Trade Thread Part Deux

[zoyathedestroya]

Trade Hayward for overpriced big like Adams and a poor man's Hayward. No.
Trade Hayward to acquire young stud-ish and also someone who can help in the playoffs now. Sure.

Would require backdoor commitment from Hayward to re-sign and they might still say no. Add picks as necessary.

To ORL for Aaron Gordon and Aminu
To IND for M.Turner and Warren/Lamb
To CHI for OPJ and WCJ
To MEM for Clarke, Iggy, and Jae

These are all fantasy trades. But we shouldn't go for less.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Don't think Isaac is available. He's got DPOY upside, great work ethic and character. The question is how much he can develop offensively. Orlando isn't that different from the Celtics - they're trying to develop young players in a winning, competitive environment. Fultz and Isaac are bright spots, Bamba is still a wild card. They're just in a tough position because they want to make the playoffs again, but the best move could be trading Vucevic.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Trade Hayward for overpriced big like Adams and a poor man's Hayward. No.
Trade Hayward to acquire young stud-ish and also someone who can help in the playoffs now. Sure.

Would require backdoor commitment from Hayward to re-sign and they might still say no. Add picks as necessary.

To ORL for Aaron Gordon and Aminu
To IND for M.Turner and Warren/Lamb
To CHI for OPJ and WCJ
To MEM for Clarke, Iggy, and Jae

These are all fantasy trades. But we shouldn't go for less.

Adams isn't overpriced. Adams/Winslow is a trade return for Hayward I'd probably endorse. Aaron Gordon also isn't exactly a "young stud". There are circumstances where I'd love to have him on the team, but ..

[Darth Celtic]

I mean, Bamba isn't good, but if you can trade Semi/Poirer/bucks pick for him, free up a roster spot for waters, do it.

[zoyathedestroya]

Trade Hayward for overpriced big like Adams and a poor man's Hayward. No.
Trade Hayward to acquire young stud-ish and also someone who can help in the playoffs now. Sure.

Would require backdoor commitment from Hayward to re-sign and they might still say no. Add picks as necessary.

To ORL for Aaron Gordon and Aminu
To IND for M.Turner and Warren/Lamb
To CHI for OPJ and WCJ
To MEM for Clarke, Iggy, and Jae

These are all fantasy trades. But we shouldn't go for less.

Adams isn't overpriced. Adams/Winslow is a trade return for Hayward I'd probably endorse. Aaron Gordon also isn't exactly a "young stud". There are circumstances where I'd love to have him on the team, but ..

Good luck engaging Heat in a trade. Baynes is getting paid 5x less than Adams and would answer the same need for the Cs. Aron shoots the 3s too. Adams is overpriced for what we require.

By young, I mean more in line with Jays/Smart timeline. He's younger than Smart by 1.5 yrs. Not a stud. Stud-ish. Good fit in Brad's system on both ends.

[FakeScreenName123]

anyone else like zero idea anymore of how trades are even possible anymore due to how the hell do we actually really value aaka what is value how does anyone figure any trade out anymore i have no clue what even draft ppicks are worth in this draft who wants kanter you know?

[Floody100]

Don't think Isaac is available. He's got DPOY upside, great work ethic and character. The question is how much he can develop offensively. Orlando isn't that different from the Celtics - they're trying to develop young players in a winning, competitive environment. Fultz and Isaac are bright spots, Bamba is still a wild card. They're just in a tough position because they want to make the playoffs again, but the best move could be trading Vucevic.

Yeah would love Isaac here. Brown at the 2, Tatum at the 3, Isaac at the 4 as our future would excite me so damn much, especially defensively.
Unfortunately no chance of that happening. A small market team like Orlando isn’t giving away someone with his potential.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Trade Hayward for overpriced big like Adams and a poor man's Hayward. No.
Trade Hayward to acquire young stud-ish and also someone who can help in the playoffs now. Sure.

Would require backdoor commitment from Hayward to re-sign and they might still say no. Add picks as necessary.

