Celtics need to send IT back to the bench

[BfB]

This is one man's opinion and is certainly open to debate.

I believe the Celtics need to bring IT back off the bench as the 6th man and start Marcus Smart for a few reasons.

If people can remember in the beginning of this season the Celtics had an aggressive defensive identity to start games which lead to easy offense (yes the offense did struggle on the first unit) but they would set the tone and then IT would come off the bench and clean up. I believe the Celtics have lost this identity and need to get back to that as a unit.

When IT starts and then goes to the bench the Celtics have no offense. Zero. IT then has to come into the game and play hero ball just to give them a chance. Game after game IT as a starter puts up 30+ points and the Celtics lose. If the goal is to get IT to the all-star game then this is the way to go. If the goal is to win I don't think this is the right path.

Secondly, the Celtics need to find out is Marcus Smart is the player they think he can be and is he part of the future. The only way they are going to find out is if the play him heavy minutes. Smart needs minutes to improve if he is going to improve.

IT can come off the bench and play with Lee, Jerebko, Young, Zeller, Sully, Hunter etc. and score points. Turner and Smart can not. This is not a knock on IT at all in fact it's kudos that he can play with anyone.

I believe what's best for the Celtics is IT back as the 6th man. If the Celtics stick to IT starting I believe you are going to see a lot of IT scoring 30+ points and the Celtics losing. Celtics are 1-3 when IT scores 30+ points this season. This doesn't help anyone because the Celtics lose and they still won't know what they have in Marcus Smart.

Your opinions are appreciated.

The problem is IT is the only one who can play offense - there is no quick fix. Crowder is developing nicely, se we have that to watch, but AB is really struggling to get open looks now that defenses are game planning for him.

BOS needs another primary scorer of IT's level to open things up for everybody. Thats the only thin that'll fix things.

[Patsfan1081]

Sometimes it's better to keep opinions to yourself.

Let's put our best player on the bench.

This team starting losing ever since Smart came back.

IT is some of the best PG's in the East. Enough with this stuff.

This is a public forum, he can say what ever he wants. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make you correct. Smart has nothing to do with this team losing, he played twelve minutes vs the Lakers and Nets so it's a very poor excuse. IT is very good at getting to the hoop and to the line, but for some reason people turn a blind eye to his shortcomings. He is not going to get an all star bid going 31 % from three point range and 27 % from 3-10 feet out. For the points IT scored in the fourth quater last night, a rookie Grant abused him on the other end of the court last night clinching the game for NY.

[Patsfan1081]

This team blows on offense, so lets give our best offensive threat less minutes. Makes sense no?!

You can give him the same amount of minutes, but match him up against bench defenses. It's a valid argument. Our formula late last season was to keep it close to even or even and then the bench blew games open. This year, the starters are keeping it close and then the bench is keeping it close or giving up ground. We end up in close games at the end. There's no obvious answer.

Yeah, I can't understand how people don't understand that. IT's defensive problems are less noticeable against teams second units. Also Smart has played what, a dozen games this season? The poor shooting % would have more merit if Smart wasn't 21 and still learning the offense.

[Celts17Pride]

The problem is IT is the only one who can play offense - there is no quick fix. Crowder is developing nicely, se we have that to watch, but AB is really struggling to get open looks now that defenses are game planning for him.

BOS needs another primary scorer of IT's level to open things up for everybody. Thats the only thin that'll fix things.

I agree there is no easy fix because the Celtics lack offensive talent. I just think starting Smart accomplishes two things. First it gets the Celtics in a defensive mind set right out of the gate and the Celtics aggressive defense helps their offense. Secondly it continues to develop Smart so the Celtics can figure out what they have with him. Is he a keeper?

IT can play with anyone but Smart and Turner can't bring what IT can off the bench. Just an opinion.

[Ben-N1ce]

Sometimes it's better to keep opinions to yourself.

Let's put our best player on the bench.

This team starting losing ever since Smart came back.

IT is some of the best PG's in the East. Enough with this stuff.

This is a public forum, he can say what ever he wants. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make you correct. Smart has nothing to do with this team losing, he played twelve minutes vs the Lakers and Nets so it's a very poor excuse. IT is very good at getting to the hoop and to the line, but for some reason people turn a blind eye to his shortcomings. He is not going to get an all star bid going 31 % from three point range and 27 % from 3-10 feet out. For the points IT scored in the fourth quater last night, a rookie Grant abused him on the other end of the court last night clinching the game for NY.

For PG's IT's real plus minus is 2.84 which is 9th in the league. Smart is 52nd at -2.23 and that takes into account defense and offense. Thanks god defense sure makes up for his woeful offense.

[Parliament10]

I find this thread amusing. It seems most care about an individuals stats rather than the team winning.

