The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

Andrew McCeltic · Post #341 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Fri May 20, 2016 6:45 pm

You have to say "BPA" to keep up the trade value of your players and pick.

Phoenix has a history, funny enough, of cycling through multiple point guards at the same time. When Ainge coached them, they had Kevin Johnson all season, Steve Nash as a bench prospect, and first Sam Cassell, then Jason Kidd.. And it worked with Hornacek's team for a year, before adding IT to Dragic/Bledsoe made everyone miserable.

It can make sense, and your bench unit will play better if it has a starting-caliber point guard, but the IT/Dragic debacle shows how risky it is.

Post #342 » by **Slartibartfast** » Fri May 20, 2016 7:01 pm

How about #3/#16/#23 and Amir/Young to Utah for Hayward and #12. Draft Valentine at #12.

Sign Dwight Howard and Nene to back him up. Bring back Sully on his QO.

IT/Smart/Rozier
Hayward/AB/Hunter
Crowder/Valentine
Jerebko/KO/Sully
Howard/Nene/Mickey

Hayward dramatically upgrades ET, providing similar playmaking and vastly superior shooting and scoring efficiency. Howard should be a big upgrade on Amir (a risk on the health front, but hey), giving us more minutes, more intimidation in the paint and a studlier rebounding presence. Nene gives the bench some more high quality injury-prone beef, with Sully there to sop up minutes during the regular season.

It would be great if we could grab Korver out of Atlanta for pure cap space and our #31 and #35 picks, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. He'd be a great 1-year fix as the 4th guy in the perimeter rotation while Valentine and Hunter continue to get up to NBA speed.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #343 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Fri May 20, 2016 7:23 pm

Major overpay for Hayward, especially when we could sign him next summer outright.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #344 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Fri May 20, 2016 9:18 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Major overpay for Hayward, especially when we could sign him next summer outright.

Value wise I think it looks pretty fair. Basically the 3 and Young for Hayward, who is probably a best case scenario player for anybody we could get at 3 anyways, unless we draft Bender. The 16 and 23 is fair value to move up to 12 and Amir is thrown in to match salaries. It's not a bad trade.

Post #345 » by **Slartibartfast** » Fri May 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Major overpay for Hayward, especially when we could sign him next summer outright.

Normally I'd agree, but 1. I don't value #3 exceptionally highly in this draft and 2. I think we have a chance to make some noise next year, but not if we don't add major shooting and playmaking on the wing.

I don't think many would object to using the #3 pick and plenty more to add Butler, and while I think Butler's clearly a tier above Gordo as a 2-way player, I don't think he'd make a significantly bigger impact on our team. We already have plenty of wing defense so Butler's strength there isn't as big a deal and the weakest part of his game - deep shooting - just happens to exacerbates our biggest team weakness.

Hayward's superior shooting makes a big difference for us, and his average D isn't as much of a drawback.

Replacing ET with Hayward makes us the 2nd best team in the conference. Adding Howard on top of that puts in a position to threaten the King.

Post #346 » by **Froob** » Fri May 20, 2016 11:17 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Major overpay for Hayward, especially when we could sign him next summer outright.

Normally I'd agree, but 1. I don't value #3 exceptionally highly in this draft and 2. I think we have a chance to make some noise next year, but not if we don't add major shooting and playmaking on the wing.

I don't think many would object to using the #3 pick and plenty more to add Butler, and while I think Butler's clearly a tier above Gordo as a 2-way player, I don't think he'd make a significantly bigger impact on our team. We already have plenty of wing defense so Butler's strength there isn't as big a deal and the weakest part of his game - deep shooting - just happens to exacerbates our biggest team weakness.

Hayward's superior shooting makes a big difference for us, and his average D isn't as much of a drawback.

Replacing ET with Hayward makes us the 2nd best team in the conference. Adding Howard on top of that puts in a position to threaten the King.

You're not worried about Howard destroying the locker room? Chemistry is the best thing we have going.

