All Things 2017 Draft

[31to6]

so glad people aren't being prisoners of the moment /s. UCLA just doesn't have nearly the talent Kentucky does. Blaming Ball is asinine. He looked to be banged up too. But despite the loss you could see flashes of brilliance from him especially passing and BBIQ.

BTW Fox was always this good. Maybe some of you are just now seeing that after putting others on a pedestal all year. I don't get why people have to tear some players down to prop up their personal favorite and be critical of those that don't agree. Most of these excellent prospects are similar in talent and for us, we can't go wrong with who we pick. Any of the point guards could turn out to be better than the others. Any of them. The first 6 picks could all be guards (Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, Ntilikina, Monk). Each of them brings something unique and each has a flaw(s). There's no use arguing over these kids. We'll get who we get and we'll love him no matter who it is.

1. Pretty sure Josh Jackson's going in the top 6

2. I can't argue that I think Ball's overrated? Because I don't think I'll love it if we get a scrawny guard who rarely crosses the three point line, and as I've posted before drafting someone for their beautiful passing just doesn't do it for me.

3. "Fox was always this good" -- sure he's a high lotto pick, and deservedly so (and a bit below the range that I hope we end up considering, because his J really is a limitation) -- but to look at it really simply he went 11 over his previous season high tonight. Some were Devin-Booker-esque FTs at the end, and obviously Lonzo wasn't on him all night, but Ball's going to be facing guys with elite quickness pretty often in the NBA. Ball's earned a reputation as a good defender (and has good block + steal numbers), but would you feel confident with him against Wall, Kyrie, or Westbrook or even the Teague/Schroeders of the world? I've watched him against Kentucky twice this year and had serious doubt.

[Smeff10]

Not draft related, but this Wisconsin team just won't go away. Highly likeable team.

Tough loss for them. Nigel Hayes has to be considered as a must in the second round right? He just looks like a grit and balls type player that you'd want off the bench. Almost reminds me of Jae crowder without the developed three point shot

[TommyPointGawd]

They switched Ball off Fox bc he couldn't guard him

Think they tried to shift him over to Monk once he started getting hot, but it's just like a game of wack-a-mole since Ball is the only good UCLA perimeter defender.

I couldn't disagree with this more. They were essentially trying to hide him on defense. He may actually be their worst perimeter defender.

Where are people getting this information that Ball was hurt? That is how he always plays. It just looks better when your up 10. I think he will be a better version of Rondo. That will be great to some people and not so great to others.

[sam_I_am]

so glad people aren't being prisoners of the moment /s. UCLA just doesn't have nearly the talent Kentucky does. Blaming Ball is asinine. He looked to be banged up too. But despite the loss you could see flashes of brilliance from him especially passing and BBIQ.

BTW Fox was always this good. Maybe some of you are just now seeing that after putting others on a pedestal all year. I don't get why people have to tear some players down to prop up their personal favorite and be critical of those that don't agree. Most of these excellent prospects are similar in talent and for us, we can't go wrong with who we pick. Any of the point guards could turn out to be better than the others. Any of them. The first 6 picks could all be guards (Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, Ntilikina, Monk). Each of them brings something unique and each has a flaw(s). There's no use arguing over these kids. We'll get who we get and we'll love him no matter who it is.

1. Pretty sure Josh Jackson's going in the top 6

2. I can't argue that I think Ball's overrated? Because I don't think I'll love it if we get a scrawny guard who rarely crosses the three point line, and as I've posted before drafting someone for their beautiful passing just doesn't do it for me.

3. "Fox was always this good" -- sure he's a high lotto pick, and deservedly so (and a bit below the range that I hope we end up considering, because his J really is a limitation) -- but to look at it really simply he went 11 over his previous season high tonight. Some were Devin-Booker-esque FTs at the end, and obviously Lonzo wasn't on him all night, but Ball's going to be facing guys with elite quickness pretty often in the NBA. Ball's earned a reputation as a good defender (and has good block + steal numbers), but would you feel confident with him against Wall, Kyrie, or Westbrook or even the Teague/Schroeders of the world? I've watched him against Kentucky twice this year and had serious doubt.