-Celtics were 24-12 with I.Thomas off the bench to end the year last year.

-Celtics were 7-5 when Smart got hurt this year with a really difficult opening schedule.

-We added Amir in the offseason.

-Injuries, especially to Smart, obviously have played into our 19-19 record.

-Celtics are 2-9 when IT scores more than 24 pts

If you start Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Amir, KO and have IT come off the bench playing the SG role with E.Turner running PG Sully rebounding, Jerebko hustling, this team starts to win again.

Imagine being the opposing team and having to start the game with the defensive BUZZSAW of Smart, Bradley, Crowder. It sets the tone of the game immediately. Then you have IT & ET playing against the other teams 2nd unit.

Come on Brad. Get it together man!!!

Good Points. Add the Defense of Amir. Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Amir. That's our lockdown defense. They all have to score a bit, as well. I'd put Sully in the Starting Unit, to add to that.

[Parliament10]

The problem is IT is the only one who can play offense - there is no quick fix. Crowder is developing nicely, se we have that to watch, but AB is really struggling to get open looks now that defenses are game planning for him.

BOS needs another primary scorer of IT's level to open things up for everybody. Thats the only thin that'll fix things.

I agree there is no easy fix because the Celtics lack offensive talent. I just think starting Smart accomplishes two things. First it gets the Celtics in a defensive mind set right out of the gate and the Celtics aggressive defense helps their offense. Secondly it continues to develop Smart so the Celtics can figure out what they have with him. Is he a keeper?

IT can play with anyone but Smart and Turner can't bring what IT can off the bench. Just an opinion.

Agreed.

IT comes in with the Second Unit, and bats cleans up.

[SichtingLives]

I have to agree with what I think is the general consensus. There is no quick fix on this roster, we are offense deficient any way you cut it. By the 2nd half it doesn't matter who started or came off the bench. I don't blame anyone on this forum but we're all basically spinning our wheels trying to find solutions that aren't there while anxiously awaiting *Bill Burr style* Traaaading Seasonnnn

[Slartibartfast]

This team blows on offense, so lets give our best offensive threat less minutes. Makes sense no?!

You can give him the same amount of minutes, but match him up against bench defenses. It's a valid argument. Our formula late last season was to keep it close to even or even and then the bench blew games open. This year, the starters are keeping it close and then the bench is keeping it close or giving up ground. We end up in close games at the end. There's no obvious answer.

The problem is it might be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. As Curm stated in the tank thread, IT is in part campaigning for the all-star game right now. His usage level is starting to tick up in a major way (at prime Melo levels so far in January).

He's averaging career highs in points and assists - selling him on going to the bench for Smart or ET with their turd efficiency is going to be very difficult. He's going to feel disrespected like he did in Sacramento.

And unfortunately, Brad has not shown himself to be capable of handling this kind of QB controversy just yet.

[Fencer reregistered]

If you favor benching IT -- how many minutes per game do you envision him playing?

[GuyClinch]

Haven't we lost like every game with KO starting.. Maybe we should send him back to the bench first. Spice it up - Start Mickey..

Straight up the C's are playing poorly as compared to earlier - so you bench IT - you piss him off - and we still lose games. It just doesn't seem like a good plan..

[Green89]

The problem is IT is the only one who can play offense - there is no quick fix. Crowder is developing nicely, se we have that to watch, but AB is really struggling to get open looks now that defenses are game planning for him.

BOS needs another primary scorer of IT's level to open things up for everybody. Thats the only thin that'll fix things.

I agree there is no easy fix because the Celtics lack offensive talent. I just think starting Smart accomplishes two things. First it gets the Celtics in a defensive mind set right out of the gate and the Celtics aggressive defense helps their offense. Secondly it continues to develop Smart so the Celtics can figure out what they have with him. Is he a keeper?

IT can play with anyone but Smart and Turner can't bring what IT can off the bench. Just an opinion.

We're 8-10 in the 18 games Marcus Smart has played in and 12-9 without him. We're 3-6 since Smart came back from injury. I think his complete lack of offense outweighs his stellar defense. 18 games is a small sample size, and he's returned twice from injuries, but his offensive averages keep trending downward instead of upward in his last several games. It's almost as if the more aggressive he is on defense, takes even more away from his offense. He had huge issues finishing at the rim last night. He got the one key steal for us, but also looked foolish getting stuffed and missing point blank shots, and he threw that ball away that could have been costly. How much run do you give Smart if he's costing our team wins?

