Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[Curmudgeon]

Another vote for Garuba if they can get him.

[Hal14]

Bring him back, Brad!

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Why not both though ?

Perhaps. But then Kornet would have to be either traded or waived before his next contract guarantee date..And you may want to keep Kornet (who's 7'2") rather than having Griffin and Garuba, who are both undersized bigs, at 6'9" and 6'8", respectively.

[Shak_Celts]

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Why not both though ?

Perhaps. But then Kornet would have to be either traded or waived before his next contract guarantee date..And you may want to keep Kornet (who's 7'2") rather than having Griffin and Garuba, who are both undersized bigs, at 6'9" and 6'8", respectively.

All 7'2s arent the same, if you aren't good you could be Tacko and it wouldn't matter a lick if your game aint there for this league.

[darrendaye]

Bring him back, Brad!

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Why not both though ?

100% agree. Though I would love a forum round-table discussion on where we anticipate the fit of any big man outside the big 3. I see Garuba as a great defensive deploy. Griffin is a vet, hustle, savvy, more offense oriented deploy. Where do people see Kornet's superpower? I like Korny and willing to be open minded and sold otherwise, but the possible combo here (Blak/Garuba) is very interesting to me when you consider the lack of recent draft resources used for big men and the time it typically takes to develop these guys, I'd still want to pursue this option.

With Porzingis here as a lengthy rim protector, I don't see where Kornet would be the better injury replacement than Griffin. You now have 3 guys to cover that rim protector role and Garuba gives you an emergency situation option if 2 of them are injured at the same time.

EDIT: Sorry Hal/Shak, I got started on this reply before seeing you both also replied in the series.

[darrendaye]

Another vote for Garuba if they can get him.

You can +1 a brother every now and then.

[Hal14]

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Why not both though ?

100% agree. Though I would love a forum round-table discussion on where we anticipate the fit of any big man outside the big 3. I see Garuba as a great defensive deploy. Griffin is a vet, hustle, savvy, more offense oriented deploy. Where do people see Kornet's superpower? I like Korny and willing to be open minded and sold otherwise, but the possible combo here (Blak/Garuba) is very interesting to me when you consider the lack of recent draft resources used for big men and the time it typically takes to develop these guys, I'd still want to pursue this option.

With Porzingis here as a lengthy rim protector, I don't see where Kornet would be the better injury replacement than Griffin. You now have 3 guys to cover that rim protector role and Garuba gives you an emergency situation option if 2 of them are injured at the same time.

All of that is true. But what do you do with Kornet? As of now, he has a contract for this season with Boston. Garuba and Griffin do not.

Not sure the exact structure of Kornet's deal, but I think a portion of his contract has already been guaranteed which would mean he's unlikely to get waived. Brad loves Kornet and he's been with the team for 2.5 years now. So yeah, I don't see him getting waived. And no one is likely to want to trade for him. Perhaps he could be included as filler in a deal, but what deal would that be?

[darrendaye]

Why not both though ?

100% agree. Though I would love a forum round-table discussion on where we anticipate the fit of any big man outside the big 3. I see Garuba as a great defensive deploy. Griffin is a vet, hustle, savvy, more offense oriented deploy. Where do people see Kornet's superpower? I like Korny and willing to be open minded and sold otherwise, but the possible combo here (Blak/Garuba) is very interesting to me when you consider the lack of recent draft resources used for big men and the time it typically takes to develop these guys, I'd still want to pursue this option.

With Porzingis here as a lengthy rim protector, I don't see where Kornet would be the better injury replacement than Griffin. You now have 3 guys to cover that rim protector role and Garuba gives you an emergency situation option if 2 of them are injured at the same time.

All of that is true. But what do you do with Kornet? As of now, he has a contract for this season with Boston. Garuba and Griffin do not.

Not sure the exact structure of Kornet's deal, but I think a portion of his contract has already been guaranteed which would mean he's unlikely to get waived. Brad loves Kornet and he's been with the team for 2.5 years now. So yeah, I don't see him getting waived. And no one is likely to want to trade for him. Perhaps he could be included as filler in a deal, but what deal would that be?

2022-23: $100,000 guaranteed, $300,000 guaranted on 8/15/22, $1,066,639 guaranteed Opening Night, fully guaranteed on 1/10/23

I could argue that he wouldn't be a guy that definitely gets signed elsewhere if waived. But the challenging issue is whether they willingly go into (possible, but not likely) 2nd apron territory to start the year. But that might factor into signing Blake anyway as I imagine his vet minimum number will be higher than Kornet's contract value. Unless they cut Champagnie and just leave 15th spot open but that doesn't seem likely they would just drop a wing without replacing.

[steefP2]

Not to **** all over DarrenDaye here but I’m not convinced Garuna is an NBA player. Makes no sense for him to be on this team; he needs to play and can’t or shouldn’t do that here.

[steefP2]

But I’d take him over Moses brown if that helps

[165bows]

Why not both though ?