ConstableGeneva · Post #347 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sat May 21, 2016 1:45 am

Hour-plus long talk on Celtics with Danny Leroux and Jared Weiss.

Host Danny Leroux (@DannyLeroux) and Jared Weiss of CLNS Radio and Celticsblog (@CLNS_JaredWeiss) go in-depth on the Boston Celtics, including where the Celtics are on their timeline (1:02), what they should do with the #3 overall pick (5:28), the roster crunch (15:32), Boston’s ability to recruit max free agents (29:20), trading for Jahlil Okafor (50:20), their favorite potential signings (1:02:44) and much more.

Roddy · Post #348 » by **Roddy** » Sat May 21, 2016 2:09 pm

-Draft :
Trade down and take Jaylen Brown
#16 : PF Domantas Sabonis
#23 : C Thon Maker

-Re-sign Evan Turner.

Free agents :
- Al Horford
- Joakim Noah

PG- Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier
SG- Avery Bradley / Evan Turner / RJ Hunter
SF- Jae Crowder / Jaylen Brown
PF- Al Horford / Domantas Sabonis / Jonas Jerebko
C- Joakim Noah / Jordan Mickey / Thon Maker

Not a championship team, but a good playoffs team.
Of course no Durant since I try something realistic.

Jaylen Brown could be a Jimmy Butler type of player.
Horford and Noah could solve our problems in the paint (even if Noah is injury prone, Sabonis and Mickey can help).

I don't want Sully and Zeller back.
Trade Olynyk and James Young.

Drax · Post #349 » by **Drax** » Sat May 21, 2016 2:18 pm

Roddy wrote:-Draft :
Trade down and take Jaylen Brown
#16 : PF Domantas Sabonis
#23 : C Thon Maker

-Re-sign Evan Turner.

Free agents :
- Al Horford
- Joakim Noah

PG- Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier
SG- Avery Bradley / Evan Turner / RJ Hunter
SF- Jae Crowder / Jaylen Brown
PF- Al Horford / Domantas Sabonis / Jonas Jerebko
C- Joakim Noah / Jordan Mickey / Thon Maker

Not a championship team, but a good playoffs team.
Of course no Durant since I try something realistic.

Jaylen Brown could be a Jimmy Butler type of player.
Horford and Noah could solve our problems in the paint (even if Noah is injury prone, Sabonis and Mickey can help).

I don't want Sully and Zeller back.
Trade Olynyk and James Young.

Just one question have you talked to Brad Stevens about this? Because we have basicly two three point shooters on the team.

Banks2Pierce · Post #350 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Sat May 21, 2016 3:58 pm

As of right now, I think the assumptions have to be:
Durant unattainable
Whiteside unattainable
Batum, Horford, Howard, DeRozan, Conley are going to cost 4/100m(probably higher for Dwight).

I think our bigs are massively underrated on here and in general, but we don't exactly have medium or long term security with them. Olynyk hits FA next summer. Amir is a 33 year old 29 year old and hitting FA at some point over the next year. Sullinger is a FA with weight and injury issues. Jerebko is 29 and a soon got be FA. I've pretty much given up on Zeller. Mickey has looked nice in his opportunities, but is still caught between the 4 and the 5. If we stay in the draft and end up with Murray, I'd look to deal Bradley for size. Someone like C. Zeller is the younger version of Amir, but CHA's got a fair amount of FAs to deal with and no real roster clarity. WCS or Gorgui as well. Would be curious to see the returns he'd fetch.

bucknersrevenge · Post #351 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Sat May 21, 2016 7:44 pm

Banks2Pierce wrote:As of right now, I think the assumptions have to be:
Durant unattainable
Whiteside unattainable
Batum, Horford, Howard, DeRozan, Conley are going to cost 4/100m(probably higher for Dwight).

