Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

[keevsnick1]

Anunoby is also a much better shooter than JB.

Is he? OG is a 37.5% career three point shooter, Brown is a 36.5% career three point shooter.

Sure, OG made a higher percentage last year but the volume is pretty different. OG took 5.5 3's per 36, Brown took 7.3. Thats a not-insignificant difference in volume which can make a difference for spacing purposes.

Brown was also MUCH better from the mid range especially floater and short mid range.

OG is probably a better pure spot-up shooter, he's hovered around 40% off catch and shoots the last three years. But before THIS season Brown was up around that same level. He really struggled on catch and shoots this year at only 33.4%. If he bounces back more to his career norms his 3 point percentage will improve quite a bit this year.

OG from year 1
37% - 2.7attempts
33% - 3 attempts
39% - 3.3 attempts
40% - 6 attempts
36% - 6.6 attempts
38.7% - 5.5 attempts

Brown from year 1
34% - 1.7 attempts
40% - 4.4 attempts
34% - 3.7 attempts
38% - 5.9 attempts
40% - 7.1 attempts
36% - 7 attempts
33% - 7.3 attempts

OG is consistant wqith his percentages
Brown is all over the place and has regressed the last 2 years

OG is the better shooter. FTA 84% OG and brown with a career best 76.5% this past season.

Again man those are...pretty similar overall numbers on generally higher attempts from Brown. Last year OG was better on fewer attempts, but the prior FIVE SEASONS they were basically equal in percentage (within 1% either way each year) on more attempts from Brown in each year. I'd say that's fairly strong evidence that Brown is actually the better shooter from three, and he's clearly better from mid range.

Both guys are probably what they are as shooters by now, but three point percentage can fluctuate year by year largely due to luck/variance. Unless you think Brown is going to shoot a career worse ever year from three going forward I'd rather have Brown as a shooter going forward. His catch and shoot percentage SHOULD bounce back from his career low last year and help his numbers.

[robdog_5]

Prove these guys have him top 20.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nbas-top-50-players-in-2022-23-season-giannis-jokic-luka-battle-for-no-1-lebron-slips-out-of-top-10/amp/

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/

Here are two, feel free to keep googling

Vincent Frank and Brad Botkin'/Jack Maloney's opinions?

Wow, those are some high value analysts there. lol

Hes top 25 regardless of how you cut it. My biggest takeaway is this. He has too many overlapping skills with Tatum and he's deficient in too many skills to an elite sidekick. He maybe better as a 1 than a 2. Now I think he's a 1 of a play in type team but he's still probably a 1. He isn't a good team defender, really lacks IQ is a solid on ball defender when he wants to and doesn't go for every pump fake (which is rare). With Porzingas and Brogdon you have some secondary guys who can put the ball in the basket with high usage. You don't need another true #1. Give me a guy who is a better #2 or 3 and some assets IMO

[ryan in Maine]

I'd swear this is the football section of RealGM with the constant moving of the goalposts from the anti-JB contingent.

[Hal14]

So Brad says we're looking at a wing or a 4/3 type of guy.

Perhaps that means he's looking at signing Kelly Oubre for the minimum. With a fall back option of Glenn Robinson III (if Oubre decides to sign with a different team that can offer him more money and/or more minutes)

Read on Twitter

Or perhaps we trade for Bey with the Grant TPE. Or we sign Hamidou Diallo, Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr, Austin Rivers, Justice Winslow or Terence Davis..

[darrendaye]

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
3 minutes ago

New: Brad Stevens specified just exactly what he's looking to still add to the Celtics roster after a busy offseason so far: "We have to make sure we finish out our roster right."

https://t.co/DV7wkQ1W3Z

“I think we’ll try to add obviously a little bit,” Stevens said. “I’d like to get a little more depth, maybe on the wing, and then also maybe with a 4/3 type. I feel pretty good about our bigs. We’ve got a couple two ways, so we’ve got some things we’re still very much looking at.”

Brisset and Tatum can play the 4. If they get another 3/4 that guy can play the 4. If that's the case you have 4 centers. How many do you need?

