Fultz vs. Tatum: What do you think now?

[Parliament10]

I loved the trade at the time and after last night I still do. I think both Fultz and Tatum will be studs. Fultz really looked like a guy who can score from anywhere and proved worthy of the hype. However, I think last night Tatum proved Ainge's point that picks 1-4 were comparible talents and therefore trading sideways to get another lottery pick was very wise. It's still early but I think Tatum showed me enough to believe that Ainge was serious when he said he would have picked him first.

I'm really curious to see what others think.

IMO we should have gotten 3 picks, for the very 1st pick.
The #3 (2017), the 2018 & a 2019 pick. Protected, or whatever.

As any 1st round pick, is worth 2 picks.

But, as we see it being played out. It doesn't look too bad.
We're still going to get another high pick.

I still would have been happy with a 3rd pick. Even if it was a high 2nd.
But, for now -- after seeing the play of Tatum & Brown (aka 7-11) -- I got a Flintstone.:

Spoiler:

[Marvel]

I loved the trade at the time and after last night I still do. I think both Fultz and Tatum will be studs. Fultz really looked like a guy who can score from anywhere and proved worthy of the hype. However, I think last night Tatum proved Ainge's point that picks 1-4 were comparible talents and therefore trading sideways to get another lottery pick was very wise. It's still early but I think Tatum showed me enough to believe that Ainge was serious when he said he would have picked him first.

I'm really curious to see what others think.

IMO we should have gotten 3 picks, for the very 1st pick.
The #3 (2017), the 2018 & a 2019 pick. Protected, or whatever.

As any 1st round pick, is worth 2 picks.

But, as we see it being played out. It doesn't look too bad.
We're still going to get another high pick.

I still would have been happy with a 3rd pick. Even if it was a high 2nd.
But, for now -- after seeing the play of Tatum & Brown (aka 7-11) -- I got a Flintstone.:

Spoiler:

Picks with no protections on them would've been savvy buuuut...

[greenmachine_2849]

If Tatum is even a comparable player to Fultz, we win the trade. The pressure is all on Fultz to prove to be head and shoulders above the class. If he isn't, Philly will look bad for giving up another lottery pick to move up to #1 and not select the best player in the draft.

This logic seems completely backwards to me. Ainge initially had the top pick in the draft and could have chosen anybody that he wanted to. Tatum is the implied number one pick in this draft, and the pressure is entirely on him (and Ainge) to prove he was worthy of that honor. If in five years Fultz is an all-star starter in the east, while Tatum is averaging 14/6 as a solid but unspectacular nba starter, are Boston Celtic fans REALLY going to be okay with that? That he was the number one pick, and of course he was expected to be the better player? No, they will/should crucify Ainge if that happens. Think of how much criticism that Ainge has gotten from fans for passing on players like Giannis and Deandre? Take that criticism and multiply it by one thousand, and that is how much criticism he will receive if Fultz/Tatum turns into the next Jordan/Bowie type situation.

And really, if any of the top five or so picks wind up appreciably better than Tatum, that criticism is still going to be valid, imo. Ainge was in the driver's seat in this draft, and he needed to hit a home run. We shall see if he did.

[Kalela]

Summer League means squat, even after 1 full NBA season we won't know, both looked good in the SL which means absolutly nothing. Tatum had the better game of the two and i am glad he did not make a fool of himself but you can't judge anything based on summer league.

Like someone said Summer League determines who doesn't belong in the NBA but not who will be a star there. If you can't show up in Summer League then you have no future in the league.

[Bar Fight]

If Tatum is even a comparable player to Fultz, we win the trade. The pressure is all on Fultz to prove to be head and shoulders above the class. If he isn't, Philly will look bad for giving up another lottery pick to move up to #1 and not select the best player in the draft.

This logic seems completely backwards to me. Ainge initially had the top pick in the draft and could have chosen anybody that he wanted to. Tatum is the implied number one pick in this draft, and the pressure is entirely on him (and Ainge) to prove he was worthy of that honor. If in five years Fultz is an all-star starter in the east, while Tatum is averaging 14/6 as a solid but unspectacular nba starter, are Boston Celtic fans REALLY going to be okay with that? That he was the number one pick, and of course he was expected to be the better player? No, they will/should crucify Ainge if that happens. Think of how much criticism that Ainge has gotten from fans for passing on players like Giannis and Deandre? Take that criticism and multiply it by one thousand, and that is how much criticism he will receive if Fultz/Tatum turns into the next Jordan/Bowie type situation.

And really, if any of the top five or so picks wind up appreciably better than Tatum, that criticism is still going to be valid, imo. Ainge was in the driver's seat in this draft, and he needed to hit a home run. We shall see if he did.

That's not what I said at all. Did you even read my post? I specifically said if Fultz proves to be head and shoulders above Tatum (like suggested in your example), they obviously win the trade. But in our case, if the value of Tatum + the next pick is greater than just Fultz, we win. So Tatum could be the worse player, but if it's not by a large margin, there's no way you can question Ainge on this unless the future pick completely busts (and even then, you could argue it was still worth the chance).

