Official Draft Thread 2015-16

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, if you evaluate him as a 4, is he not just doing the same exact thing that Blake Griffin did with a bit less physicality and better passing/playmaking?

Yeah, that's exactly what type of player Simmons will be, a top 12 NBA player, but not generational talent that gets teams with handful of legit NBA players into Finals like LeBron did in 2007/2015. Can he win multiple titles as the best player on his team? Absolutely, but he'll need a good surrounding cast. The difference between LeBron and Griffin/Melo is big.
Ed and Kevin probably went too far saying he won't be a star, because he will. But he doesn't appear to be single-handedly-winning-50+-games type of player that some many people want/expect him to be.

I think all of us would be happy with a top 12 NBA player. That's a true star in my book.

[ddb]

for all the Simmons skeptics, they are just that....skeptics. People will nitpick at Simmons all year long, but at the end of the day he's the clear cut #1 pick in this draft, and potentially a generational type of talent.

[DarkAzcura]

Yeah, if you evaluate him as a 4, is he not just doing the same exact thing that Blake Griffin did with a bit less physicality and better passing/playmaking?

Yeah, that's exactly what type of player Simmons will be, a top 12 NBA player, but not generational talent that gets teams with handful of legit NBA players into Finals like LeBron did in 2007/2015. Can he win multiple titles as the best player on his team? Absolutely, but he'll need a good surrounding cast. The difference between LeBron and Griffin/Melo is big.
Ed and Kevin probably went too far saying he won't be a star, because he will. But he doesn't appear to be single-handedly-winning-50+-games type of player that some many people want/expect him to be.

I think all of us would be happy with a top 12 NBA player. That's a true star in my book.

Yeah, I'll take that 7 days of the week, haha. He may not be an elite shooter, but he fills a lot of our holes. He can actually finish fast breaks as either the shot maker or the creator. He can literally play point guard for this team. He can rebound like a maniac. He's a good fit for this team, and if anything, all anyone talks about is how we already have a supporting cast in place. If we somehow got this kid, he would be able to slide into Turner's pseudo PG role pretty seamlessly I'd say (and then some more hopefully..).

I'd take any player with potential to be a top 20 player in the NBA at this point..

Honestly I don't know if it is because I'm looking at this team's needs too much, but I don't get why people aren't more up on the '16 draft. I've heard for months that it is really mediocre to bad, but the top 5-6 in this draft look great to me. Again, that may be because they all pretty much fit a need for us specifically, but I've honestly been more excited for the 2015 and 2016 draft than the 2014 one.

[165bows]

Simmons reminds me of Giannis w/ a little less athleticism and with a rare passing ability. He's a 1/2/3/4.

The shooting thing is a concern. He's shooting jumpshots nearly completely one handed and has no clue where the ball is going to land once it hits the rim. He has no confidence in it right now.

Do we know he can defend the four though? I mean, he'll be fine against the small ball stretch fours around but I don't think he will be good at defending the actual big men.

He'll be able to guard someone at the 2-4 spot in every game depending upon matchup.

Definitely agree on that, it's just that that is different scenario of the "we can find someone to stick you on" vs. "just take the other team's best player regardless of position and lock him up".

Obviously he is somewhere between the two extremes there.

Giannis is an interesting comp, less length as well though, with better ball handling.

Yeah, that's exactly what type of player Simmons will be, a top 12 NBA player, but not generational talent that gets teams with handful of legit NBA players into Finals like LeBron did in 2007/2015. Can he win multiple titles as the best player on his team? Absolutely, but he'll need a good surrounding cast. The difference between LeBron and Griffin/Melo is big.
Ed and Kevin probably went too far saying he won't be a star, because he will. But he doesn't appear to be single-handedly-winning-50+-games type of player that some many people want/expect him to be.

I think all of us would be happy with a top 12 NBA player. That's a true star in my book.

Yeah, I'll take that 7 days of the week, haha. He may not be an elite shooter, but he fills a lot of our holes. He can actually finish fast breaks as either the shot maker or the creator. He can literally play point guard for this team. He can rebound like a maniac. He's a good fit for this team, and if anything, all anyone talks about is how we already have a supporting cast in place. If we somehow got this kid, he would be able to slide into Turner's pseudo PG role pretty seamlessly I'd say (and then some more hopefully..).