To ORL for Aaron Gordon and Aminu
To IND for M.Turner and Warren/Lamb
To CHI for OPJ and WCJ
To MEM for Clarke, Iggy, and Jae

These are all fantasy trades. But we shouldn't go for less.

Adams isn't overpriced. Adams/Winslow is a trade return for Hayward I'd probably endorse. Aaron Gordon also isn't exactly a "young stud". There are circumstances where I'd love to have him on the team, but ..

Good luck engaging Heat in a trade. Baynes is getting paid 5x less than Adams and would answer the same need for the Cs. Aron shoots the 3s too. Adams is overpriced for what we require.

By young, I mean more in line with Jays/Smart timeline. He's younger than Smart by 1.5 yrs. Not a stud. Stud-ish. Good fit in Brad's system on both ends.

Baynes is massively underpaid - if he's lucky, he'll get a one or two year deal this summer. Look at Dedmon's money.. that trade to Phoenix has done a lot for his market value.

I'm with you on young-ish for AG, but stud-ish..? He's having a horrible year offensively, he doesn't rebound well - but as a switch 4, he's not bad, and has upside if he can pull everything together. In theory he can shoot, handle, post up, and pass, but.. with his contract and the way he's playing, I think you're doing Orlando a favor by taking on his money. You don't give up Gordon Hayward for a player with a .288 3pt percentage and a 13 PER - you get back one of Fultz, Bamba or Isaac to make it viable. Even then, it might be a stretch.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd say.. if you can get one of Fultz/Isaac and Indiana is still intrigued at trading Myles Turner for Aaron Gordon, Hayward for Myles Turner and Isaac or Fultz is way more interesting.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I really don't think we are making any moves this deadline. Just nothing out there. However, I think the Celtics work with Hayward in a sign-and-trade this offseason. Perhaps we send him home to Indiana if the Pacers decide to give up on Myles Turner. Maybe Orlando, so Robyn can take the kids to Disneyworld everyday. I really don't want to see him go, but I am now grudgingly accepting the fact that his prime doesn't match up with our timeline for the 2 Js.

We traded Perkins because we couldn't afford to pay him, he was recovering from an injury, and we "needed" a young wing to reduce Pierce's minutes. If Krstic had stuck around, it's possible that trade would be remembered differently, even if losing Perk was an emotional punch in the gut.

Hayward is a similar situation, but without the risk to team morale. You can get a big, and maybe a future pick or young player, without a major hit to the offense. If it's Hayward to Orlando, Fournier to Detroit, Drummond and Fultz to Boston.. you know.. that's a big win.

The case for keeping him would be that it's not worth a short-term upgrade for an incomplete big (Drummond, Adams, Capela) when we have Rob Williams developing really nicely already. Keep Hayward around, let him and Kemba age comfortably while Brown and Tatum turn into superstars.

Why in the world would Detroit trade Drummond for Fournier?

As for Fultz - Orlando is keeping that dude. They've got no reason to trade him.

[bucknersrevenge]

There are only three teams that have four players scoring more than 16 ppg - Us, the Clippers, and OKC. Hayward is basically our 4th option. If you're expecting him to average 20+ ppg then you're going to be disappointed. He does need to be more consistent like he was during the first nine games of the season when he was our most consistent player. If he can get back there, then this team could be really good, if not, we'll have trouble making it out of the 1st Round but I believe Hayward's play will be the difference between making a good run or going out early.

I'm not 100% on board with not trading Hayward, mainly because I'm afraid that he will pull a Horford, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a trade that clearly makes the team better. I have yet to see that trade and honestly, I don't think that he has the trade value right now to replace himself (if that makes sense).

Unless management is really concerned about him leaving then I say stay the course, see who shakes loose in the buyout market and maybe make a minor trade to bolster the bench. Guys like Aaron Gordon and Robert Covington aren't better than Hayward and doesn't move the needle, at all.

