Jackie M - Rondo wants out?

[jfs1000d]

I think he needs to go before training camp. It's just time to move on. He's a very good player, a teriffic talent, but we aren't able to surround him with the right players,

[calamity]

Rockets fan? and your motive here is? Don't really agree with much of what you said. Too much volatility and variability. Also Rondo doesnt fit with Harden and your team doesnt have great assets anyway.

Motive? I come here in case there are nuggets regarding Rondo I'm interested in. I certainly have no illusions that I can somehow interfere with the inner workings of an NBA front office. I thought I'd simply share my experience as a fan who went through two rebuilds following Olajuwon and then T-Mac/Yao.

If you disagree, so be it. It's is my own opinion after all. But to think I can have an agenda quite frankly is insulting to what I believe to be one of the best front offices in the NBA.

Wasn't trying to insult. Just disagree with a couple of the premises. Best front office in the NBA? well it's hard to solidly say that when they, with all of their impressive efforts, still have yet to go deep in the playoffs.

[165bows]

I don't entirely get the idea that there is no market for Rondo out there.

Here is Sacramento's PG depth chart: Darren Collison, Ray McCallum

Here is Dallas': Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson, Ray Felton

Collison is the only guy on that list who shot 40%FG last year, and he's been on the verge of losing his starting gig for most of his career. Sure the PG position is deep across the league but that just means those teams are trying to make the playoffs in the western conference at a disadvantage at that position almost every single night.

[bucknersrevenge]

I don't entirely get the idea that there is no market for Rondo out there.

Here is Sacramento's PG depth chart: Darren Collison, Ray McCallum

Here is Dallas': Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson, Ray Felton

Collison is the only guy on that list who shot 40%FG last year, and he's been on the verge of losing his starting gig for most of his career. Sure the PG position is deep across the league but that just means those teams are trying to make the playoffs in the western conference at a disadvantage at that position almost every single night.

I'd take Collison back in a deal for Rondo too. He'd be a great veteran backup PG to play behind Smart and also show him a few things.

[Captain_Caveman]

It's not all relative. I would much rather be 4 spots higher in the lottery, everything else being equal. I don't think there is much debate that there is a super strong correlation between draft position and your odds of landing MVP/All-Star/Starter/rotation player talent. Even accounting for one's ability to develop talent, for each spot down the draft, you probably lose 3-5% odds of those things happening.

This also relates (strongly, IMO) to the value of our collective assets. Some of these late 1sts we have are nothing more than lottery tickets, and you aren't going to hit gold on all of them. For every Tony Allen, there's a JaJuan Johnson, if not a Fab Melo as well. Even then, TA took a long time to become TA. So I'm not overly concerned with having "too many" assets for the time being. Aside from Smart, and maybe one of those Nets picks, none of them are likely to be of the blue chip variety.

So we should have won more games last year so we could have drafted first instead of Cle.

I understand how math works. All of the teams who won fewer games picked above us. I was OK with that, but if people are trying to argue that there is no difference between picking four spots later in the lottery because all prospects are unknowns (or that there is no difference in lottery odds depending of how many games you win), that's just asinine hairsplitting.

I'd trade Smart for Parker. So would anyone.

[KGboss]

Today you would trade Smart for Parker. Sure. Of course. But you also have no idea who will end up being the better player so youre only trading apples for apples when you are talking about these two players.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Ok, so how about this:

Would Ainge be interested in keeping Rondo around (and would Rondo be interested in staying) if he got Josh Smith for cheap (e.g. either Sully/Olynyk, Wallace, Clippers pick, maybe the Cleveland pick)? That clock keeps ticking for Monroe, and you gotta figure that the last thing Detroit wants is Monroe to sign that qualifying offer. They may get desperate and dump Josh Smith. I think that the addition of Smith makes the team more athletic, capable of causing havoc on defense. Smith's contract sucks, but if the Cs get rid of Wallace in the deal, and Jeff Green opts out, the Celtics could still have enough room under the cap to chase a big free agent, and still have the Brooklyn picks and Smart/Young and either Sully/Olynyk to use for a trade.

[Berkcelt]

I don't entirely get the idea that there is no market for Rondo out there.

Here is Sacramento's PG depth chart: Darren Collison, Ray McCallum

Here is Dallas': Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson, Ray Felton

Collison is the only guy on that list who shot 40%FG last year, and he's been on the verge of losing his starting gig for most of his career. Sure the PG position is deep across the league but that just means those teams are trying to make the playoffs in the western conference at a disadvantage at that position almost every single night.

The problem isn't that nobody wants him or no team wants to pay him, it's that there's no good trade partners. Sacramento isn't an option if he tells them no way in hell I'm resigning. What can Dallas offer us? The other problem is he hasn't shown much since his injury; assuming he does, we're then offering half or two-thirds of a season max of a guy who will promptly be a free agent. The returns are going to be weak pretty much no matter what.

