Omer Asik Trade - Updated link pg.109

[baubo]

I'm hearing that rondo is out of the question for the kings, or any deal, but I've got confirmations on phone calls between danny/staff and Sacramento, and Houston.

Likely nothing that pushes the Celtics over the luxury tax, Celtics looking at salary dump or picks themselves.

Nothing going on with Houston?

Yes phone calls are confirmed with Houston, but the asik deal would be contingent upon remaining under the tax line, source says Danny isn't making any deals to jeprodize that. This is still a business and that cuts into profits in a year where we don't have mega stars like PP and KG.

This should not be a problem with any Houston trade. Morey probably want more salary because it gives him the benefit of having more financial flexibility in future trades. The Rockets are over the cap right now and very far away from luxury tax. So they won't care to add a salary here or there to help the Celtics moneywise. Morey may want to preserve space for a potential 2015 run at Kevin Love though. So any contracts that extend beyond 2015 may be an issue.

[sully00]

Championships man, not Kenny Anderson. Not all-star games. Titles. Talk to me. I'm all for Asik *at the right price*, and he does improve this team in a big and crucial area of need.....what I'm asking for is simple....how does this put us in the drivers seat to either win now, or set up concurrent deals to do so?

Look don't misundertand. This isn't about trading for Omer Asik because he is a great player. This is because you already have Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger and cast of decent bench players. What you don't have is a 7' to protect the rim. Add that to the those four guys and you may have one of the best defensive teams in the NBA.

Do you have a "super star" no but you may have 5 guys who are all between 5 and 10 at their position. The Spurs, the Grizzlies, the Pacers don't have super stars but they contend for titles. Play defense and score 100 ppg that is how you win championships.

I'm 100% with you on the first paragraph. Where it becomes hazy for me is what (who) we're giving up, what hole that creates in our offense, and how that void is filled in a favorable manner. I know you don't need the reminder but here in Boston you know we're all about stifling defense and not enough buckets, thats been a central theme to our yearly failures in the playoffs. See, I don't think you need a TOP 10 player to win necessarily, but you definitely need one or more guys who you can go to to score consistently in the last 3 minutes of a close game. F a TOP 10 player. Yeah it helps, but it's about filling roles. Asik takes us back to what we were the last 2-3 years. We still need that offense down the stretch to make his soon to be contract justifiable.

Goes without saying but we can't sacrifice Green to get him. He may not be a "#1" or "#2", but he is a vital part of our offense, particularly crunch time. So there needs to be another way. We'll see. I'm skeptical about this whole thing but we'll see.

Okay yeah no shredding the team for Asik. Like I said I am talking Hump and a pick or Bass/Bogans and a pick that is it not interested in anything that moves more than one of our surplus PFs and a surplus pick. I think Ainge made an offer at the beginning of this and nobody else has and HOU is kind wondering if they don't take this deal that there may not be a deal.

[Pogue Mahone]

Asik w/o Howard

MP: 218
ORtg: 111.56
DRtg: 100.23

Asik w/o Howard (including last season with **** perimeter defenders)

MP: 2891
ORtg: 109.75
DRtg: 103.60

Howard w/o Asik

MP: 703
ORtg: 111.90
DRtg: 105.56

[Captain_Caveman]

Nothing going on with Houston?

Yes phone calls are confirmed with Houston, but the asik deal would be contingent upon remaining under the tax line, source says Danny isn't making any deals to jeprodize that. This is still a business and that cuts into profits in a year where we don't have mega stars like PP and KG.

Doesn't seem that hard to do, considering Asik's cap figure is only 5M this year. Boston has plenty of space under the cap next season, though Asik's addition could cost them one of Crawford/Bradley.

My gut says the team will find a way to be a part of the Asik deal...I just don't think it'll be for Asik.

Agree on the last sentence, but Asik's cap number is a flat 8.375m for trade or tax purposes, this year and next. His salary gets paid 5m this year and 15m next year. Same with Lin. This is part of the impetus of trading him early, as they can offset his balloon payment next season by taking on more than his $5m paid salary this season. Long story short, it costs an extra $1-2m for a team to give Houston the same offer at the trade deadline as opposed to now.

[SichtingLives]

Look don't misundertand. This isn't about trading for Omer Asik because he is a great player. This is because you already have Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger and cast of decent bench players. What you don't have is a 7' to protect the rim. Add that to the those four guys and you may have one of the best defensive teams in the NBA.

Do you have a "super star" no but you may have 5 guys who are all between 5 and 10 at their position. The Spurs, the Grizzlies, the Pacers don't have super stars but they contend for titles. Play defense and score 100 ppg that is how you win championships.

