"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[2Mas]

I believe Hart is junior but he is an awesome player. Really good defender that can also drive to the basketball and shoot at a decent level.

I like Hart too. Just needs to get in the gym & work on his shot & handle. 2 of the funnest things to work on too. Just work on those & he'll have a real solid career. There's a lot of good in the kid.

[lon3lytoaster]

[Tweet]https://twitter.com/sn_ncaab/status/719563177718104064[/Tweet]

Kevin O'Connor's first draft ranking posted today. Interesting variations on the theme. Sabonis at 10, Poeltl at 12, Valentine at 6. A few seniors in the back end of the first like Hart, Brogdon and AJ Hammons.

Sabonis or Valentine (or Luwawu) are the only guys I want with that Dallas pick. Frustrating God Barea will carry them to the post season.

Yeah those guys are the appealing ones to me as well. I could be talked into Rabb, and then there is my totally unfounded interest in OG Anunoby.

Not draft time if I haven't picked a guy I barely know anything about to be the next great surprise lol.

Sabonis is going to be the steal of the draft. During workouts I'd be surprised if he isn't in the top ten discussion. Dude's counter moves are impressive, has a nice and improving stroke, is mobile and plays with fire. Anti-Olynyk. Maybe a little thin at this point, but I think Aryvdas was as well when he was 20. That will improve. Domantas is that guy.

hopefully he declares and is available.

[Murta]

Lol man you obviously haven't seen Okafor.

This whole " you dont win with bigs like that" argument is stupid.. you don't win with someone who's not names Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Garnett, Pierce, Bryant, Dirk, James, Curry. -- Sans Detroit 2004 & that's going back 25 years.

Lets stop acting like a playing style is the way to win. Nonsense. TALENT is the way to win.

No one is saying that talent isn't the way to win. People are just challenging the notion that Okafor has as much talent as you've ascribed to him.

Re: rim protection, effective team defense isn't just about rim protection, you need guys who are laterally mobile and who can contain drives, close out shooters, hedge a pick and roll on the perimeter and recover... Al Horford isn't a big shotblocking menace but he does all those things effectively because he's light on his feet and mobile, and combines that athleticism with awareness and bball IQ. That's how Duncan has been a DPOY player for years without looking like Deandre Jordan. People aren't digging on Okafor defensively because he's not a rim protector - its the totality of being a non-rim protector, lacking the agility and athletic traits to add value away from the basket, AND the lack of effort. After all there's a reason the 76ers have been better without him than with him this season.

People aren't saying you can't win with a low post scorer. Obviously buckets are good, and not-buckets are bad. Its just that the tradeoff you make when Okafor is on the floor, at this stage in his career (low post scoring for everything else) is not a good one.
Look, if we traded for him I'd be happy. I'm all for getting younger because I'm not convinced we can attract Durant this offseason. But it's 2016 and IMO we should know better than to, 1) overstate the impact of, and 2) understate the difficulty of building around, "double double" players like Big Al, Brook Lopez, David Lee... What Okafor IS, is a rich man's Sully with more projection left.

As long as your opponent has a sweet-shooting point guard like Curry, Lillard or Paul coupled with a stretch 5 like Draymond, you just can't play with Okafor as your center because there's simply no way to defend p&r unless you have a bulldog backcourt with players like Bradley, Smart, Crowder who will pressure the ball and you'll play some kind of zone defense.
That shooting PG-C combo doesn't happen often, but Anthony Davis is in the league, KAT and Porzingis are emerging, Bender and Ellenson are coming to the league, Kaminsky can play, Love is a great player. What is more, tons of centers can punish Ellenson, Kaminsky and Love on p&r, just destroy them, but Okafor can't because it's not his game.
Of course, those guys are going to have problems with Okafor in the post, but unless your team consists of 4 shooters and Okafor, someone can help off a non-shooter.
Playing title-contending basketball with Okafor means the team has to have 3 Avery Bradlies, players who are fierce defenders and shoot the ball well.

I have no doubt in my mind Okafor is twice the player Nerlens Noel is. But if Spurs, Thunder or Cavs could take one guy from 76ers to win against Warriors, Noel would give them an incredible edge.