I'd take any player with potential to be a top 20 player in the NBA at this point..

Honestly I don't know if it is because I'm looking at this team's needs too much, but I don't get why people aren't more up on the '16 draft. I've heard for months that it is really mediocre to bad, but the top 5-6 in this draft look great to me. Again, that may be because they all pretty much fit a need for us specifically, but I've honestly been more excited for the 2015 and 2016 draft than the 2014 one.

On DA's point, I read somewhere that FT% is actually the strongest predictor of future shooting ability, more so than college 3PT%. Not definitive on any one guy but supposedly that is the case in general.

And the Celtics definitely have the track record of making good use of the good-all-around player that is a weak shooter, as well as any team in the league.

[165bows]

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

He's unathletic, unsmooth, and Wake absolutely torched him on defense yesterday. He's still young, but I don't much upside there.

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

Like most of the NCAA freshmen, Thomas Bryant doesn't look like a prospect to me.

Ugh.

[Edug27]

Did someone actually compare him to RHJ?

[BfB]

I still think people are outhinking themselves when it comes to his jumpshot. He'll never be Durant or probably won't pull up for jump shots, but it's surprising to see so many editors I really respect be scared of his jumpshot. Guys with broken mechanics don't shoot 80% from the line. They are right to say not many people develop a jumper, but a large majority of those who do not ever develop a shot had broken mechanics in the first place and never shot from the FT line well (Rondo...). I'm not saying it's an automatic that he will have a decent jumper just based off of his FT%, but I do think the whole "broken jumper" should ease up a bit, imo. We'll see. His other attributes are just too good to deny..his handle really is incredible.

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"



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[darrendaye]

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

He's unathletic, unsmooth, and Wake absolutely torched him on defense yesterday. He's still young, but I don't much upside there.

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

Like most of the NCAA freshmen, Thomas Bryant doesn't look like a prospect to me.

Ugh.

Gotta watch some of him. Went off scouting reports, highlights, and stats to base my initial opinion (of course). I saw the briefest of live action when I tuned in JUST as Wake made that final driving layup against him (them). On that one play, I thought his lateral quickness was decent. My issue was he attempted the block with the right hand across his body rather than with his left which would have allowed more reach and good chance at blocking it.

[DarkAzcura]

I still think people are outhinking themselves when it comes to his jumpshot. He'll never be Durant or probably won't pull up for jump shots, but it's surprising to see so many editors I really respect be scared of his jumpshot. Guys with broken mechanics don't shoot 80% from the line. They are right to say not many people develop a jumper, but a large majority of those who do not ever develop a shot had broken mechanics in the first place and never shot from the FT line well (Rondo...). I'm not saying it's an automatic that he will have a decent jumper just based off of his FT%, but I do think the whole "broken jumper" should ease up a bit, imo. We'll see. His other attributes are just too good to deny..his handle really is incredible.

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

We could still use nice, though, haha. I like all 5 of the projected top 5 right now. Sure, none of them are likely generational or transcendent, but I think Simmons is likely the best of the lot potential wise (imo, Jaylen Brown isn't far off, though..). He has too many skills and is way too athletic not to be up there. I know you sound confident about his lack of shooting ability. He may have a lot of problems, but most of them aren't incredibly difficult fixes like the junk I saw with Rondo and Tony Allen. There's something to work with with his shot. Like some others said, no 19 year old is perfect, but Simmons honestly ain't far off from it either for a 19 year old.

When it comes to being a prospect, how much more can you reasonably expect? Which prospects came into the league with no significant questions about them? Even the best of the best prospects had significant questions about them. People questioned Lebron's shooting pretty harshly pre-draft. Durant's handle and strength. Davis apparently had no offensive game to speak of (which I always thought was silly..). The last big prospect who was nearly close to perfect at draft time was Duncan, and even then there were whispers about his "motivation," which was really just a quiet demeanor.

