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Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants)

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#361 » by canman1971 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:28 pm

exculpatory wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
exculpatory wrote:Andy, SD, BT, Fencer & the thoughtful, insightful & responsible amongst us:
Wanna see something that blew MY mind which links pulmonology & endocrinology in an attempt to explain often lethal Covid-induced lung disease.
I have read this article 10 times during the last 6 months & still am having a problem grasping all of it.

From the 3/2021 issue of my primary journal - the JCEM (The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism):
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/106/3/622/6009077

ME: ‘Excessive mineralocorticoid receptor activation by cortisol’ in the lungs may be a critical component of a pathophysiologic cascade which results in COVID-related ARDS & thrombotic coagulopathy. It lays the groundwork for evaluating a new & UNiQUE therapeutic intervention (dexamethasone PLUS an aldosterone receptor antagonist).

EXCERPTED FROM THE PUBLICATION:
“The loss of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is used by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) virus to get into endothelial and type II alveolar cells, plays a major role in the development of the complications of the infection, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and clotting abnormalities.
The loss of the ACE2 receptor results in high levels of angiotensin II, which stimulate nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP) oxidase to produce reactive oxygen species (ROS). This removes a key protective mechanism for the pulmonary mineralocorticoid receptor (MR), which now can be activated by cortisol and is no longer aldosterone selective.
Activation of the MR releases adenosine 5′-triphosphate (ATP) from the cells. This then has a paracrine effect on purinergic receptors resulting in calcium entry into the cells.
Increased intracellular calcium results in exocytosis of Weibel-Palade bodies (WPBs) from the cells. These contain the von Willebrand factor (VWF), which spreads like a spiderweb, attracts platelets, and results in microthrombi. The bodies also contain angiopoietin-2, which markedly increases capillary permeability and hence pulmonary edema.
MR blockade with spironolactone has been shown in vitro to block exocytosis of WPBs.
This paper suggests that, on the basis of these hypotheses, there should be trials of dexamethasone to suppress cortisol secretion together with an MR antagonist such as spironolactone or eplerenone.”

ME: FYI, there is precedence for cortisol ‘taking over’ the MR from aldosterone. There is an unusual hereditary syndrome called SAME (syndrome of apparent mineralocorticoid excess) (consequent to the genetic absence of the 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase [HSD] type 2 enzyme - which normally deactivates/converts cortisol to cortisone in the kidney) wherein excessive renal cortisol excessively stimulates the MR resulting in hypertension & hypokalemia (mimicking primary hyperaldosteronism).

The intricacy & nuance literally blows my mind. LOL.


I'm sticking with the excerpt and not even attempting the full article as I just don't have the lexicon to get anything more than a basic understanding. Covid - potential cascading failure - understanding the cascade - new intervention to stop the cascade possible is what I am getting, and all I can say is I'm grateful these people exist and are doing this work.


Thank you for reading what you read.

You got the gist of it.

There is a very complex bad ass cascade of events which leads to Covid respiratory failure & kills many people.

If you can block 1 or more components of the cascade, maybe you can block the entire cascade & the awful end result.

The part that obviously intrigues me the most is the endocrine components of the cascade - if you can decrease the excess cortisol with decadron and simultaneously interfere with the binding of cortisol to a receptor it does not typically utilize (the mineralocorticoid receptor - which is normally predominantly used by a different adrenal gland hormone called aldosterone), maybe you can prevent the entire cascade from happening - so that the lungs do not fill up with fluid & clotted blood vessels.

I understand that many won't understand the "doctor" lingo, but what I don't understand is people don't understand the humanity lingo. Too many selfish, "I know everything", "It's a free country" people. It's really sad.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#362 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:32 pm

Doc I’ve heard the cascade thing before - is that a fairly advanced precise biological account of disease process? Decoding the genome, mapping pathways, now being able to catalog and model potentially the entire proteome.. are we dipping a toe in the ocean or making serious progress?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#363 » by exculpatory » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:51 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Doc I’ve heard the cascade thing before - is that a fairly advanced precise biological account of disease process? Decoding the genome, mapping pathways, now being able to catalog and model potentially the entire proteome.. are we dipping a toe in the ocean or making serious progress?


