Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 12 is my favorite thread. Out of a dozen...

[cheezone]

Right now, Tatum is on top of the Boston sports roost,
but there seems to be a lot of chatter about the Red Sox
signing Ohtani. They definitely should ink him, they need a supreme lifeline
and he's the best in the business,
though it will dethrone Jayson as the Number One Boston athlete.

It all speaks to how quickly things can change in sports, it's very dynamic,
this ebb and flow, and highlights the laughable nature of 6 year windows.
As so many have noted, it's just a one year window, especially with the number
of impact free agents who could be available after the season and the possibility
that they may very well be inclined to deal Brown with both both Holiday and White
extended.

Seriously I can’t name you one player on the red Sox stop watching baseball after the Pedro Martinez days

So I don’t know what your talking about and Tatum is the biggest Sports star in Boston in my eyes

I care and know about baseball about as much as you do.

But even I know that Ohtani is the first baseball player in recorded history to be both arguably the top pitcher and arguably the top hitter AT THE SAME TIME. (Babe Ruth didn't do that.)

At least, that's true the years he isn't too injured.

Still never heard of him, it’s possible they mentioned him on nba radio or my reggaeton stations. Guess I wasn’t paying attention Tatum is still the biggest star in Boston to me

[celtxman]

Under the old CBA you could take an extra $100K over the TPE value? Does that still apply?

Otto Porter Jr. would fit into the Grant TPE if so. Old, injury prone. I get it. But there's a reason I'm suggesting him as someone who'd be available for free. PF might be our lightest position in terms of guys who can play there, if you assume Horford and Porzingis will each spend most of their time at the 5 even when both are active. It's just Tatum and Brissett and even Brissett is undersized there.

Also, for the more future transaction minded folks, OPJ and Pritchard would be a nice little expiring salary package at the deadline if there's something available.

Yeah. if we do use the Grant TPE, OPJ is an option that could make some sense in terms of a) seems fairly realistic that Toronto would may be be open to moving him, without asking for much in return and b) could be a good fit on our roster, could add some value to our bench.

It's certainly something that Brad may be exploring. And it helps that OPJ has won a ring, as a key player for the warriors when they won the 2022 title.

Obviously, the major question is how healthy is OPJ at this point and how much gas (if any) does he have left in the tank? He was already an injury prone guy, even before last season. Then last season he was only able to play in 8 games, due to a hamstring injury early in the season and then season ending foot surgery after that.

Also, keep in mind that Porzingis and Al will play together quite a bit, so one of them would be at the 4. We can also play double bigs with KP or Al out there alongside either Gabriel, Kornet or Queta. Or we can go single big with either tatum, Brissett or Stevens at the 4. We could even play JB, Hauser or Walsh at the 4. So plenty of options with the current roster..

Lastly, when I think about OPJ (solid veteran player, could probably help our team off the bench if healthy but missed most of last season to injury, is 30 or older) that sounds like someone I might consider signing to a veteran's minimum contract. Not sure about trading away valuable assets, going deeper into the tax and paying over $6 mil a year for that type of player. That part in parenthesis also fits Javonte Green, who passed on in free agency to sign a bunch of guys who are younger and healthier.

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

[Gant]

^ Comparing last season to this one, three "big" men are now elsewhere: Rob Williams, Griffin, and Grant Williams. While two have joined the team: Porzingis and Gabriel.

Their total minutes numbers from last year:

G Williams, 2045
R Williams, 824
Griffin, 569
total: 3438

Porzingis, 2120
Gabriel, 1024
total: 3144

That's a 295 minute deficit to make up. But wait, Grant Williams played most of his time at power forward, as did Oshae Brissett.

Brissett played 1083 minutes last year. Add a portion of that to the incoming "big" man total, and the minutes, depending on performance and health, are potentially there. Tatum could also PF a little more.


Other big men from last year :

Horford, 1922 (which will probably come down, as he played 30 minutes a game)
Kornet, 804


Brad Stevens said on media day that the next step is to see what they have. Another big man move is very likely if things don't look right.