Depends on what you're looking for. I would have liked to continue that Timelord-esque element if/when he misses time, which consists of close-outs, shot blocking, and rebounding. a 4/3 likely isn't getting there. They had 4 bigs last year and Joe went small. A recommitment to a double big identity, 5 is not an absurd request especially when I'm looking for a 4 who can play smallball 5. This was also lost in Grant's departure.

[sam_I_am]

How many teams have 2 guys making $40 mil or more? GS has Curry and Klay plus 3 more guys making >$30 mil. Clippers have 2. Minnesota has 3 now. Denver has Jokic and Porter and Murray has 2 more years at 36 million. Lakers has 2 $45 mil guys.

Every team wants 2 stars and will pay max salary for them.

The idea that Brown isn’t ‘worth’ it is nonsensical. Even if as a ‘pretend GM’ you want him on the first bus out of town you have to accept that he is an asset with a high value. 30 teams will pay a guy like Brown max money to be their second best player. Orlando doesn’t even have 1 - they would do cartwheels if they could bring in a Brown next to their young studs. So you can debate all-NBA level vs 45th best in the league all day - he’s still worth the contract to keep a valuable asset. I disagree with the idea that we have to take 2 nickels for a quarter now before getting ‘stuck’ with his contract. His contract will be easy to move - he’ll only be 32 at the end of it - and the return will be much greater if he is locked up.

What value does OG have if he doesn’t pan out here? He has very little now.

[Triple7]

I agree.

Brown is a superior offensive player.


But the debate is, can OG be a more significant player if given as much opportunity as Brown.

Right now OG is 100% superior defensively, and IMO the gap is pretty substantial. Could OG be a more productive offensive player as a 2nd option though.

OG has never SNIFFED at Jaylens usage. OGs highest season was 20.5 and Browns LOWEST was 18.1
Last season OG had a usage of 19.5 compared to Browns 31.5.

Per 100 Jaylen scores 36ppg on 28shots or 1.28 points per shot
Per 100 OG Scorers 23 on 18shots or 1.27 points per shot

an arguement can be made that with more attempts and opportunity OGs efficiency goes down, but it looks like his efficiency is on par with Jaylens. OG is a superior shooter, so perhaps that efficiency stays with increased opportunity.


Also Browns Turnover per 100 is 4
OGs is 2.7

I like OG a lot personally. I think he is a better FIT for the team right now with Tatum and KP on it. Would be lethal defensively too.

I also like OG at 20-30 million more than Jaylen at 50-60 million

White
OG
Tatum
Porzingas
Timelord

I agree. 60M to brown is just too much. Maybe during last years regular season, i would laugh at this, but seeing Jaylen can’t step up when needed in the playoffs, doesn’t justify paying him the smax, despite getting 2nd team all nba. I tell you, that’s the last time he’ll get an award as a celtic. He got exposed hard against the heat. Getting outplayed by Caleb Martin lol.

Jaylen for 60 million is the price to keep an important franchise asset. Worst case scenario by signing him is that we end up with a Tobias Harris-like overpaid but very useful player. Trading him now means accepting a diminished return regardless of what you think of him. He has no value to Toronto or Portland who wouldn’t be able to extend him or resign him. Next year, Toronto might pony up a lot to get a top 30 player locked up for 5 years.

Why would toronto do that? Even if they have the money, why would they pay Jaylen that amount? He won’t make them a contender. He’s not a franchise type of player. Also, what’s stopping him from taking the Dame route? Try to force his way to a certain team. Even if toronto is willing, Jaylen won’t want to play there.

[Curmudgeon]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

[robdog_5]

I'd swear this is the football section of RealGM with the constant moving of the goalposts from the anti-JB contingent.

I'm late to this conversation. Where are the goalposts supposed to be? I'm not sure where they moved from, but to me is he worth a max? Is this the best way to maximize the roster? That to me is the questions.