I'm gonna highlight the underutilized 4th scorer point again, because I think it is the key to how this dude is perceived here. Been around long enough to know that the majority here really overemphasize per game scoring stats in evaluating players. Hayward averages 16.3ppg on 12.9 shots a game. If we were missing Tatum or Jaylen and Hayward were averaging 20.5ppg on 16 shots a game, no one would be complaining about him at all. I truly believe that.

In fact, I will go a step further and say that once you account for the differences in shots per game (and account for each additional ~2.3 free throw attempts essentially equating to an extra shot per game), there is little to no difference in the scoring efficiency of any of our top 4 right now, and that the slightly lesser PPG for Hayward is attributable almost solely to him having slightly less usage than the other 3 as a scorer.

Put another way, provided with 17 possessions a game each, all four would score 19-20ppg. If anything, Tatum would be the least efficient of the 4. For whatever reason, it is perceived differently on this board, but I don't think the facts support that.

I can’t speak for anybody else but for me it’s not a numbers thing. It’s my perception that when the team is struggling and needs him to step up, he tends to miss bunnies, miss wide open 3s, has unforced TOs and gets scorched defensively. Now the Laker game was an awesome exception. I think it’s first time all year where the team was playing like crap and Hayward helped turn the tide.

Best thing for Hayward would be a trade to a team desperate for wing play and he can average 22/6/4. Then he can opt out and get his payday. Might be good for Celtics too if they rebalance roster as he is an unnecessary luxury when we have Tatum and Brown and Smart plus emergency options on Green and Langford.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but Hayward is shooting 82% at the rim. He may have missed one important bunny last week but he's not missing that many. I apologize if anyone already posted about this. I didn't check.

[zoyathedestroya]

I'd say.. if you can get one of Fultz/Isaac and Indiana is still intrigued at trading Myles Turner for Aaron Gordon, Hayward for Myles Turner and Isaac or Fultz is way more interesting.

Way more interesting for sure. I thought my fake deals are fantastical already.
You don't think you're overvaluing Hayward in these scenarios? He's in his 30s, has a foot issue, and could bolt in the offseason.

[zoyathedestroya]

I'm gonna highlight the underutilized 4th scorer point again, because I think it is the key to how this dude is perceived here. Been around long enough to know that the majority here really overemphasize per game scoring stats in evaluating players. Hayward averages 16.3ppg on 12.9 shots a game. If we were missing Tatum or Jaylen and Hayward were averaging 20.5ppg on 16 shots a game, no one would be complaining about him at all. I truly believe that.

In fact, I will go a step further and say that once you account for the differences in shots per game (and account for each additional ~2.3 free throw attempts essentially equating to an extra shot per game), there is little to no difference in the scoring efficiency of any of our top 4 right now, and that the slightly lesser PPG for Hayward is attributable almost solely to him having slightly less usage than the other 3 as a scorer.

Put another way, provided with 17 possessions a game each, all four would score 19-20ppg. If anything, Tatum would be the least efficient of the 4. For whatever reason, it is perceived differently on this board, but I don't think the facts support that.

I can’t speak for anybody else but for me it’s not a numbers thing. It’s my perception that when the team is struggling and needs him to step up, he tends to miss bunnies, miss wide open 3s, has unforced TOs and gets scorched defensively. Now the Laker game was an awesome exception. I think it’s first time all year where the team was playing like crap and Hayward helped turn the tide.

Best thing for Hayward would be a trade to a team desperate for wing play and he can average 22/6/4. Then he can opt out and get his payday. Might be good for Celtics too if they rebalance roster as he is an unnecessary luxury when we have Tatum and Brown and Smart plus emergency options on Green and Langford.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but Hayward is shooting 82% at the rim. He may have missed one important bunny last week but he's not missing that many. I apologize if anyone already posted about this. I didn't check.

He's shooting that high around the rim since he doesn't force the issue. He sees multiple defenders in the paint, he kicks it out. Also might be the reason he hasn't gone to the FT line all that often. His high % is mostly via transition and cuts to the basket.