Okafor is still young and can improve a ton, become a guy who understands how to use his length like Marc Gasol on perimeter, but until and unless he does, there's not way to win titles with him unless he's in a weirdly specific and quality team.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Thon Maker skipped the Canadian version of the McDonald's All-American game yesterday. Probably didn't want his stock to drop because of the chance that he'd get exposed.

[No-Man]

Maker could fall hard, this year's bigs crop is really deep

[Gant]

Seems like this year's draft will force Danny to do what he normally doesn't, which is go big, go high risk/high reward, and go international.*

*Provided he doesn't largely trade out altogether.

[OFWGKTA]

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

[Murta]

Seems like this year's draft will force Danny to do what he normally doesn't, which is go big, go high risk/high reward, and go international.*

*Provided he doesn't largely trade out altogether.

When I look at this post, Ivica Zubac strikes out of my laptop. He's 7'1" with long arms, international, played only like 10 professional games due to various team situations, injuries and league rules of transfer between clubs, has the by far highest ceiling lower than 15th pick and he has had injury issues.

His floor is Dalibor Bagarić (24th pick in 2001 and you don't know anything about him for a right reason) and his ceiling is Marc Gasol. He might be a future All-star and a huge steal, or out of the league in 3 years. There's no way to know until he actually plays in the NBA and reaches a certain age.

*Those two might be the best floor/ceiling comparisons I've ever come up with for any player

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

Not impossible, although I do think his standing reach is 4" shorter than Horford's because, IMO, LSU numbers are inflated and I'm looking at Nike Hoop Summit. If he's not matched up against long post threat, I could see him being able to do good things.
BUT, his ability to player center at a good level will need exactly the same skills to play power forward at elite level. Because of that, it'd be kinda pointless unless the team really really needs a shooting PF and he doesn't develop his shot.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

He would be a fantastic small ball center counter vs Draymond Green, IMO.

[No-Man]

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

He is really bad defending as a big, similar to Jabari Parker, much better when placed on the perimeter of against a guy that plays like a wing.

[shawn unkempt]

I'm very curious to see (if we end up with the 3rd pick and don't trade out) who Ainge picks at 3. This draft feels so up in the air.

[Banks2Pierce]

I'm very curious to see (if we end up with the 3rd pick and don't trade out) who Ainge picks at 3. This draft feels so up in the air.

Strongly feel it'd be moved or gotta go with Bender or Dunn as they have the highest ceilings.

[FlatearthZorro]

I'm very curious to see (if we end up with the 3rd pick and don't trade out) who Ainge picks at 3. This draft feels so up in the air.

Dunn has the potential to be Wade 2.0, if developed correctly, I'd take him.

[FlatearthZorro]

I'm sorry, I'm not sold at all on Okafor. No reason for the 6ers to even want to listen to trade offers for him, if he has that " superstar" potential. The guy is just not made for today's game. He wont be any good for us.

Simple examples, how's he gonna be useful, when we play teams like Hawks/Warriors/Cavs, who play small and can use lineups that have potentially 2 bigs who can shoot the 3??? Who's this stiff gonna guard?

[165bows]

I was thinking that the Celtics probably see Jaylen Brown as similar to Jae Crowder in terms of position, more of a 3/4 than a 2/3 like he gets listed. Not sure how that changes his overall projection, but that's my guess as to how he is looked at based on how this team uses guys.

[Edug27]

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

He would be a fantastic small ball center counter vs Draymond Green, IMO.

He definitely can in a small ball lineup.

[Marvel]

I'm very curious to see (if we end up with the 3rd pick and don't trade out) who Ainge picks at 3. This draft feels so up in the air.

Dunn has the potential to be Wade 2.0, if developed correctly, I'd take him.

More of a Beal.

[ryaningf]

Could Simmons theorhetically play center? Height, weight, standing reach, wingspan are all around the same or slightly better than Horford. He's more athletic as well.

He would be a fantastic small ball center counter vs Draymond Green, IMO.

He definitely can in a small ball lineup.

Putting a guy who struggles with defensive intensity and awareness, a guy who goes through long stretches of passiveness, at a position that--due to his current body type--would require intense focus, intensity, and physicality to even break even seems like a huge project initially. Draymond would EAT HIM ALIVE and probably STEAL HIS SOUL. Think the time KG made Big Baby cry, only worse.