[Hal14]

How many teams have 2 guys making $40 mil or more? GS has Curry and Klay plus 3 more guys making >$30 mil. Clippers have 2. Minnesota has 3 now. Denver has Jokic and Porter and Murray has 2 more years at 36 million. Lakers has 2 $45 mil guys.

Every team wants 2 stars and will pay max salary for them.

The idea that Brown isn’t ‘worth’ it is nonsensical. Even if as a ‘pretend GM’ you want him on the first bus out of town you have to accept that he is an asset with a high value. 30 teams will pay a guy like Brown max money to be their second best player. Orlando doesn’t even have 1 - they would do cartwheels if they could bring in a Brown next to their young studs. So you can debate all-NBA level vs 45th best in the league all day - he’s still worth the contract to keep a valuable asset. I disagree with the idea that we have to take 2 nickels for a quarter now before getting ‘stuck’ with his contract. His contract will be easy to move - he’ll only be 32 at the end of it - and the return will be much greater if he is locked up.

What value does OG have if he doesn’t pan out here? He has very little now.

Orlando will have Paolo and Franz on max contracts eventually.

Toronto makes a fair amount of sense for JB, IMO - especially if they end up dealing Siakam. That leaves them with 2 guys to build around who will need max contracts (JB, Barnes). And those 2 guys complement each other fairly well, with JB being a much better scorer and Barnes being a much better passer, JB is a 2/3, while Barnes is a 3/4..

[Triple7]

Why are you surprised? Just curious. 75% of this board has wanted Brown/Brogdon gone since Smart got traded. You even had a thread posted on this board asking people who would they rather keep, Brown or Marcus Smart and Smart got quite a few votes. There's three types of fans that want to trade Brown on this board.

Fans that are obsessed about Wyc's bank account and check book
Marcus Smart Stans that for some reason blame Brown for him being gone even though Marcus said they had no beef and thus will give Brown away for spare parts just because...
People who think that Brown will demand a trade.

I'm more of the third option where he's probably going to demand a trade. But say they max him out and he has a career year and then asks out next year. Wouldn't you get a package better than what you would this offseason? He'd have term on his contract and would be All NBA again and would still be young. This is why trading him now for 70 cents on the dollar doesn't make any sense.

He won’t have a career year next year. Not with Tatum and Porzingis on board. I think he’s peaked already. He won’t get better stats next year if he stays a celtic. Nobody would want that 295M. We would end up getting half of his value, or end up getting an awful one as well. He’s not a number 1 player. He won’t suddenly learn how to dribble left, and learn to pass the ball.

So he won't be able to outplay Porzingis? The same guy that people on this board are saying can't outplay Marcus Smart? You're taking a lot in from one series and using it because you don't want to pay the player.

Realistically who replaces Brown if you don't want him? OG is not on his level, neither is Siakam, Hunter or any of the other guys being thrown around. Trae is offense only.

I honestly hope that Brown stays and balls out so the posters that treated this guy like a G League talent can look back at some pretty awful takes. You have posters on here that say anything from I'd trade him before Marcus to I'll trade him for anything.

Of course he might outplay Porzingis. He’s still clearly our number 2 guy, but his numbers will clearly be affected by the addition of porzingis. He won’t get the same touches. It won’t be a two man show, your turn my turn like last season. So no, he won’t have a better season stat wise. Plus it ain’t really about that one series, but that series clearly showed he can’t be relied on to step up when needed. So yeah, i don’t want him getting paid with that amount of money. He’s not even close to be deserving. Rather get two good players for him that would fit well with JT, because that contract would be the worse in the league.

[Triple7]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

Exactly!

[Celts17Pride]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true. Celtics haven't sacrificed quality depth. They traded Smart, Muscala and Gallo for Porzingis which is a talent upgrade. Grant Williams wasn't resigned and you can argue that point but this is the same Grant Williams who was in the doghouse and couldn't get off the bench last year. Celtics decided Grant Williams was worth $13-14 million per year.