[Scarletfire81]

I would think, after the Bucks got Lillard, you would be more critical, if you didn't make these moves...

Read on Twitter

People need to stop acting like Robert Williams is prime Shaq. He’s a role player that was constantly hurt, Jrue is an all star, you make that trade every time.

We all loved Timelord & he did contribute but let’s not go too far.

[Hal14]

Under the old CBA you could take an extra $100K over the TPE value? Does that still apply?

Otto Porter Jr. would fit into the Grant TPE if so. Old, injury prone. I get it. But there's a reason I'm suggesting him as someone who'd be available for free. PF might be our lightest position in terms of guys who can play there, if you assume Horford and Porzingis will each spend most of their time at the 5 even when both are active. It's just Tatum and Brissett and even Brissett is undersized there.

Also, for the more future transaction minded folks, OPJ and Pritchard would be a nice little expiring salary package at the deadline if there's something available.

Yeah. if we do use the Grant TPE, OPJ is an option that could make some sense in terms of a) seems fairly realistic that Toronto would may be be open to moving him, without asking for much in return and b) could be a good fit on our roster, could add some value to our bench.

It's certainly something that Brad may be exploring. And it helps that OPJ has won a ring, as a key player for the warriors when they won the 2022 title.

Obviously, the major question is how healthy is OPJ at this point and how much gas (if any) does he have left in the tank? He was already an injury prone guy, even before last season. Then last season he was only able to play in 8 games, due to a hamstring injury early in the season and then season ending foot surgery after that.

Also, keep in mind that Porzingis and Al will play together quite a bit, so one of them would be at the 4. We can also play double bigs with KP or Al out there alongside either Gabriel, Kornet or Queta. Or we can go single big with either tatum, Brissett or Stevens at the 4. We could even play JB, Hauser or Walsh at the 4. So plenty of options with the current roster..

Lastly, when I think about OPJ (solid veteran player, could probably help our team off the bench if healthy but missed most of last season to injury, is 30 or older) that sounds like someone I might consider signing to a veteran's minimum contract. Not sure about trading away valuable assets, going deeper into the tax and paying over $6 mil a year for that type of player. That part in parenthesis also fits Javonte Green, who passed on in free agency to sign a bunch of guys who are younger and healthier.

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

Don't forget about Gabriel.

Al, KP, Gabriel, Kornet and Queta can play the 5.

KP, Al, Tatum, Brissett and Stevens can play the 4 (and maybe even Gabriel, Hauser, JB and Walsh).

One guy who could play the 4 or the 5..and could maybe be available via trade and fits in the TPE is Precious Achiuwa..perhaps we give this roster a couple of months at least..and then make a move for someone like him, if it seems like another big is needed.

[celtxman]

Yeah. if we do use the Grant TPE, OPJ is an option that could make some sense in terms of a) seems fairly realistic that Toronto would may be be open to moving him, without asking for much in return and b) could be a good fit on our roster, could add some value to our bench.

It's certainly something that Brad may be exploring. And it helps that OPJ has won a ring, as a key player for the warriors when they won the 2022 title.

Obviously, the major question is how healthy is OPJ at this point and how much gas (if any) does he have left in the tank? He was already an injury prone guy, even before last season. Then last season he was only able to play in 8 games, due to a hamstring injury early in the season and then season ending foot surgery after that.

Also, keep in mind that Porzingis and Al will play together quite a bit, so one of them would be at the 4. We can also play double bigs with KP or Al out there alongside either Gabriel, Kornet or Queta. Or we can go single big with either tatum, Brissett or Stevens at the 4. We could even play JB, Hauser or Walsh at the 4. So plenty of options with the current roster..

Lastly, when I think about OPJ (solid veteran player, could probably help our team off the bench if healthy but missed most of last season to injury, is 30 or older) that sounds like someone I might consider signing to a veteran's minimum contract. Not sure about trading away valuable assets, going deeper into the tax and paying over $6 mil a year for that type of player. That part in parenthesis also fits Javonte Green, who passed on in free agency to sign a bunch of guys who are younger and healthier.