I'm all for putting smaller guys at center and spreading the court, but with Simmons I'd rather play him at PG than watch him be destroyed at center. Given the long strides he need to make on defense, developing him as a perimeter defender first seems like the best path forward. Centers and PFs need to direct the defense, talk constantly, and be adept help defenders and I really don't see Simmons doing any of that for a long time (if ever).

The guys who match up well with Draymond would be Millsap/Diaw right now and Aaron Gordon within 1-2 years. Simmons needs to play PG (on offense) a la Giannis to get his immense talent to flower IMO. Then hide him on the weakest perimeter threat on defense.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Putting a guy who struggles with defensive intensity and awareness, a guy who goes through long stretches of passiveness, at a position that--due to his current body type--would require intense focus, intensity, and physicality to even break even seems like a huge project initially. Draymond would EAT HIM ALIVE and probably STEAL HIS SOUL. Think the time KG made Big Baby cry, only worse.

How would Draymond eat him alive at center? His advantage at the 5 is due to his unique combination of length/strength/quickness, and, Ben Simmons is a bad matchup for him in all three elements.

Draymond is not a world beater offensively, and is not going to beat Simmons off the dribble. If he wants to try to back him down, that's fine by me-- it's like when the Patriots run, anytime you take the ball out of your best players hands, it's a win for the opponent.

On the other end of the court, Simmons is quicker, taller and has a better handle. He's relentless is attacking the hoop, and I'd take him, 6'10 with supperior quickness, 1 on 1 vs the slower 6'6 center every time. He may not win the majority of the battles, but Draymond will end up in foul trouble.

I'm all for putting smaller guys at center and spreading the court, but with Simmons I'd rather play him at PG than watch him be destroyed at center. Given the long strides he need to make on defense, developing him as a perimeter defender first seems like the best path forward. Centers and PFs need to direct the defense, talk constantly, and be adept help defenders and I really don't see Simmons doing any of that for a long time (if ever).

You're arguing his offensive position vs his defensive position. You stick him at the 5 to counter the look from a team like GS, otherwise you leave him as a face-up 4, much like Giannis or LeBron.

The guys who match up well with Draymond would be Millsap/Diaw right now and Aaron Gordon within 1-2 years. Simmons needs to play PG (on offense) a la Giannis to get his immense talent to flower IMO. Then hide him on the weakest perimeter threat on defense.

Given that Simmons is taller, stronger and more athletic than Gordon, I don't find it a stretch to say he could be an effective counter as a small ball center. He has the tools, he just needs focus. With a good coach and a defined role, he will definitely be serviceable on that end from the get go.

This next part isn't directed at you, but more in general, so my apology if I appear to be directing it at you:

I have no idea when it happened, but Simmons went from being criminally overrated (he's not LeBron) to being criminally underrated. The guy will be 1 of the three most athletic PF's in the league from day 1, with an elite first step and awesome second leap. He's a Russell Westbrook caliber athlete, where he just wont compare to the majority of his peers at the NBA level.

And for all the crap about him not being able to shoot, the guy scored 19 a game in conference due to his handle/first step combination. I mean, defenses absolutely camped out in the paint (which can't happen in the NBA) and he still found creases and went to the line 11 times a game in conference.

He's a relentless rebounder, which, in combination with his FTA's, show me that he's not afraid to get physical at the next level. His vision is elite, and he will average more than 5 a game from his rookie year on.

He's not the best prospect since LeBron (Oden). He's not the best prospect since Oden (Davis). But he's a tantalizing talent that I guarantee you Stevens is salivating to coach. He's an elite athlete with the ability to play multiple positions, and really everything you could ask for from a top draft pick. Good coaching will absolutely turn him into a superstar in this league-- he's built to dominate the modern pace and space game. He will be a nightmare in transition.

[Edug27]

He would be a fantastic small ball center counter vs Draymond Green, IMO.

He definitely can in a small ball lineup.

Draymond would EAT HIM ALIVE and probably STEAL HIS SOUL. Think the time KG made Big Baby cry, only worse..

Lol. You're so dramatic. Smh.