Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt. 10: Free Agency is in Free Flow

[Parasite]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This is the same guy who said we were bringing Morris back a day before he signed with the Spurs. GTFOH with this guy.

[Triple7]

Couldn't sign 2 $5mm guys without resigning Theis. Kanter was signed with an exception.

Stein signed for a slightly above the minimum.

Kanter a better player


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn’t talking about Kanter. I love that signing. I was comparing Theis vs Stein. Should have gotten him instead of theis.

[Triple7]

Or Eric Gordon/picks for Justise Winslow

Kemba
Jaylen
Winslow
Tatum
Capela?

Winslow sucks!

[Jakeopp]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I'm so gald this rumor didn't die. I think Capela is the missing piece for us to be able to compete with MIL and PHI.

Now hopefully we can make the package around Brown instead of Hayward and I will be happy as a clam.

Kemba
Hayward
Tatum
Capela
Kanter

Smart
Edwards
Langford
GWill
Theis

That's looking like a balanced roster. Then we can focus on get a vet presence on the bench and we're battling with anybody.

You're either really overrating this team or overrating Clint Capela if you think he's the difference between us and the Sixers/Bucks right now.

Plus, You really got Kanter and Capela starting together?

[Floody100]

Well they are both good rebounders. Capela is a lock down paint guy and Kanter is a decent scorer. I think it's solid.

Plus you can go small with Capela because of how good he is defensively. so you could have some

Kemba
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Capela

Lots of options when you have a good defensive big.

Ones a poor 3 point shooter & the other doesn’t shoot outside shots at all. I don’t want them both on the floor together ... ever.

Kemba, Hayward and Tatum are all good shooters. Kanter is good in the pick and roll and Capela is a good rim runner. There's nothing wrong with that line up.

It’s not 1995 anymore, it’s a shooters league now. Playing 2 centres who can’t play the 4 is absolutely disastrous. Most teams now are playing guys that can play both the 4 & 5 at centre anyway.

[Jakeopp]

I’m curious everyone’s non-biased opinion on how Kemba and Westbrook could fit together in Brad’s system..

Don’t see Westbrook as a fit, not to mention that contract

I have thought it through over the last hour or so and I am all in on this idea. Kemba can play off the ball and Boston would be pushing the ball at a pace that would make Tommy proud.

To some extent you have to evaluate your opponents. To me the biggest obstacles in the East are MIL and PHI, their strength and their weakness is their size. Two ways to counteract that one try to match that size defensively difficult to do, the other is create a small ball match up that doesn't allow them to utilize their strength. Their back courts suck and they would have a nightmare dealing with Westbrook and Walker.

I question Westbrook's late game judgement but not his heart and effort. I think Brad could help and I think he would defer those 37 footers to Kemba anyhow that is what he does.

Everything has its price but if a couple of firsts and Hayward gets you Westbrook friggin sold.

Westbrook is a better player than Gordon Hayward, but I'm also convinced he can't play a winning brand of basketball. He's 30, his game is built on his athleticism, which is declining. He can't shoot from anywhere. His decision making is awful at times. He's ball-dominant which doesn't fit well with guys like Kemba and Tatum, who also need the basketball to be effective.

Pass.

[SLCceltic]

Want no part of Russ ...Capela is very interesting given his size &skill set. He can play as only big and we should be just fine ...provided our offense is flowing and he is not depended on to score...

We still need one or two shooting specialists... I believe DA will make more moves to raise the overall talent from pseudo contender to legit contenders ...

[reload141]

Think I would rather gamble on Hayward returning to form rather than move him for Capela. Team is dangerously low on playmaking as is. Losing Horford really hurt in that aspect as well. Hayward, Kemba and Smart are really all they have for the moment

FYI - I think Hayward is the most likely to be moved still, heard a rumour of it still happening but I honestly have no idea what it would be for.

Even with brad and his relationship? U think Stevens would co-sign that? and if not would danny even consider it?

Yep, if it brings us closer to Banner 18 they’d convince him it’s the right move.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

This is the first off-season where I really haven't liked what Danny did/didn't do. Before I've had nitpicks. This year, I fundamentally disagree with the direction.

We're kinda stuck in the middle. Young team with 2 older conceivable all-stars, 2 possible all stars in the making. 3 at the same position. No real tradeable salary to improve during the season. I didn't want to go the Kemba route, but I understand the thinking. What I don't get is if we went that route, why not prepare to improve the team at the deadline? There were no/low cost ways of manipulating transactions in order to add Trey D Ballast, but we didn't do any of them.

For the first time in the last few years, we're not straddling youth and contention. You can't say we're even fringe contenders. We also aren't really super-flexible to add players, which is usually an Ainge hallmark, since we don't have the salaries to allow it. Plus, you've openly declared that a Smart/Brown backcourt isn't the plan long term - after starting each of them for most of one of the previous 2 seasons. And in order to play all your best players, you have to go very small. The team will be fun to watch, could win more games in the regular season even, but ECF is the absolute ceiling. And, that is best case scenario dependent on seeding.