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

Don't forget about Gabriel.

Al, KP, Gabriel, Kornet and Queta can play the 5.

KP, Al, Tatum, Brissett and Stevens can play the 4 (and maybe even Gabriel, Hauser, JB and Walsh).

One guy who could play the 4 or the 5..and could maybe be available via trade and fits in the TPE is Precious Achiuwa..perhaps we give this roster a couple of months at least..and then make a move for someone like him, if it seems like another big is needed.

Yes I forgot Gabriel and I'm hoping between Queta and Gabriel we have something. In the meantime if KP misses" only 15" games and Horford is playing a little less than last year we could have issues. I'm good with what the Celtics are starting with, but their options are limited to fix it and that's where the TPE might come in. I think that with Brissett, Stevens and hopefully growth with Hauser, they may be OK at wing

[MeanGeraldGreen]

If I see any more Rob slander, someone is getting a stern talking to.

[sam_I_am]

Under the old CBA you could take an extra $100K over the TPE value? Does that still apply?

Otto Porter Jr. would fit into the Grant TPE if so. Old, injury prone. I get it. But there's a reason I'm suggesting him as someone who'd be available for free. PF might be our lightest position in terms of guys who can play there, if you assume Horford and Porzingis will each spend most of their time at the 5 even when both are active. It's just Tatum and Brissett and even Brissett is undersized there.

Also, for the more future transaction minded folks, OPJ and Pritchard would be a nice little expiring salary package at the deadline if there's something available.

Yeah. if we do use the Grant TPE, OPJ is an option that could make some sense in terms of a) seems fairly realistic that Toronto would may be be open to moving him, without asking for much in return and b) could be a good fit on our roster, could add some value to our bench.

It's certainly something that Brad may be exploring. And it helps that OPJ has won a ring, as a key player for the warriors when they won the 2022 title.

Obviously, the major question is how healthy is OPJ at this point and how much gas (if any) does he have left in the tank? He was already an injury prone guy, even before last season. Then last season he was only able to play in 8 games, due to a hamstring injury early in the season and then season ending foot surgery after that.

Also, keep in mind that Porzingis and Al will play together quite a bit, so one of them would be at the 4. We can also play double bigs with KP or Al out there alongside either Gabriel, Kornet or Queta. Or we can go single big with either tatum, Brissett or Stevens at the 4. We could even play JB, Hauser or Walsh at the 4. So plenty of options with the current roster..

Lastly, when I think about OPJ (solid veteran player, could probably help our team off the bench if healthy but missed most of last season to injury, is 30 or older) that sounds like someone I might consider signing to a veteran's minimum contract. Not sure about trading away valuable assets, going deeper into the tax and paying over $6 mil a year for that type of player. That part in parenthesis also fits Javonte Green, who passed on in free agency to sign a bunch of guys who are younger and healthier.

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

I bet Porzingas could help fill in some of those ‘lost’ minutes from Rob/Grant/Blake.

My point is that we are way better off at big this year with KP/Horf and the bench than we were last year with Horf/part-time lord/Grant/Blake.

[chakdaddy]

Use the early season to see if they offer anything. I'd not cut bait like Vonleh

[celtxman]

Yeah. if we do use the Grant TPE, OPJ is an option that could make some sense in terms of a) seems fairly realistic that Toronto would may be be open to moving him, without asking for much in return and b) could be a good fit on our roster, could add some value to our bench.

It's certainly something that Brad may be exploring. And it helps that OPJ has won a ring, as a key player for the warriors when they won the 2022 title.

Obviously, the major question is how healthy is OPJ at this point and how much gas (if any) does he have left in the tank? He was already an injury prone guy, even before last season. Then last season he was only able to play in 8 games, due to a hamstring injury early in the season and then season ending foot surgery after that.