100% agree. Though I would love a forum round-table discussion on where we anticipate the fit of any big man outside the big 3. I see Garuba as a great defensive deploy. Griffin is a vet, hustle, savvy, more offense oriented deploy. Where do people see Kornet's superpower? I like Korny and willing to be open minded and sold otherwise, but the possible combo here (Blak/Garuba) is very interesting to me when you consider the lack of recent draft resources used for big men and the time it typically takes to develop these guys, I'd still want to pursue this option.

With Porzingis here as a lengthy rim protector, I don't see where Kornet would be the better injury replacement than Griffin. You now have 3 guys to cover that rim protector role and Garuba gives you an emergency situation option if 2 of them are injured at the same time.

All of that is true. But what do you do with Kornet? As of now, he has a contract for this season with Boston. Garuba and Griffin do not.

Not sure the exact structure of Kornet's deal, but I think a portion of his contract has already been guaranteed which would mean he's unlikely to get waived. Brad loves Kornet and he's been with the team for 2.5 years now. So yeah, I don't see him getting waived. And no one is likely to want to trade for him. Perhaps he could be included as filler in a deal, but what deal would that be?

I’d be real surprised if Kornet went anywhere. Not only did Brad give him that deal he’s been way way better since he got the deal than before.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Not to **** all over DarrenDaye here but I’m not convinced Garuna is an NBA player. Makes no sense for him to be on this team; he needs to play and can’t or shouldn’t do that here.

I think he can be a NBA guy, I understand if other people aren't sold. The thing is that anybody you get for the 14/15th spot is going to be a pretty fringe prospect. Garuba's contract at least provides some upside because you can keep him for years at a very reasonable price (as a defensive big with limited offensive upside, he'll get crushed in RFA so his second contract is going to be below market value). It's a much better value proposition than getting a similarly fringe guy that you have to give a minimum vet to and is just going to walk for a bigger paycheck after a year if he actually hits.

He can get reps playing in Maine if necessary. His biggest issue is his shooting and he can work on that anywhere.

[darrendaye]

But I’d take him over Moses brown if that helps

That does offer some consolation. I'll be back after I hit the shower.

[cl2117]

For Garuba it all comes down to cost. If he's basically free, he's an outstanding option for the 14th roster spot.

He's a lottery ticket who could theoretically eat minutes in a pinch and he keeps us below the 2nd apron. Let him compete with Kornet to be the guy who eats all the minutes missed by our main 3 bigs. If he works out great, if not then decline his option and/or use him as trade filler, send him to Maine.

I'd probably give up a weak 2nd for him but beyond that I'd probably pass. It's just unlikely he gets the opportunity to break through for us, better off getting one of the options that doesn't require assets. But for free(ish)? Sign me up.

Blake also makes too much sense to me. He's free to acquire, he already has good team chemistry and is a great locker room guy. Most importantly for both parties is that he thrived in a sporadic spot start role. I don't think he has enough gas left in the tank to be a regular rotation piece but he's proven he can string together enough performances to get you through an injury depleted stretch or to rest Horford/Rob/KP on back to backs.

[Curmudgeon]

Not to **** all over DarrenDaye here but I’m not convinced Garuna is an NBA player. Makes no sense for him to be on this team; he needs to play and can’t or shouldn’t do that here.

Garuba is absolutely an NBA player. This is a kid who was starting for Real Madrid at age 18. Excellent defender, sound fundamentally. Frankly I would expect Presti to want alot for him.

[cl2117]

Not to **** all over DarrenDaye here but I’m not convinced Garuna is an NBA player. Makes no sense for him to be on this team; he needs to play and can’t or shouldn’t do that here.

Garuba is absolutely an NBA player. This is a kid who was starting for Real Madrid at age 18. Excellent defender, sound fundamentally. Frankly I would expect Presti to want alot for him.

In fairness he just got dumped twice. First Houston dumped him to Atlanta and then Atlanta to OKC. I'd be surprised if he commanded anything of note.

[Fencer reregistered]

100% agree. Though I would love a forum round-table discussion on where we anticipate the fit of any big man outside the big 3. I see Garuba as a great defensive deploy. Griffin is a vet, hustle, savvy, more offense oriented deploy. Where do people see Kornet's superpower? I like Korny and willing to be open minded and sold otherwise, but the possible combo here (Blak/Garuba) is very interesting to me when you consider the lack of recent draft resources used for big men and the time it typically takes to develop these guys, I'd still want to pursue this option.

With Porzingis here as a lengthy rim protector, I don't see where Kornet would be the better injury replacement than Griffin. You now have 3 guys to cover that rim protector role and Garuba gives you an emergency situation option if 2 of them are injured at the same time.

All of that is true. But what do you do with Kornet? As of now, he has a contract for this season with Boston. Garuba and Griffin do not.

Not sure the exact structure of Kornet's deal, but I think a portion of his contract has already been guaranteed which would mean he's unlikely to get waived. Brad loves Kornet and he's been with the team for 2.5 years now. So yeah, I don't see him getting waived. And no one is likely to want to trade for him. Perhaps he could be included as filler in a deal, but what deal would that be?