He may very well have been traded before last season had he not injured his knee, but he did and right now we don't have a lot of options as far as I can see.

[truth18]

This is the realgm thread of the week? Seriously?

Slow week I guess.

[OBisHalJordan]

Ok, so how about this:

Would Ainge be interested in keeping Rondo around (and would Rondo be interested in staying) if he got Josh Smith for cheap (e.g. either Sully/Olynyk, Wallace, Clippers pick, maybe the Cleveland pick)? That clock keeps ticking for Monroe, and you gotta figure that the last thing Detroit wants is Monroe to sign that qualifying offer. They may get desperate and dump Josh Smith. I think that the addition of Smith makes the team more athletic, capable of causing havoc on defense. Smith's contract sucks, but if the Cs get rid of Wallace in the deal, and Jeff Green opts out, the Celtics could still have enough room under the cap to chase a big free agent, and still have the Brooklyn picks and Smart/Young and either Sully/Olynyk to use for a trade.

Celtics should trade for both Smith and Monroe. Thorton, Sully, Wallace, Faverani, Bass Clippers Pick, 76ers pick for Smith, Monroe & Jerebko

[CelticFaninLBC]

Ok, so how about this:

Would Ainge be interested in keeping Rondo around (and would Rondo be interested in staying) if he got Josh Smith for cheap (e.g. either Sully/Olynyk, Wallace, Clippers pick, maybe the Cleveland pick)? That clock keeps ticking for Monroe, and you gotta figure that the last thing Detroit wants is Monroe to sign that qualifying offer. They may get desperate and dump Josh Smith. I think that the addition of Smith makes the team more athletic, capable of causing havoc on defense. Smith's contract sucks, but if the Cs get rid of Wallace in the deal, and Jeff Green opts out, the Celtics could still have enough room under the cap to chase a big free agent, and still have the Brooklyn picks and Smart/Young and either Sully/Olynyk to use for a trade.

If they're keeping Rondo, Smith's probably the best player they can get at this point... Maybe Hibbert's available too, but his price tag seems hefty for a possible one year rental.

[dgwdum]

Ok, so how about this:

Would Ainge be interested in keeping Rondo around (and would Rondo be interested in staying) if he got Josh Smith for cheap (e.g. either Sully/Olynyk, Wallace, Clippers pick, maybe the Cleveland pick)? That clock keeps ticking for Monroe, and you gotta figure that the last thing Detroit wants is Monroe to sign that qualifying offer. They may get desperate and dump Josh Smith. I think that the addition of Smith makes the team more athletic, capable of causing havoc on defense. Smith's contract sucks, but if the Cs get rid of Wallace in the deal, and Jeff Green opts out, the Celtics could still have enough room under the cap to chase a big free agent, and still have the Brooklyn picks and Smart/Young and either Sully/Olynyk to use for a trade.

Celtics should trade for both Smith and Monroe. Thorton, Sully, Wallace, Faverani, Bass Clippers Pick, 76ers pick for Smith, Monroe & Jerebko

What are the pistons getting of value in this deal? It's basically garbage players and Contracts for a 24 yo center and an overrated player in smith. But at least smith can still play.

Bad trade for detroit, I don't see how they would accept that.

[165bows]

I don't entirely get the idea that there is no market for Rondo out there.

Here is Sacramento's PG depth chart: Darren Collison, Ray McCallum

Here is Dallas': Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson, Ray Felton

Collison is the only guy on that list who shot 40%FG last year, and he's been on the verge of losing his starting gig for most of his career. Sure the PG position is deep across the league but that just means those teams are trying to make the playoffs in the western conference at a disadvantage at that position almost every single night.

The problem isn't that nobody wants him or no team wants to pay him, it's that there's no good trade partners. Sacramento isn't an option if he tells them no way in hell I'm resigning. What can Dallas offer us? The other problem is he hasn't shown much since his injury; assuming he does, we're then offering half or two-thirds of a season max of a guy who will promptly be a free agent. The returns are going to be weak pretty much no matter what.

He may very well have been traded before last season had he not injured his knee, but he did and right now we don't have a lot of options as far as I can see.

I've pretty much spelled out the options as I see it, though it's quite possible you are right. The way I see it the value for a trading team isn't just the half season rental, it is getting him for this season combined with a significant leg up in resigning him by acquiring his bird rights, and exchanging some junk salary that can't play for Rondo who hopefully shows this season he can.

