Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas

[Andrew McCeltic]

Teams I see as most obvious Asik fits:

Atlanta
Charlotte
Toronto
Dallas
New Orleans
Sacramento

Hawks move Horford to 4.. Could deal Lou Will or Milsapp

Charlotte moves Al to 4, gets someone to cover for his defense- likewise Kings with DMC

TOR just sucks and needs help, Dallas takes everyone

And because Anthony Davis makes jumpers now, Ryan Anderson is less necessary, and AD/Asik defensively would be insane.




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[soxfan2003]

I would take that to mean that everyone besides Olynyk and Sullinger are being discussed in lower level trade talks which makes sense when you look at our roster.

In my understanding at least I take lower level "trade talk" to be data-sourcing where it's not about finding trades as much as polling the league to gauge your own players' perceived value, something that might lead to upper level trade talk down the road but also and more importantly something that creates data to determine market value for free agents, both your own and ones you might like to acquire. Just part of the job of a front office, not necessarily an indication that only 2 of 14 current players will still be on the team in 18 months.

That's why I was trying to get DDB to speak on his source's reliability and whether he thinks this is just DA doing his job or DA seriously pushing for a major makeover in a short period of time.

As an aside, I don't know how you can get full value for Rondo until at least next summer, assuming full recovery and no other injuries. As such, I'd be surprised to hear his names in lower level "trade talks". Similarly, rookies like Olynyk or guys like Sully who's fat right now are also players whose value won't be established until later, thus making them unlikely candidates right now for "trade talk" data-sourcing. Maybe everyone is being included in lower level trade talk except Sully, Olynyk, and Rondo and DDB's source just assumes like a lot of people around the league that Rondo's going to be moved instead of signed to an extension?

I think of this whole situation as some nba insider just knowing the Celtics roster, how things work in the NBA and the value placed on youth, the Celtics rebuilding situation and simply speculating most of these players will be gone in a few years and the likeliest to stay are the 2 young cheap assets. Nothing more then that. Ainge/Boston may be willing to entertain some trade discussion for everyone but right now, they may be saying about Sullinger/Olynyk, we would first like to further evaluate what we got. Sullinger has only played a half of a season and Olynyk less then 10 games.

I really think your first paragraph is a good description of what probably goes on and what Ainge/Celtics have been accused of in the past.

As for Rondo or virtually any veteran player in his situation that is approaching FA and getting closer to 30, the time you can probably get the highest value for him is right after he hopefully returns at close to 100%. If he looks great before the trading deadline, his value probably peaks then but if he looks bad the first couple of months but then has a strong finish to the season at that moment is probably his highest value..

Assuming a very good return on Feb 1st and consistent play the rest of the season.... At the time of the draft I think his value would have dropped by another 10-15% simply because the team trading for him can't use him in the 2014 playoffs or to try to make the playoffs.

He is basically an asset that is a half of a season older and only 1 year from free agency. At that point teams trying to trade for Rondo really have to be even more worried about signing him to what they perceive as a reasonable extension.

And some of those teams with massive cap room in the future may be more interested in overpaying Rondo as a free agent then let's say giving up a nice draft pick.

There are some advantages of holding off on a Rondo trade until the 2014 draft since you are more likely to know what you will get and you will have had a half season to evaluate the current Celtics with Rondo on the team.

[ryaningf]

I don't think Ainge feels he has to move Rondo but that doesn't mean another team doesn't need Rondo more than Danny Ainge can say no to

Agreed. If Danny has taught us anything, it's that anyone is available for the right price. I can accept that and I think it's the right way to approach the job. But as always it comes down to whether the PRICE IS RIGHT.

What I was saying above was that unless another Net-type situation arises, I just don't see how Rondo can reestablish his true value THIS SEASON, and thus find it hard to believe the price will be right. Next summer, on the other hand, will be the litmus test where either they extend him or trade him, huge part of which depends on Rondo and how he fits into Stevens' system and team ethic and we just don't know how that or how his return from injury will unfold yet. Teams don't usually blow you away with an offer until AFTER a guy proves he's healthy, and that won't happen til next summer.

I do have some assumptions in this as well, things I think I know about how Ainge operates. First assumption is that Ainge favors a quick rebuild over a total rebuild. Starting from that assumption, a Rondo trade only makes sense if we get back the best player in the deal and not some combo of picks and salary relief. But as you say, maybe some offer comes in that changes this thinking. With these many variables, who really knows? I do agree that Ainge has left himself some wiggle room to pursue a slash and burn total rebuild, but at the same time I'd argue that he'd only follow it as a path of last resort.