You can call me Rob.

There are many cascades resulting in many different diseases.
Some of these cascades involve actual substances such as hormones or cytokines or whatever.
Some involve the genome which codes for these substances.
Some cascades are a good thing.
Interrupting a pathophysiologic cascade once the components of the cascade have been discerned is being explored for many diseases.
The progress so far is highly variable - disease-dependent.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#364 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:42 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#365 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:21 am

The Rolling Stone story on NBA player vaccine resistance is depressing.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/ [Correct link edited in]

tl;dr:

-- Kyrie is a selfish idiot.
-- His posse strongly supports that.
-- Multiple Celtics are unvaccinated.
-- Enes strongly disagrees with that.
-- So does Grant, but even so he represented the Celtic branch of the idiot caucus' views to the Players Association.
-- The NBA has basically caved to the idiot caucus ...
-- ... but is hoping that city governments will do their work for them.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#366 » by Stan34 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:17 am

Someone knows who are the celtic's players not vaccinated?

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#367 » by NotAKnicksFan » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:41 am

Curious which vaccine did you guys get?

I work at Pfizer HQ in midtown manhattan , so i got pfizer, i think its the best one.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#368 » by Green89 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:42 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:The Rolling Stone story on NBA player vaccine resistance is depressing.

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/09/dont-look-up-clip-netflix-jennifer-lawrence-leonardo-dicaprio-1234667017/

tl;dr:

-- Kyrie is a selfish idiot.
-- His posse strongly supports that.
-- Multiple Celtics are unvaccinated.
-- Enes strongly disagrees with that.
-- So does Grant, but even so he represented the Celtic branch of the idiot caucus' views to the Players Association.
-- The NBA has basically caved to the idiot caucus ...
-- ... but is hoping that city governments will do their work for them.


Who knows with Kyrie, but I'm not going to discount the fact that the players holding out are not anti-vaxxers but anti-mandate. That RS article is terrible, in that all it does is throw out assumptions, heavily leaning toward the reasoning being the players are skeptical of the vaccine, but without solid proof of that. Even mentioning how Kyrie followed some conspiracy theorist on Instagram. Following someone on Instagram does not interpret as we immediately now know someone's reason for a particular topic. RS should get better reporters, but it's honestly one of a trend of atrocious media reporting on both sides of the vaccine debate.

Oh, and that link is about Leo and J.lawrence, not Rolling Stone, but I still found it.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#369 » by Parliament10 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:36 pm

NotAKnicksFan wrote:Curious which vaccine did you guys get?

I work at Pfizer HQ in midtown manhattan , so i got pfizer, i think its the best one.

When I got it, the Moderna one seemed to have a slight edge.

But, the following, is from a recent article, in the New York Times.:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/22/health/covid-moderna-pfizer-vaccines.html
A series of studies found that the Moderna vaccine seemed to be more protective as the months passed than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#370 » by Parliament10 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:39 pm

Stan34 wrote:Someone knows who are the celtic's players not vaccinated?

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We'll know soon enough. They won't be able to play with the team.
IDK if they will even be able to Practice with the team.

Looks like this is coming to a head in the NBA, pretty soon.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#371 » by Parliament10 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:54 pm

Green89 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:The Rolling Stone story on NBA player vaccine resistance is depressing.

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/09/dont-look-up-clip-netflix-jennifer-lawrence-leonardo-dicaprio-1234667017/

tl;dr:

-- Kyrie is a selfish idiot.
-- His posse strongly supports that.
-- Multiple Celtics are unvaccinated.
-- Enes strongly disagrees with that.
-- So does Grant, but even so he represented the Celtic branch of the idiot caucus' views to the Players Association.
-- The NBA has basically caved to the idiot caucus ...
-- ... but is hoping that city governments will do their work for them.