Also, keep in mind that Porzingis and Al will play together quite a bit, so one of them would be at the 4. We can also play double bigs with KP or Al out there alongside either Gabriel, Kornet or Queta. Or we can go single big with either tatum, Brissett or Stevens at the 4. We could even play JB, Hauser or Walsh at the 4. So plenty of options with the current roster..

Lastly, when I think about OPJ (solid veteran player, could probably help our team off the bench if healthy but missed most of last season to injury, is 30 or older) that sounds like someone I might consider signing to a veteran's minimum contract. Not sure about trading away valuable assets, going deeper into the tax and paying over $6 mil a year for that type of player. That part in parenthesis also fits Javonte Green, who passed on in free agency to sign a bunch of guys who are younger and healthier.

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

I bet Porzingas could help fill in some of those ‘lost’ minutes from Rob/Grant/Blake.

My point is that we are way better off at big this year with KP/Horf and the bench than we were last year with Horf/part-time lord/Grant/Blake.

Yes the glass might be 1/2 full and Timelord played 1/2 the games KP did last season. But we're not yet sure what we have in KP. As I said I feel good about starting the season, and I think they are more championship ready than last year. But I also feel they have less margin for error/injury

[Fencer reregistered]

If I see any more Rob slander, someone is getting a stern talking to.

Perhaps you'll descend on the Trades & Transactions board in an avenging fury.

[chrisab123]

Seriously I can’t name you one player on the red Sox stop watching baseball after the Pedro Martinez days

So I don’t know what your talking about and Tatum is the biggest Sports star in Boston in my eyes

I care and know about baseball about as much as you do.

But even I know that Ohtani is the first baseball player in recorded history to be both arguably the top pitcher and arguably the top hitter AT THE SAME TIME. (Babe Ruth didn't do that.)

At least, that's true the years he isn't too injured.

Still never heard of him, it’s possible they mentioned him on nba radio or my reggaeton stations. Guess I wasn’t paying attention Tatum is still the biggest star in Boston to me

Right now. But if the Sox do sign Ohtani he's hands down the biggest star. He's probably top 10 in all of sports considering the amount of press he gets in Japan. Put him in a real market and you're talking Messi levels of popularity.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think the use of this TPE is very possible, but it doesn't feel like the Celtics are finished with centers. I hope that Queta and Kornet can give meaningful minutes, but in addition to losing Timelord we also lost minutes from Grant Williams and even Blake. It feels like there has to have someone who can eat up minutes in certain matches as the season wears on and that might be where the TPE comes in.

I bet Porzingas could help fill in some of those ‘lost’ minutes from Rob/Grant/Blake.

My point is that we are way better off at big this year with KP/Horf and the bench than we were last year with Horf/part-time lord/Grant/Blake.

Yes the glass might be 1/2 full and Timelord played 1/2 the games KP did last season. But we're not yet sure what we have in KP. As I said I feel good about starting the season, and I think they are more championship ready than last year. But I also feel they have less margin for error/injury

It's losing Grant that hurts. Porzingis is a comparable injury gamble to Rob, with more talent. And Jrue is an upgrade over Smart and Brogdon. We can afford the swaps at the point because Pritchard can contribute as a second-third-string guard and the defense can cover for him. But we don't have a playoff caliber third big, or a reliably durable one.

[Curmudgeon]

They have to hope that one of their young bigs e.g. Queta or Gabriel, can be an energy guy off the bench and give them at least some of what they got from the Timelord.

[BK_2020]

They have to hope that one of their young bigs e.g. Queta or Gabriel, can be an energy guy off the bench and give them at least some of what they got from the Timelord.

Not really. They replaced Timelord and Grant with an All-Star calibre big who is taller than the two of them combined. Queta and Gabriel contributing would be nice but our front court has gotten better and deeper than last season, not worse.

[DarkAzcura]

I care and know about baseball about as much as you do.

But even I know that Ohtani is the first baseball player in recorded history to be both arguably the top pitcher and arguably the top hitter AT THE SAME TIME. (Babe Ruth didn't do that.)

At least, that's true the years he isn't too injured.