I think our bigs are massively underrated on here and in general, but we don't exactly have medium or long term security with them. Olynyk hits FA next summer. Amir is a 33 year old 29 year old and hitting FA at some point over the next year. Sullinger is a FA with weight and injury issues. Jerebko is 29 and a soon got be FA. I've pretty much given up on Zeller. Mickey has looked nice in his opportunities, but is still caught between the 4 and the 5. If we stay in the draft and end up with Murray, I'd look to deal Bradley for size. Someone like C. Zeller is the younger version of Amir, but CHA's got a fair amount of FAs to deal with and no real roster clarity. WCS or Gorgui as well. Would be curious to see the returns he'd fetch.

Why this? Whiteside is gonna be looking for a payday, simple as that. Why would we be out of the picture for him?

ConstableGeneva · Post #352 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sat May 21, 2016 9:44 pm

Agent David Falk, who has a good relationship with Danny Ainge, says Jared Sullinger, Evan Turner hope to remain with Celtics.

On possibility of Sully returning for a year:

“We had a player play for the qualifying offer two years ago in Greg Monroe,” said Falk of the 6-foot-11 inside force who played out the year with Detroit and signed with Milwaukee. “He wanted the opportunity to be an unrestricted free agent and go where he wanted to go. We turned down a lot of money and we took the qualifying offer. We haven’t determined yet whether that’s a scenario that we’ll entertain with Jared, but it’s something I certainly believe in.”

On possibility of ET staying in Boston:

“If anyone asks me the number one destination where he’d like to go, I’d tell them he wants to come back to Boston. Whether or not Boston makes that happen is really more on them. Evan’s a very valuable player. If they want to protect their equity value in Evan, they’ll find a way to do that. We have a great relationship with management, and I think that’s certainly doable. Whether it happens or not, only time will tell. But we’re certainly going to make an effort to do that.”

Murta · Post #353 » by **Murta** » Sat May 21, 2016 9:55 pm

If Sully signed his measly qualifying offer, it'd be like a dream come true for Ainge.

DK-All Day · Post #354 » by **DK-All Day** » Sat May 21, 2016 9:57 pm

I would have a hard time even extending the Qualifying offer to Sully. Just pure trash.

Post #355 » by **165bows** » Sun May 22, 2016 12:14 am

Here's my pipe dream assuming no huge trade or Durant signing. Take Bender or whoever at #3, then throw $28M or whatever his max contract is at Dirk. He's the front court scorer this team needs to be palatable to watch for a year or two if they draft and develop these Nets' picks.

I know people will say Dallas this Dallas yadda yadda that but fact is Dallas has pissed away the last five years since they broke up a title winner and put zero cohesive plan in place. They also sold him on a huge paycut that went nowhere.

What's more attractive, win a playoff game at best running pick and rolls with JJ Barea (who wouldn't even be in the league if he couldn't play with Dirk), or win a couple playoff series and run pick and rolls all day long with Isaiah Thomas? I know what I'd choose.

Murta · Post #356 » by **Murta** » Sun May 22, 2016 9:38 am

Boston Celtics ranked 28th in 3pt% in 2013-14, 27th in 2014-15 and 28th in 2015-16.
Once Turner becomes too expensive for us, I really like the idea of adding Jared Dudley. It gives Marcus Smart more responsibilities with the ball and removes a bad shooter from the lineup.

Turner is a good player, but Thomas and Crowder are here to stay, Smart's value is as low as it's ever been, though he's a good player. So, only Turner and Bradley are possible low-key changes to improve. And we need Bradley's shooting.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #357 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Sun May 22, 2016 12:47 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:Agent David Falk, who has a good relationship with Danny Ainge, says Jared Sullinger, Evan Turner hope to remain with Celtics.

On possibility of Sully returning for a year:
“We had a player play for the qualifying offer two years ago in Greg Monroe,” said Falk of the 6-foot-11 inside force who played out the year with Detroit and signed with Milwaukee. “He wanted the opportunity to be an unrestricted free agent and go where he wanted to go. We turned down a lot of money and we took the qualifying offer. We haven’t determined yet whether that’s a scenario that we’ll entertain with Jared, but it’s something I certainly believe in.”