The second assumption I have is that I think Ainge holds out some kind of hope that Rondo can still INCREASE his value around the league if installed into an uptempo offense that plays to his strengths. Ainge has always been a proponent of RUNNING and I think it'd take a really really good offer for Rondo for Ainge to abandon that goal before he can try it out.

Sully and Olynyk, chosen ones? I can go for that, Ainge definitely likes them both a lot and also knows he doesn't have to make a decision on them until after 14-15. On the other hand, everyone else is in play and subject to low level trade discussions because they either they're about to expire or they're deadweight? I guess that makes sense.

Given what we believe to be Ainge's willingness to discuss anyone in trade talks, how do you square that with the oft-repeated claim that the Cs value their own players higher than the rest of the league does? That leads me to believe that like Red before him other teams fear dealing with the Cs because they think Ainge is going to screw them somehow (like why are you even talking about trading your best player, you must know something we don't). It kinda paints his willingness to discuss everyone as some kind of Machiavellian ploy to lure teams into talks they wouldn't otherwise engage in, something that squares with another oft-repeated claim around the league that there are certain teams that will not under any circumstances have trade talks with the Cs.

[ddb]

My guys are legit but as i have mentioned in the past they work and play for different organizations. All I know is that these are educated guesses. These bball operation guys have a pretty darn good idea of which direction and situation each team is in. Picture it this way....they all go to the same school (nba) have the same teachers and live in the same town. I take his comments to the bank. He is basically saying that Ainge is going all in. Not playing around building an 8 seed. He isnt trying to sell tickets or please ownership. And every gm knows this. He is a freakin shark and he is gonna move anyone on the roster in the right deal.

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[ddb]

The two teams that want Rondo the most are two teams that dont have enough to offer. Pacers and Pistons. Ainge will be patient. Im still holding out hope that Rondo comes back better then ever and signs an extension. But not a max

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[FlatearthZorro]

I'd give the Rockets Bass + filler for Asik.. Bass has been pretty darn decent. AS much as people don't like Asik, he was averaging a double double with over 12 boards a game last season. Great defender too. It'd be interesting If Danny is in this at all, cause I'm not sure if we wanna win games.

[ddb]

What about Faverani/Bass/Brooks for Asik? I say yes to that.

Houston gets a solid PF who can guard 3 positions and then knock down the pick and pop. Faverani is a capable backup Center to Howard and Fav won't complain over short minutes. Brooks is just filler.

Celts get Asik.

But we do realize that Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik with Crawford/Lee/Wallace/KO/Hump is a playoff team, right? That means kiss Wiggins/Parker goodbye. no shot at them.

tough call. Glad I'm not Danny right now.

[jmr07019]

Asik + Bradley = the foundation for a damn good defense. Get it done Danny.

[ddb]

Asik + Bradley = the foundation for a damn good defense. Get it done Danny.

yup. And Rondo/Green/Sully/Wallace/Lee are all capable defenders as well.

Low post scorer in Sully. Defensive Anchor and rim protector in Asik. Perimeter defender in Bradley who's also improving offensively. Rondo is Rondo. Green would need to step up more but it seems to me that Sullinger is going to start getting more looks on O. I think Stevens realizes that Sully can score at ease in the post against most defenders. IDK. That's a solid team but not a title team. Not sure how we go from this core to a title team? Another trade using picks + expirings? Interesting. And we can kiss the Wiggins/Parker/Randle trio good-bye.

[AgentGreen]

Would love to get Asik. But the lineup.. Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger, Asik.. wont be good enough for a ring. You''ll need to sacrifice one of our guards for a guard who can shoot lights out. The one who'll be sacrificed then is Bradley imo.

Asik + Bradley is great defense yeah. But Asik + Bradley will only work if you have a PG like Curry next to AB. With Rondo it will be just to risky. We will have games in which we score 120 and suddenly the next one we'll have a hard time to make 80 points. That lineup will be to inconsistent.

I like Bradley's defense, really alot. But defense isn't the only thing that will win you rings. Rondo is a capable defender and i would be glad with another guard next to him who is a capable defender but can shoot lights out when its needed. Rondo who can slice and dice and a guard who can spread the floor for you. Thats the right combo So i think that we will trade Bradley eventually. His defensive qualities will be a great asset for a trade.

Or you have to be lucky and have 2 guys off the bench who can score 20+ for you each game, but not every team has that luxury.

