them being roughly 24m cap hit each year.

Assuming we can re-max Jaylen, that'd give us that core 5 guys for 4 more years. And I can genuinely see this being our starting 5:

Smart
Brown
Tatum
Grant
Timelord

Really good balance, obvious defensive identity. Would rely on Tatum/Brown becoming more consistent as true offensive powerhouses, but I think that could be a championship starting 5 if healthy and supported by a quality bench, which we should have money left over to have.

Grant might not have the best ceiling but he's a perfect fit for the modern NBA as a 3&D guy. He's the big bodied stretch big Danny had been hoping to get with Sully/Yabu.

If he isn't happy to lock in something in that range in I wouldn't be afraid to take him to RFA though. Because of his lack of upside I wouldn't expect him to get anything in the late-teens/early 20's even after another great season. Might end up costing you 3-4m if he excels and gets mid-teens money, but don't think you'd lose him (unless you wanted to).

[hugepatsfan]

I like Grant but in the end we need a 3rd big who is starter quality, especially with Al's age and Rob's health. Investing >$10m per in a guy who will never be more than a good backup on a championship team is a tough sell to me.

I have no problem extending his contract, but we have to keep it manageable and front-loading is a good idea since that makes him easier to trade. I view Grant as more of a chip than a piece of the puzzle, tbh.

The only free agent spending power we're going to have for the foreseeable future is the tax payers MLE. A starting caliber big man like you're describing is going to cost more than the MLE. So we'd have to hope for a homerun draft pick like we got with Rob or we'd have to trade for that player. And if you do go to trade for that player, a guy like Grant Williams on a full MLE or a little bit above that kind of kind of contract is the type of salary matching piece that helps get deals like that done.

[3pt %]

PJ Tucker is on 14 m, Portis on 8ish.

Something between those 2 seems about right.

[LewisnotMiller]

I’m on board with locking him up for 4 years at 10-12/ year. I’d be hesitant to go more than that.

Fine to let him go to RFA as well but I think I like keeping him long term. He’s 23 and has shown he’s a solid rotation guy.

Right there with you on this. 4/48.

[Fencer reregistered]

I think a year from now Grant will be able to get at least a favorably structured (e.g. player option) full MLE deal with a blah team. Negotiations should start from that premise.

A full MLEish deal not so favorably structured would seem to be a good year-earlier deal for him.

[GregB]

I think him sucking in finals will help. Easier to find common ground. Both sides really seem to value each other. I hope Grant takes it personal and we see improvement in offseason.

[jfs1000d]

Can’t extend him. I would let him Become Restricted FA. March if makes sense.


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[big-shot-ROB]

Yeah 4/52 seems a little bit too much for a player of his caliber, given Rob is making 4/48. 4/40 or 4/44 i'd say seems more fitting.

[cl2117]

The fact that Rob just signed an extension I feel like really helps our case. It's a great reference point. 4/44 is probably the fairest.

4/40 is what I think he should get on the open market, 4/48 is what I think he'll ask for, so split the difference.

[hugepatsfan]

Guys who can defend at the PF spot and shoot 3s are very in demand. At his age, he's a lock for a full MLE deal. That's like 4 years, $44M. You start there and go up. If he has a great year, definitely a real possibility some cap space team who wants to add a few young guys they can grow with vs. blowing it on older vets offers him a little bit above that (like extra $3M/year or so). So the compromise of him signing an extension a year early would be that he forgoes that possibility to lock things in early. So you meet him in the middle and 4 years, $12.5M/year. I'd imagine that would be the general gist of negotiations with him.

Rob's situation was totally different. He really didn't have much on court track record yet. He was like 80% hype this time last year. Shown flashes, but limited playing time and long injury list. The compromise with him was totally different. If he had another injury plagued year without solid, consistent production no one would guarantee 4 years. And for someone always injured he wanted to lock in the security. So he took a huge haircut off of his high end potential to mitigate his risk.

It's an apples to oranges comparison. The risk profile for each player, their ultimate upside, health history... it's all different. Grant has a much, much smaller range if you project out his FA and therefore less risk for him of playing out the year. Rob had huge risk so for him there was a real question of security vs. betting on yourself.

[BK_2020]

So Grant Williams has been a poor defender by the free of charge metrics, starting with on/off where he was just a passable defender in his first two seasons and became a 5th percentile guy last season. He's the 31st PF in overall D-RAPTOR, sandwiched around Kristaps and Kevin Love. On/Off RAPTOR has him tied for 58th wit Bojan and just below Kuzma. D-LEBRON has him just above Kevin Love and Randle. Obviously very low in the rankings.
He's a smart player who gives a lot of effort but I think he is just too physically challenged.