I'm speaking like this because I don't ever want to get to the point where I personally overthink myself so much that I question the Celtics taking a guy like Simmons (if he continues playing the way he does this season when conference play starts) if given the opportunity. All draftees have significant flaws. Even the greatest. And I struggle to believe a guy shooting ~80% from the FT line doesn't have potential to at least be a bit of a spot up threat with his jump shot. With all of his other skills and size, he just needs a jumper that keeps teams honest. I know easier said than done especially after hoping for Rondo to do it for years, but like I said, his mechanics aren't nearly as dreadful, and he'll be playing a position where the expectation for his shot will likely be lower anyway.

Rondo and Allen have probably completely altered my perception of what is broken and what is acceptable for a jump shot, lol. I'm not too picky about it anymore after having watched those two.

[bucknersrevenge]

Did someone actually compare him to RHJ?

I did. Not so much in terms of potential to clarify. More in terms of at this current moment in time he is an incredible athlete that can handle, finish, and make some plays. At Simmons size though, his length and IQ make him overall a better prospect and if he can show even reasonable ability to hit a 15-17 footer it helps a lot. And I do agree with those suggesting his ability to step into a role vacated by Evan Turner. We certainly need more athletes in our frontcourt. There's no denying that he would help.

[bucknersrevenge]

I still think people are outhinking themselves when it comes to his jumpshot. He'll never be Durant or probably won't pull up for jump shots, but it's surprising to see so many editors I really respect be scared of his jumpshot. Guys with broken mechanics don't shoot 80% from the line. They are right to say not many people develop a jumper, but a large majority of those who do not ever develop a shot had broken mechanics in the first place and never shot from the FT line well (Rondo...). I'm not saying it's an automatic that he will have a decent jumper just based off of his FT%, but I do think the whole "broken jumper" should ease up a bit, imo. We'll see. His other attributes are just too good to deny..his handle really is incredible.

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

We could still use nice, though, haha. I like all 5 of the projected top 5 right now. Sure, none of them are likely generational or transcendent, but I think Simmons is likely the best of the lot potential wise (imo, Jaylen Brown isn't far off, though..). He has too many skills and is way too athletic not to be up there. I know you sound confident about his lack of shooting ability. He may have a lot of problems, but most of them aren't incredibly difficult fixes like the junk I saw with Rondo and Tony Allen. There's something to work with with his shot. Like some others said, no 19 year old is perfect, but Simmons honestly ain't far off from it either for a 19 year old.

When it comes to being a prospect, how much more can you reasonably expect? Which prospects came into the league with no significant questions about them? Even the best of the best prospects had significant questions about them. People questioned Lebron's shooting pretty harshly pre-draft. Durant's handle and strength. Davis apparently had no offensive game to speak of (which I always thought was silly..). The last big prospect who was nearly close to perfect at draft time was Duncan, and even then there were whispers about his "motivation," which was really just a quiet demeanor.

I'm speaking like this because I don't ever want to get to the point where I personally overthink myself so much that I question the Celtics taking a guy like Simmons (if he continues playing the way he does this season when conference play starts) if given the opportunity. All draftees have significant flaws. Even the greatest. And I struggle to believe a guy shooting ~80% from the FT line doesn't have potential to at least be a bit of a spot up threat with his jump shot. With all of his other skills and size, he just needs a jumper that keeps teams honest. I know easier said than done especially after hoping for Rondo to do it for years, but like I said, his mechanics aren't nearly as dreadful, and he'll be playing a position where the expectation for his shot will likely be lower anyway.

Rondo and Allen have probably completely altered my perception of what is broken and what is acceptable for a jump shot, lol. I'm not too picky about it anymore after having watched those two.

In your defense Dark If you watch the DX video highlighting Simmons weaknesses they do address his jumpshot. They show a slo-mo of his form where the ball ends up directly over his head with his elbow out which leads to an inconsistent release. These tend to be the kinds of things players work on in pre-draft camps and offseasons after they get drafted. Rarely are they adjusted during their collegiate career. Simmons certainly does fit into Stevens position-less basketball ideology. With someone like him you could run 1-4 pick n roll and when that didn't work you could then run 4-5 pick n roll.

[Edug27]

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"

Eh. You're splitting hairs here. He doesn't need to be "transcendent". Is Westbrook transcendent? Is Blake Griffin? Neither was "transcendent" heading into the draft. It's about potential and how well you feel you can develop that player.