Who knows with Kyrie, but I'm not going to discount the fact that the players holding out are not anti-vaxxers but anti-mandate. That RS article is terrible, in that all it does is throw out assumptions, heavily leaning toward the reasoning being the players are skeptical of the vaccine, but without solid proof of that. Even mentioning how Kyrie followed some conspiracy theorist on Instagram. Following someone on Instagram does not interpret as we immediately now know someone's reason for a particular topic. RS should get better reporters, but it's honestly one of a trend of atrocious media reporting on both sides of the vaccine debate.

Oh, and that link is about Leo and J.lawrence, not Rolling Stone, but I still found it.

For the most part, any current article is going to be more guesswork than actual bona-fide evidence.
As time goes on though, more will be revealed.

It's a business. And it directly affects the public. I don't think that antivaxxer NBA professionals can actually win.
They don't have to be Vaccinated. = But, they don't have a right to to infect other people, either.

Just don't play.
Let your career wither, until the Pandemic is over. Forfeit all of that money, too.

Let's see how long that lasts . . .
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Nothing is given."

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#372 » by bisme37 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:14 pm

Real bummer that we have guys on our team who are not vaccinated. It just seems so basic.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#373 » by SuperDeluxe » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:28 pm

bisme37 wrote:Real bummer that we have guys on our team who are not vaccinated. It just seems so basic.

I have a hunch there are still guys on this roster who think Kyrie Irving is a "thought leader." I sincerely hope that a guy like Tatum, who has already had covid, is smart enough to get the shot.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#374 » by bisme37 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:01 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
bisme37 wrote:Real bummer that we have guys on our team who are not vaccinated. It just seems so basic.

I have a hunch there are still guys on this roster who think Kyrie Irving is a "thought leader." I sincerely hope that a guy like Tatum, who has already had covid, is smart enough to get the shot.


I don't want to entertain the idea that some of our guys aren't vaccinated because of Irving. It gives me a headache. But yes I agree my son JT better be vaccinated or I'm giving him an old fashioned spanking after school lol.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#375 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:53 pm

Sorry about the bad Rolling Stone link. This should be the correct one.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

I have no idea who the unvaccinated Cs are, except to the extent the article's interviews made clear that Enes and Grant aren't among them. I'd hope it's guys who already had the disease, because they at least have an excuse for their position.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#376 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:14 pm

I can't believe anyone would want to get a swab up his nose day after day after day instead of a couple of injections, and then it's over.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#377 » by NotAKnicksFan » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:46 pm

I seem Enes Kanter last week practicing in the summit with chris brickley

At my office across the street i have a clear view of the summit basketball court?,Among other nba players, jimmy butler was there a few weeks ago and russel Westbrook 2 weeks ago, kevin love is always there
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#378 » by NotAKnicksFan » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:49 pm

Video i took of kanter last week

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#379 » by exculpatory » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:19 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
bisme37 wrote:Real bummer that we have guys on our team who are not vaccinated. It just seems so basic.

I have a hunch there are still guys on this roster who think Kyrie Irving is a "thought leader." I sincerely hope that a guy like Tatum, who has already had covid, is smart enough to get the shot.


I will be so so so disappointed if JT is getting his medical advice from a **** flat earth douche bag with the brain of a pea & the maturity of a 2 year old.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Delta Variant) 

Post#380 » by exculpatory » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:26 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:Sorry about the bad Rolling Stone link. This should be the correct one.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

I have no idea who the unvaccinated Cs are, except to the extent the article's interviews made clear that Enes and Grant aren't among them. I'd hope it's guys who already had the disease, because they at least have an excuse for their position.


A minimal excuse.

The previously infected do indeed significantly benefit from the vaccines.
I have posted the supporting citations at least 3 times.
And the CDC recommends it.
Albeit, they are in a better place than the non-previously infected unvaccinated dip shuts.
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