Our non-Kemba roster (even taking the draft and most of the signings as is) could very conceivably have been:

Smart/Brown/Tatum/Harkless/Ed Davis
McConnell/Langford/Igoudola/Williams/RWIII
Edwards/Semi/Theis/Poirier/Yabu
2-ways: Waters, Tacko

Plus 2 first found picks from POR and GSW salary dumps. That is based on real trades we could have had the cap space to make, and signings at salary other teams have made.

That lineup let's you focus more on developing Brown/Tatum, but also have solid veterans up front, along with a couple young bigs. You have 2 perfect salary pieces that contenders could want in trades in Harkless at $11M, Iggy at $17M. Theis & Davis at ~$5M as well. You added 2 first round picks. And your ceiling is just as high as the Kemba-based team - if not a little higher. And your cap looks great for next summer even with Brown signing with the expirings coming off (unless you already traded them for another long term piece).

We had a chance to really reload around Brown & Tatum, but we basically punted it for a short-term retool. I'm very happy to be proven wrong here, but I just don't see anything that really set us up for contention this year, or greased the wheels for it in the future.

I know people will say 'look what the kids did two years ago', but a team built around Tatum and Brown is a 40 win team. I didn't wanna say it out loud, but Tatum might end up being Tobias Harris, good but not great player. I'm still hopeful he might take the next step.

I'm not a believer in Brown so I won't even comment on him. IMO, one of the most overrated young players in the league. Wings that get their value from volume shooting and don't do anything else are generally bad contracts. Would love to be wrong on him, don't think it will happen.

That team you posted above would have zero creation and would end up killing Tatum's and Brown's efficiency even further. I don't wanna harp on it, but what separates good from elite wings is the ability to create GOOD shots for themselves or their team.

Tatum go-to move is pull-up midrange shot, doesn't get to the FT line at all. So far in his career, his best shots, efficiency wise, are catch and shot 3 after someone penetrates and kicks out after D collapses, or him attacking closeout after that same penetrate and kick out action.

Kemba is a perfect guy to get him his best shots. Now imagine if he has to take 20 shots a game with Smart as starting PG. Half of them would be mid-range pull-ups.

Brown's ball handling is horrid. Unless there is a straight line drive available he'll just turn it over or jack it up. His lack of basketball IQ and tunnel vision are massive obstacles of him every becoming anything more than a 3&D guy - which would be completely fine.. but he refuses to play that role. If you don't believe me, go on basketball reference and find wings that averaged more TOs than assists in their first three seasons. Bunch of bums.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Playmaking is definitely an issue, but almost purposely so. Smart, Hayward, and Brad's offense will generate some of it. But, we need to find out if Brown/Tatum can't do it at all, or if they can evolve and become more effective at it. If they can't, we're not building around the right pieces. If we rely on Kemba to spoon feed them, how does that help long term? We've never given them the reps normal #3 picks get. That lineup isn't meant to win, but to develop Brown/Tatum by taking the training wheels away, and be flexible and have assets that you can use in trades when they come up - extra salaries, extra picks. Granted, you run the risk of Brown/Tatum falling flat on their faces and killing all their value. But, you also have the chance they don't and develop. There's enough of a veteran/playmaking presence with Smart/Hayward/Iggy/McConnell to not be horrific, but not so much as to hinder them.

The current team to me is kinda devoid of that type of risk, but also of reward. Are we really gonna build a contender around two 29 year olds, one who probably peaked last year or maybe this year, one who may never recover to his pre-injury level? One who is 6'1", and plays ahead of 3 of our 4 draft picks? While the other plays the same position as our prize prospect?

If the new rumors are true and we somehow trade Hayward - for value - and re-balance the roster, I'll re-evaluate, and admit i was wrong. I feel like it's probably selling low, but we'll see. I think Gordon can have a bounce back year and don't want to dump him, but a trade with him is one of the few avenues left to impact the roster significantly.

[greenpierce]

I think Hayward will be back this year. While he’ll probably still be in pain from time to time after playing, I think he can be confident going forward.

[SLCceltic]

FYI - I think Hayward is the most likely to be moved still, heard a rumour of it still happening but I honestly have no idea what it would be for.

Even with brad and his relationship? U think Stevens would co-sign that? and if not would danny even consider it?

Yep, if it brings us closer to Banner 18 they’d convince him it’s the right move.

I just don't see any scenario in which we trade away Hayward ...the optics alone would kill us. It would have to be for a run of Banners 18-20
Just dont see it happening ...this place was dam FA wasteland forever and then in past 3seasons we sign 3 all star FAs

GH chose to leave the team that drafted him to play for us !