One can only hope the two Jays learn from him while he's still with the Cs. He's one of the brightest players in the league and just knows how to play the team game.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I really don't think we are making any moves this deadline. Just nothing out there. However, I think the Celtics work with Hayward in a sign-and-trade this offseason. Perhaps we send him home to Indiana if the Pacers decide to give up on Myles Turner. Maybe Orlando, so Robyn can take the kids to Disneyworld everyday. I really don't want to see him go, but I am now grudgingly accepting the fact that his prime doesn't match up with our timeline for the 2 Js.

We traded Perkins because we couldn't afford to pay him, he was recovering from an injury, and we "needed" a young wing to reduce Pierce's minutes. If Krstic had stuck around, it's possible that trade would be remembered differently, even if losing Perk was an emotional punch in the gut.

Hayward is a similar situation, but without the risk to team morale. You can get a big, and maybe a future pick or young player, without a major hit to the offense. If it's Hayward to Orlando, Fournier to Detroit, Drummond and Fultz to Boston.. you know.. that's a big win.

The case for keeping him would be that it's not worth a short-term upgrade for an incomplete big (Drummond, Adams, Capela) when we have Rob Williams developing really nicely already. Keep Hayward around, let him and Kemba age comfortably while Brown and Tatum turn into superstars.

Why in the world would Detroit trade Drummond for Fournier?

As for Fultz - Orlando is keeping that dude. They've got no reason to trade him.

Fournier actually only has one year on his contract after this, and it's a player option (like Drummond, like Hayward). He's having a good year. AG to Detroit would make more senses.. and yeah, I think they keep Fultz. But Fultz/AG for Hayward would leave them with Augustin/Fournier/Hayward/Isaac/Vucevic, with Ross, Aminu and Bamba on the bench. Or they could put Aminu at the 4, Isaac at the 3, Hayward at the 2, and trade Fournier for a more legit point guard.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd say.. if you can get one of Fultz/Isaac and Indiana is still intrigued at trading Myles Turner for Aaron Gordon, Hayward for Myles Turner and Isaac or Fultz is way more interesting.

Way more interesting for sure. I thought my fake deals are fantastical already.
You don't think you're overvaluing Hayward in these scenarios? He's in his 30s, has a foot issue, and could bolt in the offseason.

Who thought we'd get three unprotected 1sts for Pierce and KG? Or that Phoenix could get Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk? Etc. Come up with the deal first, let the market set value.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Hayward turns 30 in March - I don't know that he has a foot "issue", just a transient injury.

[zoyathedestroya]

I'd say.. if you can get one of Fultz/Isaac and Indiana is still intrigued at trading Myles Turner for Aaron Gordon, Hayward for Myles Turner and Isaac or Fultz is way more interesting.

Way more interesting for sure. I thought my fake deals are fantastical already.
You don't think you're overvaluing Hayward in these scenarios? He's in his 30s, has a foot issue, and could bolt in the offseason.

Who thought we'd get three unprotected 1sts for Pierce and KG? Or that Phoenix could get Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk? Etc. Come up with the deal first, let the market set value.

Hayward for KAT straight up then.

[Floody100]

I'd say.. if you can get one of Fultz/Isaac and Indiana is still intrigued at trading Myles Turner for Aaron Gordon, Hayward for Myles Turner and Isaac or Fultz is way more interesting.

What the hell are you smoking ?

[vct33]

An upgrade at C would be nice but I don’t think it’s easily accomplished so I’d rather just try to bolster the bottom of our 8 or 9-man playoff rotation. I’m thinking something like this:

Porier, Theis, Edwards, Bos 2020 FRP, Mil 2020 FRP

To Washington for:

Bertans, Wagner, IT

We get a little bigger with Wagner instead of Theis and we add some serious punch to a playoff rotation.

Walker / Thomas
Brown / Smart
Hayward
Tatum / Bertans
Kanter / Wagner

[Andrew McCeltic]

https://nesn.com/2020/01/cbs-floats-idea-for-celtics-to-land-difference-maker-at-nba-trade-deadline/

Some dude at CBS Sports came up with the exact idea I had months ago for Boston to get a high-salaried player