Still never heard of him, it’s possible they mentioned him on nba radio or my reggaeton stations. Guess I wasn’t paying attention Tatum is still the biggest star in Boston to me

Right now. But if the Sox do sign Ohtani he's hands down the biggest star. He's probably top 10 in all of sports considering the amount of press he gets in Japan. Put him in a real market and you're talking Messi levels of popularity.

Ohtani would be huge, but no one cares about baseball this much, especially to have Messi spoken about in the same breath.

Basketball stars are much bigger than baseball stars. It just is.

[chrisab123]

Still never heard of him, it’s possible they mentioned him on nba radio or my reggaeton stations. Guess I wasn’t paying attention Tatum is still the biggest star in Boston to me

Right now. But if the Sox do sign Ohtani he's hands down the biggest star. He's probably top 10 in all of sports considering the amount of press he gets in Japan. Put him in a real market and you're talking Messi levels of popularity.

Ohtani would be huge, but no one cares about baseball this much, especially to have Messi spoken about in the same breath.

Basketball stars are much bigger than baseball stars. It just is.

Disagree on that from the perspective that the Asian market is very real. Ichiro was routinely up there. Asia drives sales especially with jerseys.

[DarkAzcura]

Right now. But if the Sox do sign Ohtani he's hands down the biggest star. He's probably top 10 in all of sports considering the amount of press he gets in Japan. Put him in a real market and you're talking Messi levels of popularity.

Ohtani would be huge, but no one cares about baseball this much, especially to have Messi spoken about in the same breath.

Basketball stars are much bigger than baseball stars. It just is.

Disagree on that from the perspective that the Asian market is very real. Ichiro was routinely up there. Asia drives sales especially with jerseys.

I know, I took that into account. Japan is big and all, but it’s not that huge of a market to bring it to soccer discussions. Soccer is the whole world. Basketball has more market awareness in Europe and China which is bigger than Japan as well.

[MeanGeraldGreen]

Fun to share a baseball nugget for once, but the stuff with the Red Sox and Ohtani is extremely real.

10/550 has been discussed, within the organization.

[Hal14]

I bet Porzingas could help fill in some of those ‘lost’ minutes from Rob/Grant/Blake.

My point is that we are way better off at big this year with KP/Horf and the bench than we were last year with Horf/part-time lord/Grant/Blake.

Yes the glass might be 1/2 full and Timelord played 1/2 the games KP did last season. But we're not yet sure what we have in KP. As I said I feel good about starting the season, and I think they are more championship ready than last year. But I also feel they have less margin for error/injury

It's losing Grant that hurts. Porzingis is a comparable injury gamble to Rob, with more talent. And Jrue is an upgrade over Smart and Brogdon. We can afford the swaps at the point because Pritchard can contribute as a second-third-string guard and the defense can cover for him. But we don't have a playoff caliber third big, or a reliably durable one.

1) You don't need to have 3 playoff caliber bigs.

The Nuggets just won the title with 1 big in their rotation (maybe 2 if you consider Gordon a big). The warriors won the 2022 title with 2 (maybe 1 if you consider Draymond to be a forward instead of a big).

We just lost to a Heat team with basically 1 playoff caliber big (unless you count the corpse of Kevin Love or Cody Zeller (Kornet is probably just as good as him) to be a playoff caliber big.

The sixers only had 2 (and Paul Reed didn't really make that much impact for them so it's basically just 1..Embiid)

I could go on, but the teams that make deep playoff runs over the last 3 years or so, they typically have 1 or 2 playoff caliber bigs.

Having 3 is a luxury. We had 3 before obviously (KP, Rob, Al) but we chose to sacrifice that luxury in order to add a fourth all-star to our team (Jrue).

And Rob is never healthy come playoff time anyways, so we basically had 2 playoff caliber bigs before..

2) Grant isn't that good. He hurt our team more than he helped us last season. I'm not sure I really consider him to be a "big" anyways. I'm fine with Hauser replacing Grant in the rotation. Plus we have Stevens and Brissett for additional depth at the 4 spot to help replace Grant.