He's better than anyone in the draft, and has a crap load more potential than anyone on our roster. So that's why some Celtics fans are getting hyped about the chances of getting him in green.

He's not perfect. But not many elite players were prior to being drafted. There are certain skills and intangibles you look for to determine the ceiling of a player.

Everyone was on the Kevin Love train a couple summers ago and we can spend a solid week sipping coffee and discussing the flaws in his game... and 2 weeks if we did it on his draft night.

[darrendaye]

Ingram back from the grave. Still like him even coming out this year. His coming off the bench now says much more for the disarray of the Duke roster construction without a true PG and weak bigmen than it does about Ingram.

[BfB]

I still think people are outhinking themselves when it comes to his jumpshot. He'll never be Durant or probably won't pull up for jump shots, but it's surprising to see so many editors I really respect be scared of his jumpshot. Guys with broken mechanics don't shoot 80% from the line. They are right to say not many people develop a jumper, but a large majority of those who do not ever develop a shot had broken mechanics in the first place and never shot from the FT line well (Rondo...). I'm not saying it's an automatic that he will have a decent jumper just based off of his FT%, but I do think the whole "broken jumper" should ease up a bit, imo. We'll see. His other attributes are just too good to deny..his handle really is incredible.

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

We could still use nice, though, haha. I like all 5 of the projected top 5 right now. Sure, none of them are likely generational or transcendent, but I think Simmons is likely the best of the lot potential wise (imo, Jaylen Brown isn't far off, though..). He has too many skills and is way too athletic not to be up there. I know you sound confident about his lack of shooting ability. He may have a lot of problems, but most of them aren't incredibly difficult fixes like the junk I saw with Rondo and Tony Allen. There's something to work with with his shot. Like some others said, no 19 year old is perfect, but Simmons honestly ain't far off from it either for a 19 year old.

When it comes to being a prospect, how much more can you reasonably expect? Which prospects came into the league with no significant questions about them? Even the best of the best prospects had significant questions about them. People questioned Lebron's shooting pretty harshly pre-draft. Durant's handle and strength. Davis apparently had no offensive game to speak of (which I always thought was silly..). The last big prospect who was nearly close to perfect at draft time was Duncan, and even then there were whispers about his "motivation," which was really just a quiet demeanor.

I'm speaking like this because I don't ever want to get to the point where I personally overthink myself so much that I question the Celtics taking a guy like Simmons (if he continues playing the way he does this season when conference play starts) if given the opportunity. All draftees have significant flaws. Even the greatest. And I struggle to believe a guy shooting ~80% from the FT line doesn't have potential to at least be a bit of a spot up threat with his jump shot. With all of his other skills and size, he just needs a jumper that keeps teams honest. I know easier said than done especially after hoping for Rondo to do it for years, but like I said, his mechanics aren't nearly as dreadful, and he'll be playing a position where the expectation for his shot will likely be lower anyway.

Rondo and Allen have probably completely altered my perception of what is broken and what is acceptable for a jump shot, lol. I'm not too picky about it anymore after having watched those two.

It's Rondo/TA broken, its not LeBron/Griffin Broken. He is lifht years away from being competent as a shooter, which means a lot of 12/10/6/3/2 - Not the post player Josh Smith was, a worse shooter and defender.

He's an upgrade offensively to Crowder, but he's in no danger of cracking 20 ppg consistently for years, if ever, which is what this team is missing. I have no confidence in him developing that shot with about 5 significant mechanicall flaws - too many moving parts. He's the guy behind the guy.

I take Dragen Bender right now if I have the choice. 7 footer with total offensive versatility. As he gains mass he's going to be a matchup nightmare for 4's and 5's alike - best offensive ceiling among the top 5, I think.

Bender, Brown, Ingrim, Skal are the scoring threats, Simmons is the best playmaker. Would Simmons make the team better? Sure, he's like Evan Turner. But you can tell by the way he plays that he's not going to get you buckets when things bog down.

[peachbucket]

Dwayne Bacon looking like a top ten pick. Not sure about his mental makeup but he's got it all as far as a scoring wing prospect. NBA body, length, handle, explosive, and great looking shot with range.

[165bows]

^^Vanderbilt and FSU have zipped up the list of teams to watch lately.