I'm 100% with you on the first paragraph. Where it becomes hazy for me is what (who) we're giving up, what hole that creates in our offense, and how that void is filled in a favorable manner. I know you don't need the reminder but here in Boston you know we're all about stifling defense and not enough buckets, thats been a central theme to our yearly failures in the playoffs. See, I don't think you need a TOP 10 player to win necessarily, but you definitely need one or more guys who you can go to to score consistently in the last 3 minutes of a close game. F a TOP 10 player. Yeah it helps, but it's about filling roles. Asik takes us back to what we were the last 2-3 years. We still need that offense down the stretch to make his soon to be contract justifiable.

Goes without saying but we can't sacrifice Green to get him. He may not be a "#1" or "#2", but he is a vital part of our offense, particularly crunch time. So there needs to be another way. We'll see. I'm skeptical about this whole thing but we'll see.

Okay yeah no shredding the team for Asik. Like I said I am talking Hump and a pick or Bass/Bogans and a pick that is it not interested in anything that moves more than one of our surplus PFs and a surplus pick. I think Ainge made an offer at the beginning of this and nobody else has and HOU is kind wondering if they don't take this deal that there may not be a deal.

If we can get him without sacrificing our core, absolutely. even at the price he's soon to command. it is a win now move with probably a few more to follow, but it's a fair play. I hate to give up Bass because of how much he means to the clubhouse and guys on the team at this point, but he is expendable from a line-up perspective. But clearing him and Hump at the same time makes you short at the 4 and suddenly putting a lot of weight on rooks KO and Fav to shore the line, and thats assuming Sully's gonna be healthy.

I dunno. Even that move is higher stakes than it seems. I know we aren't winning **** with what we have but I like the idea of depth and development at this point still.

What makes me lol is we got all these guys now to fill roles we desperately needed filled 09-13......but then I think back that Doc wouldn't have used them effectively anyway.

[frickenWaaaltah]

Danny shouldn't offer them anything more than Humphries for Asik straight up and that is it. Even then I'm not sure I like what that does to the Celtics in Summer 2015. The Celtics are also more likely to get a draft pick for Humphries this year than the Rockets are for Asik.

Draft picks are all about long term value, and Asik's contract is the worst of both worlds: way overpriced and only has one season remaining. You have to pay him a lot of money for one year, and then he could leave you with nothing so you'd be insane to give away a draft pick for him. The only way the Rockets could get a draft pick for Asik is to create long term value for a team, so like if they trade him for a bad contract(s) + draft pick combo, and Asik is already a pretty bad contract.

But the Rockets want the world for Asik and it's just ridiculous so they're probably going to get stuck holding onto him at the deadline and will have to pay him next year after all.

[sully00]

Asik expires before the summer of '15. Boston is going to get nothing for Humphries that doesn't involve taking on long term salary that actually probably would impact FA in 2015.

[ThirtyFour]

Sorry if this has been covered already but can't the celtics use PP Trade exception for Asik and maybe sweeten with a pick? Wouldn't that money then just come off of houston's books? I really don't understand the trade exception thing very well, even after reading about it. FWIW espn trade checker says it works! Not sure if Houston would be interested in that.

[Banks2Pierce]

Sorry if this has been covered already but can't the celtics use PP Trade exception for Asik and maybe sweeten with a pick? Wouldn't that money then just come off of houston's books? I really don't understand the trade exception thing very well, even after reading about it. FWIW espn trade checker says it works! Not sure if Houston would be interested in that.

Houston needs a player as well. The asking for a pick is getting some media play, but a solid player back is their absolute minimum level of acceptable return.

[Captain_Caveman]

Sorry if this has been covered already but can't the celtics use PP Trade exception for Asik and maybe sweeten with a pick? Wouldn't that money then just come off of houston's books? I really don't understand the trade exception thing very well, even after reading about it. FWIW espn trade checker says it works! Not sure if Houston would be interested in that.

Nope... even if we felt like getting destroyed in lux taxes, we have a hard cap at the apron of $75.7m due to Bogans being a sign-and-trade.

[ThirtyFour]

Sorry if this has been covered already but can't the celtics use PP Trade exception for Asik and maybe sweeten with a pick? Wouldn't that money then just come off of houston's books? I really don't understand the trade exception thing very well, even after reading about it. FWIW espn trade checker says it works! Not sure if Houston would be interested in that.

Nope... even if we felt like getting destroyed in lux taxes, we have a hard cap at the apron of $75.7m due to Bogans being a sign-and-trade.

So we would be adding salary in that PP TE doesn't count against the tax and we'd be adding 8mil from asik? I wasn't sure if the trade exception counted.

[Captain_Caveman]

Sorry if this has been covered already but can't the celtics use PP Trade exception for Asik and maybe sweeten with a pick? Wouldn't that money then just come off of houston's books? I really don't understand the trade exception thing very well, even after reading about it. FWIW espn trade checker says it works! Not sure if Houston would be interested in that.

Nope... even if we felt like getting destroyed in lux taxes, we have a hard cap at the apron of $75.7m due to Bogans being a sign-and-trade.

So we would be adding salary in that PP TE doesn't count against the tax and we'd be adding 8mil from asik? I wasn't sure if the trade exception counted.