2022-23: $100,000 guaranteed, $300,000 guaranted on 8/15/22, $1,066,639 guaranteed Opening Night, fully guaranteed on 1/10/23

I could argue that he wouldn't be a guy that definitely gets signed elsewhere if waived. But the challenging issue is whether they willingly go into (possible, but not likely) 2nd apron territory to start the year. But that might factor into signing Blake anyway as I imagine his vet minimum number will be higher than Kornet's contract value. Unless they cut Champagnie and just leave 15th spot open but that doesn't seem likely they would just drop a wing without replacing.

Why wouldn't Blake accept true vet minimum and hence let the Celts get the salary and cap subsidies that go with that?

I can't think of a reason, unless he chooses to retire outright, which he well might if his non-sporadic playing days are over.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Somewhere Deuce cries...

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[darrendaye]

All of that is true. But what do you do with Kornet? As of now, he has a contract for this season with Boston. Garuba and Griffin do not.

Not sure the exact structure of Kornet's deal, but I think a portion of his contract has already been guaranteed which would mean he's unlikely to get waived. Brad loves Kornet and he's been with the team for 2.5 years now. So yeah, I don't see him getting waived. And no one is likely to want to trade for him. Perhaps he could be included as filler in a deal, but what deal would that be?

2022-23: $100,000 guaranteed, $300,000 guaranted on 8/15/22, $1,066,639 guaranteed Opening Night, fully guaranteed on 1/10/23

I could argue that he wouldn't be a guy that definitely gets signed elsewhere if waived. But the challenging issue is whether they willingly go into (possible, but not likely) 2nd apron territory to start the year. But that might factor into signing Blake anyway as I imagine his vet minimum number will be higher than Kornet's contract value. Unless they cut Champagnie and just leave 15th spot open but that doesn't seem likely they would just drop a wing without replacing.

Why wouldn't Blake accept true vet minimum and hence let the Celts get the salary and cap subsidies that go with that?

I can't think of a reason, unless he chooses to retire outright, which he well might if his non-sporadic playing days are over.

That part of the cap impact (vet min) I'm not greatly well-versed. He was paid 2.9mm last year and Spotrac has the cap hit as just over 1.8mm. So, we estimate the real # going up to 3mm or so and the cap impact at 2mm or so for 23/24? So, right, it may fit snuggly into the 2.2mm cleared cap space before the 2nd apron. Unless there is further reduction that I am unaware. Good catch.

My Garuba for Kornet swap adds 275,096 to the cap (Garuba 2,588,400 + Kornet's 100,000 due - 2,413,304 Kornet total cap number) so that probably tips it over. But again, this is counting Rob and Derrick's unlikely to be earned incentives being triggered.

[darrendaye]

Somewhere Deuce cries...

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Disappointing. I cry for him.

EDIT: I'm dubious.

EDITED EDIT: No way that's him.

After a 20 second view of the replies now, this my favorite..

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[celtxman]

I would prefer to keep Brogdon unless Boston packages him + picks for an upgrade in talent. One example is Brogdon + filler?? + pick/s for DDR and Caruso etc... Other than that I am not interested in splitting one good (6th man OTY) and good starter when needed for 2 backend rotational pieces.

Exactly. Understandably or not Grant Williams was lost with no return. That is already hurting their depth..
They cannot afford to give up Brogdon without it being a good trade. The Clippers probably messed up Brogdons value - don't sell low.

Not really. Grant was getting DNP's last season and then we added Porzingis. Grant even said it himself, he could see the writing on the wall - he knew at the end of the season (even before we traded for KP) that he was probably not returning to Boston.

Grant will be able to start in Dallas, so good for him. It makes no sense for us to pay Grant over $13 mil a year to be our 4th big and 8th player in the rotation. Hell, Hauser was better than him in basically every advanced stat so you're essentially paying over $13 mil a year for a 9th man who will get DNP's - makes no sense.

What does make sense is Dallas giving him $13 mil a year to be their starting PF.

So it made no sense for Boston to give Grant that contract, and it did make sense for Dallas to give him that contract. And Grant was a free agent. Fortunately, Brad was able to work some magic with a sign and trade to still somehow get 2 draft picks and a $6 mil TPE, rather than losing Grant for nothing - genius

Now, the mins Grant was getting last year will be going to Porzingis - a much better player. Some of those mins will go to Hauser - who was better than Grant for most of the season and was better than Grant and basically every advanced stat. And we added Brissett and Walsh who can also help fill the Grant void. Which isn't a very big void anyways, since he was getting DNP's last season and is a guy who is an undersized big, too slow to play the wing, took a step back last season defensively, and lost multiple games for us last season (bricked 2 FTs at the end of the Cleveland game, turned it over in the clutch vs Milwaukee..)

You're putting too much weight on whether Grant staying or not. I wouldn't have signed him for that either. I'll expand my point. The punch line was at the end. Don't sell low on Brogdon. As things stand today you gave up 2 players for 1 (Smart, Grant for Porzingis.) I LIKE this. But now don't be casual about Brogdon because you may be more talented with KP but he has been fragile and depth for the regular season is needed.
I didn't shed a tear when Grant went elsewhere because I believe Brissett can absorb quality minutes while Grant's PF minutes get absorbed with KP. I'm OK with resigning Blake for injury purposes.