Celtics currently have not sacrificed anything concerning depth but just keep on saying it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

I’d give him the full max with team and individual incentives towards a super - like, we win a championship, he makes first team all NBA, second team, third.. I’m ok with supermax money if he delivers supermax performance

[ajones9219]

I'd swear this is the football section of RealGM with the constant moving of the goalposts from the anti-JB contingent.

I'm late to this conversation. Where are the goalposts supposed to be? I'm not sure where they moved from, but to me is he worth a max? Is this the best way to maximize the roster? That to me is the questions.

The the NBA, every team is working/hoping to get top end star talent. Depth doesn't win championships, star talent does. We have observed this for years yet we literally have 3 stars on the roster now, with two being superstars/borderline superstars and we want to ship one out for role players?

We did it. We got the thing every team wants. Stop overcomplicating it

[ryan in Maine]

I'd swear this is the football section of RealGM with the constant moving of the goalposts from the anti-JB contingent.

I'm late to this conversation. Where are the goalposts supposed to be? I'm not sure where they moved from, but to me is he worth a max? Is this the best way to maximize the roster? That to me is the questions.

There's an example just a few posts back re JB's overall league ranking.

[Triple7]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

I’d give him the full max with team and individual incentives towards a super - like, we win a championship, he makes first team all NBA, second team, third.. I’m ok with supermax money if he delivers supermax performance

Only superstars should get the supermax, unless its a number two that clearly fits well with your number 1. Say like jamal murray. He fits well like a glove with Jokic, so you pay that guy. JAylen doesn’t fit well with JT. If you pay Jaylen the smax, then we are stuck with him. The Jays should start learning to play off each other, and not just take turns in offense.

[Celts17Pride]

I'd swear this is the football section of RealGM with the constant moving of the goalposts from the anti-JB contingent.

I'm late to this conversation. Where are the goalposts supposed to be? I'm not sure where they moved from, but to me is he worth a max? Is this the best way to maximize the roster? That to me is the questions.

The the NBA, every team is working/hoping to get top end star talent. Depth doesn't win championships, star talent does. We have observed this for years yet we literally have 3 stars on the roster now, with two being superstars/borderline superstars and we want to ship one out for role players?

We did it. We got the thing every team wants. Stop overcomplicating it

Don't forget Brad Stevens penny pinching ways because he has somehow make up for giving Jaylen Brown his contract. Brad Stevens is now forced to do penny pinching moves like trading for $37 million Porzingis and immediately signing him to an extension worth another $60 million. Damn Jaylen Brown!

Don't know how I'm going to adjust to these new Celtics penny pinching ways.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The question is whether or not Jaylen Brown is good enough at basketball so that you are willing to sacrifice your quality depth to fit him into your cap as a max player. In my view he is not.

I’d give him the full max with team and individual incentives towards a super - like, we win a championship, he makes first team all NBA, second team, third.. I’m ok with supermax money if he delivers supermax performance

Only superstars should get the supermax, unless its a number two that clearly fits well with your number 1. Say like jamal murray. He fits well like a glove with Jokic, so you pay that guy. JAylen doesn’t fit well with JT. If you pay Jaylen the smax, then we are stuck with him. The Jays should start learning to play off each other, and not just take turns in offense.

Supposedly Jaylen thinks he and Tatum are equals. Scottie Pippen complex. Except Pippen was underpaid and underrated and Jaylen has been appropriately paid and slightly overrated.

[ajones9219]

I’d give him the full max with team and individual incentives towards a super - like, we win a championship, he makes first team all NBA, second team, third.. I’m ok with supermax money if he delivers supermax performance

Only superstars should get the supermax, unless its a number two that clearly fits well with your number 1. Say like jamal murray. He fits well like a glove with Jokic, so you pay that guy. JAylen doesn’t fit well with JT. If you pay Jaylen the smax, then we are stuck with him. The Jays should start learning to play off each other, and not just take turns in offense.

Supposedly Jaylen thinks he and Tatum are equals. Scottie Pippen complex. Except Pippen was underpaid and underrated and Jaylen has been appropriately paid and slightly overrated.

He should believe that. While Tatum is better, Jaylen has played like our best player for large chunks of their careers, including our finals run