[SparringPartner]

We're 8-10 in the 18 games Marcus Smart has played in and 12-9 without him. We're 3-6 since Smart came back from injury. I think his complete lack of offense outweighs his stellar defense. 18 games is a small sample size, and he's returned twice from injuries, but his offensive averages keep trending downward instead of upward in his last several games. It's almost as if the more aggressive he is on defense, takes even more away from his offense. He had huge issues finishing at the rim last night. He got the one key steal for us, but also looked foolish getting stuffed and missing point blank shots, and he threw that ball away that could have been costly. How much run do you give Smart if he's costing our team wins?

Any advanced stat shows Smart helps us win games. Most people get wrapped up into FG%, etc. Brad Stevens says it all the time about players..."he helps us win games"..."he knows how to win"..."he adds to winning". To blame Smart for the last 9 games is just ridiculous.

Three things;

1) Last nights Indiana game was fools gold. The Pacers looked horrible after flying in from PHX and we barely won that game. So anything that went down last night is really difficult to gage.

2) The "eye test" says Smart's injuries are affecting his play. Just watch him run, it looks like he's in slow motion. My point, hard to critique Smart's game right now. Honestly his movement and play remind me a lot of the end of the year last year.

3) Ainge is known for making his players aware that they're possible on the block. I'm thinking this fact is affecting certain players on the team, especially Kelly Olynyk. KO just looks like a disappointed little puppy dog right now.

[shawn unkempt]

There is no rotational change that's going to drastically change this team. Tinkering around the margins is only going to do so much, we need talent upgrades pretty much every where. Just as long as Lee is glued to the bench, that is.

[SparringPartner]

There is no rotational change that's going to drastically change this team. Tinkering around the margins is only going to do so much, we need talent upgrades pretty much every where. Just as long as Lee is glued to the bench, that is.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but at the same time;

- In the last 36 games of last year the Celtics were 24-12. (Smart's "stats" weren't eye-popping then either)

- We added Amir Johnson in 2016, a plus.

- Jae Crowder is playing at a different level in 2016, a plus

- Cause and Effect - Injuries led to rotation changes

- The Celtics are finally "healthy".

Go back to the winning rotations. Who cares if individual players numbers (IT) are great. We're not winning.

[shawn unkempt]

There is no rotational change that's going to drastically change this team. Tinkering around the margins is only going to do so much, we need talent upgrades pretty much every where. Just as long as Lee is glued to the bench, that is.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but at the same time;

- In the last 36 games of last year the Celtics were 24-12. (Smart's "stats" weren't eye-popping then either)

- We added Amir Johnson in 2016, a plus.

- Jae Crowder is playing at a different level in 2016, a plus

- Cause and Effect - Injuries led to rotation changes

- The Celtics are finally "healthy".

Go back to the winning rotations. Who cares if individual players numbers (IT) are great. We're not winning.

Most of the teams we were beating up on last year have significantly improved. Can't really compare our records from last year to this years with such a radical shift in the quality of teams in the east.

[SparringPartner]

Most of the teams we were beating up on last year have significantly improved. Can't really compare our records from last year to this years with such a radical shift in the quality of teams in the east.

Do some research.

Before Jan 1st 2015 the C's had the easiest Strength of Schedule (SOS) in the entire league. After Jan 1st last season we had the 4th toughest. The C's went on their run last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league.

For this year we're right in the middle for SOS to date, so a far "easier" schedule than the second part of last year.

[Banks2Pierce]

The C's went on their run last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league.

Weren't two of those wins against Cleveland resting their guys, which would clearly juke SOS?
We're playing at the same level as far as NetRTG that we did last season and just happen to be seeing both sides of the record in close games coin. We added Amir for Bass, but the gains were canceled out by Smart being healthy for maybe 5 games.

[truth18]

The C's went on their run last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league.

Weren't two of those wins against Cleveland resting their guys, which would clearly juke SOS?
We're playing at the same level as far as NetRTG that we did last season and just happen to be seeing both sides of the record in close games coin. We added Amir for Bass, but the gains were canceled out by Smart being healthy for maybe 5 games.

No, the myth that Cleveland threw those games is just that, a myth. I watched those games and they were playing for the win.

Agree 100% about your main point, and the bold section, just saying.

[shawn unkempt]

The C's went on their run last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league.

Weren't two of those wins against Cleveland resting their guys, which would clearly juke SOS?
We're playing at the same level as far as NetRTG that we did last season and just happen to be seeing both sides of the record in close games coin. We added Amir for Bass, but the gains were canceled out by Smart being healthy for maybe 5 games.

No, the myth that Cleveland threw those games is just that, a myth. I watched those games and they were playing for the win.

Agree 100% about your main point, and the bold section, just saying.

It's not a myth, the first game Irving didn't play and Lebron only got 26 minutes. The second game Lebron, Irving and Love didn't play. They clearly weren't trying their hardest to win those.