[ddb]

maybe a Bradley/2014 Nets pick to Utah for Hayward type of deal. Hayward can shoot, score, underrated athlete, defender and passer. He would fit in nicely between Rondo/Green.

Rondo/Hayward/Green/Sully/Asik

Crawford/Lee/Wallace/KO/Hump is a good team

[Pacino62]

maybe a Bradley/2014 Nets pick to Utah for Hayward type of deal. Hayward can shoot, score, underrated athlete, defender and passer. He would fit in nicely between Rondo/Green.

Rondo/Hayward/Green/Sully/Asik

Crawford/Lee/Wallace/KO/Hump is a good team

Wow. LOVE that lineup. It would all depend on Green, Sully and Hayward's ceilings, but that lineup might do it.

[KGboss]

Bradley for Hayward is interesting. Bradley is a beast defensively and inconsistent offensively. Hayward is a beast offensively and short handed defensively.

Basically switching one problem for another.

[LobCityRondo2KG]

i like the AB for Hayward swap.. we would have two big guards at the 2/3 too with JG and Hayward

[klemen4]

No way we can get Harward with Bradley...he looks a lot more complete player, damn he is averaging 20p,5as,6reb thi season and is the best player on Jazz team. They will resign him, also match any potential offer imo.

[jmr07019]

I agree that adding Asik doesn't make us a title team. That said I don't think trading Bradley is the way to become a title team. The reason I want to get Asik is to pair him with Bradley and build a top defense. I'd look to upgrade our offense at the other ways.

Ideally Bradley becomes a more consistent offensive player and begins to shoot 3s from everywhere and not just the corner. That would make the whole process a lot easier.

Upgrading what we have at the 4 wouldn't be hard. We could let Sully and KO develop or trade for one of Aldrige, Monroe or ideally Love. Monroe is the most likely to be moved IMO.

Let's say we trade Bass, Fav and the Nets pick for Asik.
Then hump, (2) 2015 1sts and KO for Monroe.

Rondo / Craw
Bradley / Lee
Green / Wallace
Monroe / Sully
Asik / Sully

If it's not working we try another consolidation trade (starter + Sully + picks for X) down the road.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The two teams that want Rondo the most are two teams that dont have enough to offer. Pacers and Pistons. Ainge will be patient. Im still holding out hope that Rondo comes back better then ever and signs an extension. But not a max

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I forgot about the Pacers' usual interest.. They have Granger's expiring.. Lance Stephenson has a good rep.. I wonder if they would give up Hibbert for Rondo if they got Asik back in the same deal.. They'll have to find a third team if they want RR, although I could see Ainge being tempted by Granger's expiring and 2 to 4 first round picks..


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[ryaningf]

What about Faverani/Bass/Brooks for Asik? I say yes to that.

Houston gets a solid PF who can guard 3 positions and then knock down the pick and pop. Faverani is a capable backup Center to Howard and Fav won't complain over short minutes. Brooks is just filler.

Celts get Asik.

But we do realize that Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik with Crawford/Lee/Wallace/KO/Hump is a playoff team, right? That means kiss Wiggins/Parker goodbye. no shot at them.

tough call. Glad I'm not Danny right now.

Like a "hockey assist" this is the kind of trade that could be the trade that leads to the trade that creates a contender. Incremental improvement, as long as you don't sacrifice future assets, is the name of the game these days.

[rickrolled]

If we got Asik and only gave up Bass and maybe Brooks or Crawford it would be a steal.

[ddb]

Bradley for Hayward is interesting. Bradley is a beast defensively and inconsistent offensively. Hayward is a beast offensively and short handed defensively.

Basically switching one problem for another.

KGboss, I respect your posts and opinions but I have to disagree with you on this one. Hayward is the superior all around player. It's not even close.

Only way Utah would ever consider this is if they're hesitant on paying Hayward 10+ Million per and would prefer Bradley at 6 + the additional pick. And if they landed Parker or Wiggins they too would have quite the young lineup.

Trey Burke/Bradley/Parker/Favors/Kanter with Alec Burke as 6th man. They'd be on to something.

For Boston Hayward gives them exactly what they need. a versatile shooter/scorer who's actually a very underrated defender and athlete. I underrated this guy when he first came up. Now he's showing me something. He's not a Superstar but he's a very, very good player. in a balanced lineup like Boston would have with Rondo/Hayward/Green/Sully/Asik he would compliment the other guys very well. IMO he would also emerge as the "go-to" late game guy. Some of the shots he was making against Boston last week were bonkers. kid can score. cold blooded.