That's correct. Exceptions only count against the cap as far as calculating possible cap room, not for lux taxes.

[Marvel]

What if Danny's thinking of having a frontcourt duo similar to Z-Bo and Gasol in Memphis with Sullinger and Asik. Obviously, Asik isn't the offensive player Marc is, but he could provide the defense of Marc.

[FlatearthZorro]

If the Rockets want Green, the only to get Green from Ainge is to give us Parsons. Maybe Green + filler+ pick for Parsons + Asik. I think the Rockets like Green, cause him and Chandler are similar and Parsons is about to get paid. So not sure if the deal is good.

[Datruth345]

always gotta keep an eye out for LBF posts in threads like these

salute

[15th overall]

So would any/all straight up Asik trades push us over the luxury tax? Or more specifically.. does a deal to clear up cap room for luxury tax purposes have to be done before bringing in Asik or can the numbers be fudged after the fact? I'm totally CBA ignorant here.

[mwhis21]

Are you implying that if we trade Bass for Asik we'd be on the same level as the team with the best record in the league? Or are you simply saying that lineup could become as good as them?

Either way I think it's ridiculous.

It's not that ridiculous. Add in Asik to the current team and it's one of the best defensive teams in the league. Rondo/Bradley alone will absolutely DESTROY the Pacers backcourt. Who do you suggest brings the ball up against Rondo/Bradley. Paul George? I hope that's your answer because that is how the Celtics would beat Indiana, make George be a play maker not a scorer.

That would be an AWESOME series.

So you think the Celtics with Asik and a healthy Rondo is an elite team?

Are you asking or are you putting words in my mouth? Because no where did I mention elite. I'll indulge you though.

Defensively, yes they would be elite. Offensively, they'd still leave much to be desired. Just in case you forgot, or you're to young to remember, the Celtics won the 2008 NBA title on the back of the arguably the best defense in the league. They remained that way, and remained an "elite" team despite SERIOUS offensive issues.

You should absolutely NOT underestimate how good our team would be defensively with Rondo and Asik to the current mix. Top 3 defense, and that will make for a very competitive series against the Pacers.

[campybatman]

Although I would prefer to acquire Marcin Gortat's expiring contract from Washington, I'm okay with acquiring Omer Asik only if it doesn't involve surrendering a first round pick to Houston.

Marc Stein: My sense @Sean Grande IS that Green winds up in the Asik deal only if he's routed to a third team not named Houston. My SENSE as we speak Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Marc Stein: Important footnote to keep in mind if Boston does jump into the eventual Omer Asik deal so many folks expect to involve at least 3 teams ... Celtics are a little less than $135,000 under the luxury-tax line ... so that will undoubtedly factor into anything they decide to do. Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

[smith2373]

It's not that ridiculous. Add in Asik to the current team and it's one of the best defensive teams in the league. Rondo/Bradley alone will absolutely DESTROY the Pacers backcourt. Who do you suggest brings the ball up against Rondo/Bradley. Paul George? I hope that's your answer because that is how the Celtics would beat Indiana, make George be a play maker not a scorer.

That would be an AWESOME series.

So you think the Celtics with Asik and a healthy Rondo is an elite team?

Are you asking or are you putting words in my mouth? Because no where did I mention elite. I'll indulge you though.

Defensively, yes they would be elite. Offensively, they'd still leave much to be desired. Just in case you forgot, or you're to young to remember, the Celtics won the 2008 NBA title on the back of the arguably the best defense in the league. They remained that way, and remained an "elite" team despite SERIOUS offensive issues.

You should absolutely NOT underestimate how good our team would be defensively with Rondo and Asik to the current mix. Top 3 defense, and that will make for a very competitive series against the Pacers.

If you're saying the Celtics with Rondo & Asik are on the same level or would be just as good as the team with the 2nd best record in the league (Which is what the guy who originally made the comparison basically said), then yes you basically are saying a team of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik would be an elite team. Which is why in my initial post I said it's completely ridiculous.

[mwhis21]

So you think the Celtics with Asik and a healthy Rondo is an elite team?

Are you asking or are you putting words in my mouth? Because no where did I mention elite. I'll indulge you though.

Defensively, yes they would be elite. Offensively, they'd still leave much to be desired. Just in case you forgot, or you're to young to remember, the Celtics won the 2008 NBA title on the back of the arguably the best defense in the league. They remained that way, and remained an "elite" team despite SERIOUS offensive issues.

You should absolutely NOT underestimate how good our team would be defensively with Rondo and Asik to the current mix. Top 3 defense, and that will make for a very competitive series against the Pacers.

If you're saying the Celtics with Rondo & Asik are on the same level or would be just as good as the team with the 2nd best record in the league (Which is what the guy who originally made the comparison basically said), then yes you basically are saying a team of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Asik would be an elite team. Which is completely ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm done with our chat. If you want to have an intelligent debate let me know.