I think you also have to look at regular season game when UCLA won and Fox was less brilliant and not overrate one game. However, I think it is fair to say that Fox looks more like he is in a higher tier in terms of physical ability. Ball has great skill but I am not sure he can be as elite at next level - similar to concerns I had about Kentucky's Murray last year.

[Gomes3PC]

I think the only thing last night showed to me was:

1. Ball is not the kind of guy who can just take over a game with his scoring. He's the straw that stirs the drink but needs teammates. On a good team though he'll elevate everyone.

2. His defense is going to be a concern, but with Bradley and Smart, the Celtics have the types of SGs who you can and should pair Lonzo with.

Overall, though, last night was why you gotta take Fultz. If he irons out his defensive inconsistencies, he's simply going to be a far more capable two-way player. It's why I'd even consider Jackson over Ball, since again, his upside as a dominant two-way player is hard to pass up.

It's just hard for me to take a guy #1 overall if he doesn't have elite two-way potential OR is just a completely dominant scorer.

[Shamrock]

That game just reinforced what a lot of us already know, Ball is not a go-to scorer and likely never will be. If your looking for him to continually get buckets down the stretch, you'll be disappointed. If you want a floor general who will do pretty much everything on the court except score in bunches, he's your man

[SmartWentCrazy]

Jaylen Brown shot 1-6, committed 7 turnovers and fouled out in his upset loss in the tourney last year. I think it's safe to assume this UK/UCLA game changed nothing for him on Ball.

I do think it's fair that it may have validated whatever opinion he had on Fox. His athleticism is just ridiculous. Even if he never figures out his shot I am more than confident he becomes a very good player at the next level.

[Edug27]

Hopefully the hype around Ball starts to slowly simmer now. Good college player on an extremely talented team.. But I just don't see him being a dominant player at the pro level.

[31to6]

Hopefully the hype around Ball starts to slowly simmer now. Good college player on an extremely talented team.. But I just don't see him being a dominant player at the pro level.

that's the issue though I'd like the Ball hype to run strong so we have a better chance of Jackson.

[Wes-J]

I think the only thing last night showed to me was:

1. Ball is not the kind of guy who can just take over a game with his scoring. He's the straw that stirs the drink but needs teammates. On a good team though he'll elevate everyone.

2. His defense is going to be a concern, but with Bradley and Smart, the Celtics have the types of SGs who you can and should pair Lonzo with.

Overall, though, last night was why you gotta take Fultz. If he irons out his defensive inconsistencies, he's simply going to be a far more capable two-way player. It's why I'd even consider Jackson over Ball, since again, his upside as a dominant two-way player is hard to pass up.

It's just hard for me to take a guy #1 overall if he doesn't have elite two-way potential OR is just a completely dominant scorer.

Hence why I have I said I love Ball for some teams but not so much for others. That doesn't translate to a guy who is a cornerstone piece but he's a very good player. Ainge has the task of identifying the best player period. For me, Ball has never been in that conversation.

[Wes-J]

So if UCLA had Steph Curry instead of Lonzo, do they win??????? lol LaVAR

[jmr07019]

I'm not gonna pile on Ball but I've thought he was over rated for a while not. Still think he's going to be a good player just not a top 5 talent in this draft. That was my first time watching Fox though and WOW. Kid is an insane athlete. Jump shot is broken badly but he can get anywhere on the floor he wants. Going to be very interesting to see who emerges as the best PG from this draft.

[m haynes]

IMO Completely disappointed in what I saw. Ball had a bad game however he never tried of gave effort. I don't want to hear about his LA style, because that's is bull and excuse. My reason for saying that is one point in the game, Fox went coast to coast and slammed it on Ball, Ball was so pissed he went the other way coast to coast and layed it in, than he went back and took a "second seat" while his team fought hard.

Lastly, to blame it on UCLA team talent is ridicules. UCLA front court better the Uk. The UK BACK COURT much better than UCLA.

PS Gyorgy Goloman (Euro) 7 footer caught my eye last night. He made some plays and has great movement for a big guy.

http://www.cbssports.com/video/player/collegebasketball/906185283711/0/gyorgy-goloman-slams-it-down-over-kentucky-big-man-isaac-humphries

[SmartWentCrazy]

I'm not gonna pile on Ball but I've thought he was over rated for a while not. Still think he's going to be a good player just not a top 5 talent in this draft. That was my first time watching Fox though and WOW. Kid is an insane athlete. Jump shot is broken badly but he can get anywhere on the floor he wants. Going to be very interesting to see who emerges as the best PG from this draft.