On possibility of ET staying in Boston:
“If anyone asks me the number one destination where he’d like to go, I’d tell them he wants to come back to Boston. Whether or not Boston makes that happen is really more on them. Evan’s a very valuable player. If they want to protect their equity value in Evan, they’ll find a way to do that. We have a great relationship with management, and I think that’s certainly doable. Whether it happens or not, only time will tell. But we’re certainly going to make an effort to do that.”

F*ck F*lk.

I'm glad we have a good relationship with him, I assume because Ainge takes his agent-ness in stride. It's exactly his job to say those things. But a great agent is still an agent.

Watch Sullinger take the QO and come into camp in great shape

And our "equity value" in Turner? Give me a break. Dude should get a new agent. He wants to stay here, we value him, but he can get 2-3 years at 6 million per or go away.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #358 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Sun May 22, 2016 12:52 pm

I've said before though, Turner is Stevens' crutch. A lot of what this team was able to do depended on Turner's ability as a band-aid for the other players' flaws. Take him away, give more minutes to Young, and give more ball-handling responsibilities to Smart, and we could win 5 fewer games on that alone. I don't actually think that's overstating it, it's not based on Turner's talent, it's just on all the marginal ways he helped this team. Think James Posey leaving after the first title run.

Ainge does have a history of telling replaceable free agents to f* off when they try to rise above their pay grade- Posey, Tony Allen. So F*lk can overplay his hand with Boston very easily, then go make that "very valuable player" pitch to someone receptive to it. Evan cries, Brad cries, Ainge cries, everyone hates Falk, and Turner goes to Memphis.

ConstableGeneva · Post #359 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sun May 22, 2016 3:06 pm

Sign Solomon Hill in FA, if we're not drafting a 3-and-D wing and if we're letting Turner walk. Could be a Jae Crowder type acquisition. Prototypical wing in Stevens defensive system. Can play the smallball PF on offense and guard multiple positions on defense. Can play Jae's primary backup. Will cost less than guys like Crabbe and Bazemore (just my guess). Age in line with our core guys if we're not taking the slow rebuild route.

Here's Solo's numbers from latest season compared to Jae's numbers from before he broke out. Shot well from FT though he doesn't get to the line much. 3-ball can still improve (shot really well in the playoffs). TO rate is a bit troubling for his low usage.

Mahinmi could be another FA target from Indy.

(Wow, offseason hopes going from Durant/Horford to Hill/Mahinmi. Life comes at you fast indeed.)

Afam · Post #360 » by **Afam** » Sun May 22, 2016 3:23 pm

Sometimes, it’s your secondary plans that end up coming to fruition; plans no one really thought were possible until they showed up on a transaction sheet. That’s why Ainge is preaching patience as the Celtics begin a very important summer in the franchise’s rebuild.

“My job is to always talk patience. I have to talk sense into people, because players and coaches live in the moment,” Ainge told Dan Roche in an interview for Sunday night’s Sports Final on WBZ-TV. “All of our fans and ownership live in the moment, because they want the fans to get their money’s worth. We all do, but I have to sort of keep sense of it all. My 35 years of experience in the NBA, seeing everything from good trades, bad trades, good strategies and bad, I’m trying to maintain a level of expectations that are realistic.

“I expect big things this summer, but there’s a chance we go the direction where we take these picks and bring in some young players,” Ainge cautioned. “There are some good, young players who may not be as good as some veterans on our team, and may takes some minutes away and our team record may not be good, but we think in the long run would be better for the development of our team.

“Right now, we’re trying to become a better team as fast as we can without selling out. We want to become a more significant team this upcoming year, and at the same time we want to build something that is sustainable for a long period of time,” said Ainge. “Ownership would like to see something happen faster and I know my coaches and players want to see something faster. I’ve been in their positions and I get it; I want to see something faster too. But I have to protect us from doing something irrational from doing something that gets us a little bit better. If it’s something that gets us to being a true championship contender faster, we’re all for it. As long as it’s a sustainable formula and not a one-year quick hit, sacrificing future assets.”

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/05/21/celtics-danny-ainge-realistic-expectations-for-offseason-wbz-sports-final/