Edit - I really wouldn't be surprised to see the Mavs throw 2-3 picks/pick swaps to try to make it happen while moving Felton/Nelson with some other minor guys. They've essentially traded down or out of every draft since 2008, and have about a 2-3 year window. It wouldn't be the best possible return, but a lightly protected pick in 2017-18 would be the best bet in that type of package for a solid return. I just feel like that is the bar that the various SAC/Houston teams will have to get over.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Here's a rough idea:

Rondo to IND
Hibbert to CHA
assets to BOS (MKG, Vonleh, pick, IND pick, and fold in an asset (MKG, Zeller?) to SAC for Mclemore)

[Andrew McCeltic]

A variation on the Rondo to CHA, but this time the Hornets get an elite defensive big, keep Kemba..

[165bows]

It's not all relative. I would much rather be 4 spots higher in the lottery, everything else being equal. I don't think there is much debate that there is a super strong correlation between draft position and your odds of landing MVP/All-Star/Starter/rotation player talent. Even accounting for one's ability to develop talent, for each spot down the draft, you probably lose 3-5% odds of those things happening.

This also relates (strongly, IMO) to the value of our collective assets. Some of these late 1sts we have are nothing more than lottery tickets, and you aren't going to hit gold on all of them. For every Tony Allen, there's a JaJuan Johnson, if not a Fab Melo as well. Even then, TA took a long time to become TA. So I'm not overly concerned with having "too many" assets for the time being. Aside from Smart, and maybe one of those Nets picks, none of them are likely to be of the blue chip variety.

So we should have won more games last year so we could have drafted first instead of Cle.

I understand how math works. All of the teams who won fewer games picked above us. I was OK with that, but if people are trying to argue that there is no difference between picking four spots later in the lottery because all prospects are unknowns (or that there is no difference in lottery odds depending of how many games you win), that's just asinine hairsplitting.

I'd trade Smart for Parker. So would anyone.

I had my two months obsession with Parker but the guy shot 45%/30%/73% in conference play with an atrocious assist rate, and likely tops out as average defensively. Plus he looks like he just finished drinking buttermilk in interviews. Maybe he wins ROY but it will be the MCW variety where he puts up 15/7 on 40% shooting.

If Smart can do a sane version of Artest I'm more than happy with that.

[JamesConway]

Edit - I really wouldn't be surprised to see the Mavs throw 2-3 picks/pick swaps to try to make it happen while moving Felton/Nelson with some other minor guys. They've essentially traded down or out of every draft since 2008, and have about a 2-3 year window. It wouldn't be the best possible return, but a lightly protected pick in 2017-18 would be the best bet in that type of package for a solid return. I just feel like that is the bar that the various SAC/Houston teams will have to get over.

Very hard to guess, I know there were legit reports rom Woj, Stein & DAL media guys about the Mavs trying to trade for Rondo before 2013's FA started, but quite a lot things changed since back then. Rondo's deal is an expiring one now, DAL brought in Ellis a year ago, Monta had a lot of success with the Mavs, this time we're not a couple of days before FA starts, but already months into it, etc.

I could see us being extremely interested in Rondo once again, though I could also envision the Mavs having some concerns about a potential Ellis/Rondo backcourt due to their lack of shooting & both being high usage guys. Maybe that scares them away too much to put together such an offer (those picks are pretty much our only 'real' assets) & they decide to wait until FA to make a pitch. Shaking up our roster would likely also be an issue to us as such a trade would create one or maybe even more holes at other positions in our rotation. Very hard to guess on which side Cuban, Nelson & Carlisle are on this one Imo. There'd be a lot of pros & cons.

Personally, I'd love to have Rondo though. I think he's still a high quality player & a great competitor. I'd be ecstatic if the Mavs could find a way to make a trade for him.

What I'd offer:

Two 1st round picks (three is too much for an expiring contract Imo)
Wright
Felton
Crowder
Ledo or Mekel
As many 2nd rounders as you want (we usually hand those out like candy anyway ... )

for

Rondo
Faverani or Sullinger ('cause shipping out Wright would creat a huge hole in our frontcourt-rotation)

I know reading Felton's name in any trade scenario is always a bummer, but there's no way the Mavs could match salaries without shipping him out (I'm pretty sure they wouldn't move Ellis). Though I don't think his contract is THAT horrible. He earns only $3,7M & he has a player option for next season. Maybe he even decided to opt out in case he has a better year than last season.

Do you think that offer would be somewhere in the ballpark?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, I could see us taking that offer at the deadline if it's the best on the table- though not so good that it's a definite yes. Sullinger isn't a throw-in for us, he's (sadly) a building block. Faverani is probably in the mix- Bass and Joel Anthony are yours, but I don't think salaries match...


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[Captain_Caveman]

Not perfect, not terrible. Be no Sullinger in that deal, though.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think we'd ask for three 1sts, only because Dallas is likely to make the playoffs for several years with Rondo, Dirk, Parsons, Ellis, Chandler..


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