All of the advanced stats I can see point to this not being true.

-Shooting 36.7% on 2PT jumpers. Not a great mark, but not terrible either [Ball and Fultz are mid 40's. Wiggins was 34, Jaylen was 31, Winslow was 27]

-Shooting ~75% from the line on great volume, which is a good number for a freshman. Better than Ball and Fultz.

-Shooting 64.8% at the rim on heavy volume and looks that are primarily unassisted. He has great touch. Better % than Fultz

His 3 this season has been bad, but I'm unconvinced his shot is broken. With some added leg strength and further repetition, I'm very confident he will be at least a league average shooter. The guy really reminds me of Westbrook.

[return2glory]

You overestimate how much stock people put into one single game. How far did Wiggins and Parker drop after their bad tournament performances?

It's not like Ball is having a bad game. It's more like he is getting exposed for being slow, especially against someone lightening quick as Fox.

Ball is not Magic. He isn't Jason Kidd either. He will be good, but I don't think he has star potential. His shot and defense are questionable.

He didn't get exposed at all. These guys have been watching him all year. Do you not think they are already aware of his weaknesses? Especially considering he got outplayed by Fox earlier in the year already. The book is out on most of these guys and a tournament game is not drastically changing anything.

I disagree. Ball is being called a top 3 prospect in this draft by many, and he showed he didn't belong in the same class as Fox. It wasn't even close.

A few more GMs will be thinking about taking Fox over Ball a little more than they had two days ago.

Again Ball is still a good player, but being dominated in his head to head match up against Fox should bring up some questions.

I get the fact that it's one game and someone like Andrew Wiggins didn't have a good game in his last college game. But Wiggins didn't didn't dominated by the oppositing SF either like Ball did against the opposing PG.

[rmal8852]

UPDATE: Saturday March 25th


ELITE 8: NCAA Men's Tournament



6:09 TBS Xavier/Zags::::::::::::::::Trevon Bluiett(5)/Z Collins(13), Wms-Goss(5),Karnowski(24)



8:49 TBS Ore/Kan:::::::::::::::::::::::Bell(1), Dorsey(5), Brooks(24)/Jackson(11),Mason III(0), Mikhailiuk(10)

[London2Boston]

At the end of the day, if GMs took the Tournament that seriously then Simmons wouldn't have gone first last year and Fultz wouldn't be set to go first this year. If qualifying for the Tournament isn't a blow to your draft stock then neither is your performance for one game.

[pasfru]

Oh boy... this thread. I'm glad I don't read the live reactions here often because you guys ride these prospects like a wave.

I have nothing bad to say about Lonzo. He managed to fool Indiana into thinking Alford was a good coach, that's all there is to say. It's pretty disrespectful that so many people are acting like Lonzo didn't give a **** out there. He played just like he always has, stop acting like this is a serious problem or anything new.

If you really want to sell prospect stock over attitude flaws, sell Fultz. If you want to sell prospect stock over lack of defensive effort, sell Fultz. People acting like Ball's gonna fall in the Draft are being ridiculous. Fultz and Ball are 1a/1b. I think it'll really come down to whether you want the gifted scorer or gifted passer, both are in the same tier, one game doesn't change that for me.

[Darth Celtic]

Every thread i've posted in i've said I don't like Ball. I'm ok taking him at 4 if he's best player available, but i don't want him at 1 or 2. Fultz and Jackson for me.

The fact he played terrible on offense and defense last doesn't make my opinion, just reinforces it.

[pasfru]

Every thread i've posted in i've said I don't like Ball. I'm ok taking him at 4 if he's best player available, but i don't want him at 1 or 2. Fultz and Jackson for me.

The fact he played terrible on offense and defense last doesn't make my opinion, just reinforces it.

10 and 8 isn't a terrible performance. It's funny that no one here can see how bad UCLA as a team played. All of the focus is on Ball. People falling all over the place, rebounds slipping out of Alford's hands, Leaf running into his own teammates.

When Lonzo's playing good, they say he's got much better teammates than Fultz. When Lonzo's playing bad, they say he's overrated and overhyped. True mark of a star player there.