...maybe if Gordon genuinely needed some kind of fresh start he could be moved, but nothing is indicating that this is the case currently

[Ernest]

Even with brad and his relationship? U think Stevens would co-sign that? and if not would danny even consider it?

Yep, if it brings us closer to Banner 18 they’d convince him it’s the right move.

I just don't see any scenario in which we trade away Hayward ...the optics alone would kill us. It would have to be for a run of Banners 18-20
Just dont see it happening ...this place was dam FA wasteland forever and then in past 3seasons we sign 3 all star FAs

Any current trade of GH is selling our boy, who chose to leave the team that drafted him to play for us, at an ALL TIME LOW

It’s a business.

[SLCceltic]

Yep, if it brings us closer to Banner 18 they’d convince him it’s the right move.

I just don't see any scenario in which we trade away Hayward ...the optics alone would kill us. It would have to be for a run of Banners 18-20
Just dont see it happening ...this place was dam FA wasteland forever and then in past 3seasons we sign 3 all star FAs

Any current trade of GH is selling our boy low

It’s a business.

Reputation & networking big part of business ...

[Andrew McCeltic]

I just don't see any scenario in which we trade away Hayward ...the optics alone would kill us. It would have to be for a run of Banners 18-20
Just dont see it happening ...this place was dam FA wasteland forever and then in past 3seasons we sign 3 all star FAs

Any current trade of GH is selling our boy low

It’s a business.

Reputation & networking big part of business ...

A. Obviously the plan he signed on for as a free agent didn't work out - Kyrie/Hayward/Horford could have made a title run. Kyrie and Horford are gone now, and Gordon has effectively lost two years to injury. It could be great to have him stay, but we have to think about adapting to changed circumstances, and our cap management, and there are deals that could be better for the franchise. Sad, but don't think there would be hard feelings.

B. If we send him to Houston to play with Chris Paul and Harden on a 50+ win D'Antoni team, that's doing right by him.. if he comes all the way back, he can opt out next July and get one more major max contract..

[Andrew McCeltic]

Or Eric Gordon/picks for Justise Winslow

Kemba
Jaylen
Winslow
Tatum
Capela?

Winslow sucks!

Wrong and shallow, nice!

Winslow is an elite defender, strong as hell, can guard 1 through 4, can play 1 through 4, he's peak MKG with a corner 3 and some plus passing ability. He can be a third-tier offensive player, he's not selfish - but he has room to improve as a scorer, he's only 23, he fits the core/timeline..

[Celtics_Champs]

Kyrie and Durant were both playing for playoff contenders when they decided halfway through the season they would leave.

Kawahi Leonard asked Paul George to demand a trade from a playoff team he liked to go play in sunshine.

I could care less about loyalty. It doesn’t exist anymore, on both sides.

I don’t want to trade Gordo but if a better deal comes about, you do it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Kyrie and Durant were both playing for playoff contenders when they decided halfway through the season they would leave.

Kawahi Leonard asked Paul George to demand a trade from a playoff team he liked to go play in sunshine.

I could care less about loyalty. It doesn’t exist anymore, on both sides.

I don’t want to trade Gordo but if a better deal comes about, you do it.

But Brad is sensitive, if we break his heart he could go back to Butler.

[FlatearthZorro]

Hell no to trading Gordon to a division rival, or for nothing for that matter. Just keep him and hope for the best. We have a **** at making the Finals.

[Bohemian]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Think I would rather gamble on Hayward returning to form rather than move him for Capela. Team is dangerously low on playmaking as is. Losing Horford really hurt in that aspect as well. Hayward, Kemba and Smart are really all they have for the moment

FYI - I think Hayward is the most likely to be moved still, heard a rumour of it still happening but I honestly have no idea what it would be for.

Could you specify on that? I really doubt we move him. As I have said several times, I firmly believe this is Gordon´s year and he is going to return to his level. In any case, even if he is at his 80% he helps the team more than Westbrook and he will opt out of his deal in which case we can sign him to a much more friendly deal next summer. Please Danny, don´t deal Hayward.

[ParticleMan]

who cares about optics or brad's feelings. wtf. this is the boston celtics, not keeping up with the kardashians. ainge should do what's best for the franchise. absolutely nobody would begrudge him for that.

there are many other reasons not to trade GH, mostly because he is the one guy on the team for whom sharing the ball is in his hoops dna. i'm afraid we get too iso selfish if we trade him for someone like capela. also not sure capela is good enough value in return if hayward returns to form.

that said, it would definitely balance the roster. i definitely think kanter and capela could play together. in fact that's rather optimal, since capela though he is not a great defender can certainly do better than kanter. kanter is a usage guy, while capela is a loose ball guy. we would murder teams on the offensive glass. and it would free up kemba and tatum to be the primary scorers, so better defined roles.

i think ainge has learned his lesson about 5-wing positionless basketball. guys have to have roles that play to their strengths, and they have to not all be similar players. you need quality dirt dog guys just as much as all-stars.