@jzmazlish: wasn't Wade Baldwin's best game on the offensive end but I was really impressed with his D tonight, Mason couldn't get around him off bounce

@deanondraft: .@jzmazlish Baldwin looks legit. So does Damian Jones and maybe even Kornet. This Vandy team is loaded with good stuff.

Same with Purdue and maybe Mich. State.

[FakeScreenName123]

Dwayne Bacon

we could potentially get Dragon Bender, Dwayne Bacon and Diamond Stone???

is this real life?

[Slartibartfast]

He can't shoot man, thats just how it is. I've watched him shoot hundreds of jumpers. There are all kinds of problems.

He is a playmaker, but he's not a scorer at the NBA level right now.

He is also 100% a defensive liability as a 4 - not physical enough.

He's a nice player, i don't see "transcendent"



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

We could still use nice, though, haha. I like all 5 of the projected top 5 right now. Sure, none of them are likely generational or transcendent, but I think Simmons is likely the best of the lot potential wise (imo, Jaylen Brown isn't far off, though..). He has too many skills and is way too athletic not to be up there. I know you sound confident about his lack of shooting ability. He may have a lot of problems, but most of them aren't incredibly difficult fixes like the junk I saw with Rondo and Tony Allen. There's something to work with with his shot. Like some others said, no 19 year old is perfect, but Simmons honestly ain't far off from it either for a 19 year old.

When it comes to being a prospect, how much more can you reasonably expect? Which prospects came into the league with no significant questions about them? Even the best of the best prospects had significant questions about them. People questioned Lebron's shooting pretty harshly pre-draft. Durant's handle and strength. Davis apparently had no offensive game to speak of (which I always thought was silly..). The last big prospect who was nearly close to perfect at draft time was Duncan, and even then there were whispers about his "motivation," which was really just a quiet demeanor.

I'm speaking like this because I don't ever want to get to the point where I personally overthink myself so much that I question the Celtics taking a guy like Simmons (if he continues playing the way he does this season when conference play starts) if given the opportunity. All draftees have significant flaws. Even the greatest. And I struggle to believe a guy shooting ~80% from the FT line doesn't have potential to at least be a bit of a spot up threat with his jump shot. With all of his other skills and size, he just needs a jumper that keeps teams honest. I know easier said than done especially after hoping for Rondo to do it for years, but like I said, his mechanics aren't nearly as dreadful, and he'll be playing a position where the expectation for his shot will likely be lower anyway.

Rondo and Allen have probably completely altered my perception of what is broken and what is acceptable for a jump shot, lol. I'm not too picky about it anymore after having watched those two.

It's Rondo/TA broken, its not LeBron/Griffin Broken. He is lifht years away from being competent as a shooter, which means a lot of 12/10/6/3/2 - Not the post player Josh Smith was, a worse shooter and defender.

He's an upgrade offensively to Crowder, but he's in no danger of cracking 20 ppg consistently for years, if ever, which is what this team is missing. I have no confidence in him developing that shot with about 5 significant mechanicall flaws - too many moving parts. He's the guy behind the guy.

I take Dragen Bender right now if I have the choice. 7 footer with total offensive versatility. As he gains mass he's going to be a matchup nightmare for 4's and 5's alike - best offensive ceiling among the top 5, I think.

Bender, Brown, Ingrim, Skal are the scoring threats, Simmons is the best playmaker. Would Simmons make the team better? Sure, he's like Evan Turner. But you can tell by the way he plays that he's not going to get you buckets when things bog down.

We're not drafting for team need with a top 5 pick. By the time a guy like Simmons comes into his own more than half this team will be gone.

If we want a go-to scorer, then I imagine we'll be trading this pick.

[Celtsfan1980]

Ingram shooting 38%. Bender shooting 36%. Skal and Stone are mediocre rebounders. Disappointing thus far.

[Curmudgeon]

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

He's unathletic, unsmooth, and Wake absolutely torched him on defense yesterday. He's still young, but I don't much upside there.

Dean Demakis ‏@deanondraft

Like most of the NCAA freshmen, Thomas Bryant doesn't look like a prospect to me.

Ugh.

I believe little of what this guy Demakis says. I remember that last year he was dissing Porzingis (among others). Having said that, he may be right about Bryant, a player I haven't watched.