Danny traded out of number 1 because he thought there wasn't much difference in the top picks, and he personally liked Tatum. The Sixers traded up because they thought Fultz was head and shoulders above the other prospects. You're acting like we didn't get another REALLY valuable asset out of this.

[Leprechaun18]

Tatum looks good, but lets wait a bit before declaring him a superstar. Its just one SL game. I was impressed with both prospects.

[Wes-J]

Nothing has changed yet. Fultz and Tatum are exactly who I thought they were.

Next game

[Leprechaun18]

Summer League means squat, even after 1 full NBA season we won't know, both looked good in the SL which means absolutly nothing. Tatum had the better game of the two and i am glad he did not make a fool of himself but you can't judge anything based on summer league.

Like someone said Summer League determines who doesn't belong in the NBA but not who will be a star there. If you can't show up in Summer League then you have no future in the league.

Thats not true. There have been bigs like Big Al who did not immediately dominate in SL, but later became All Stars. Bigs often struggle unless the coaches made certain they got the ball. IMO SL is about looks.

[Upperclass]

This reminds me of the Cwebb for Penny Hardaway trade from way back. Not in terms of overall impact, but in terms of both teams getting the guy that would fit and flourish best in their current system and lineup. Fultz would not have played well in Boston imo. Too much immediate pressure to win, and he needs to learn how to win vs. being carried to wins by a strong roster.

Tatum however, slots in perfectly as an instant offense, iso and utility guy. Someone who commands a defender otherwise he will rack up bucks and boards. And eventually could grow into the best player on their team. He needs strength and to avoid injuries, otherwise he's likely to be one of the most productive players in the draft.

[chakdaddy]

Tatum and Fultz were the two most elite scorers in this year's draft, and both looked good in their first summer league game.

I was OK with the trade because I was cool with either Josh Jackson or Tatum instead of Fultz. I think getting someone who can fit into the position-less 2/3/4 in the modern NBA is the most valuable. Plus we got a possible 2-5 pick in a pretty stacked draft next year for our troubles.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, I remember KO looking pretty good in his summer league games too. Both still have a long way to go...

Are we officially all in on position/less 2/3/4? Brown/Tatum/Hayward and tried for George?

[Taget]

Too early to tell. Neither has played a real NBA game. And we have yet to see what the LA/SAC pick gives us either draft wise or trade-wise.

[celticfan42487]

My main concern has always been will Tatum's floating athleticism translate to the NBA.

And I've always felt Fultz was the only player in this draft who you can reasonably expect to be an all-star. At least 50% chance.

That hasn't changed, but if Tatum can translate his goto scoring skills to the NBA then I'll take the trade. If he can't it was a mistake. Ainge is relying on his very poor drafting skills to bring him through on this one.

[mr_sunshine]

I think it's one summer league game and anyone thinking differently now is crazy. Both will be awesome players IMO.

[return2glory]

I liked the trade and still do. I really wanted Josh Jackson or Tatum even if we stayed at one. I was going back and forth with Jackson and Tatum.

Still way too early to tell but I liked what Ainge did. He said all along that he was going to get the guy he wanted and that guy was Tatum. And he still got an additional asset.

Fultz should have a better season than Tatum because Fultz will have more opportunity for playing time.

[reload141]

After the first SL game? Obviously Tatum is going to be a superstar and Fultz will be a good rotational player.

If we picked Fultz instead of Tatum? I would be saying the opposite.

[Kool_Name_Right]

Too early to tell still believe we could have nabbed either Saric or Holmes along with the LaL/Sac pick.

Overall I'd prefer we got Fultz but Tatum seems built for the league , bring up this thread in 3 years then we'll see the true value of both players and the trade we pulled

[greenmachine_2849]

That's not what I said at all. Did you even read my post? I specifically said if Fultz proves to be head and shoulders above Tatum (like suggested in your example), they obviously win the trade. But in our case, if the value of Tatum + the next pick is greater than just Fultz, we win. So Tatum could be the worse player, but if it's not by a large margin, there's no way you can question Ainge on this unless the future pick completely busts (and even then, you could argue it was still worth the chance).

Danny traded out of number 1 because he thought there wasn't much difference in the top picks, and he personally liked Tatum. The Sixers traded up because they thought Fultz was head and shoulders above the other prospects. You're acting like we didn't get another REALLY valuable asset out of this.

I read your post and just disagree with your assertion that all of the pressure is on Fultz. Ainge has already said (or very strongly implied) that he would have picked Tatum at one had he kept the pick. He didn't say anything about Fultz being the superior player but that hopefully the extra pick will turn into a good player and swing the trade in the Celtics' favor. Right now, it is largely a Tatum versus the 2017 field argument, in my opinion.

So to me, the extra pick is just gravy. And yes, maybe at the end of the day, that extra pick winds up yielding the best player in the whole exchange. But maybe it winds up being a non-lottery pick as well. Too much of a wildcard at this point.

[Fencer reregistered]

Nobody wants to be the team that picked Jalil Okafor and passed on Porzingis. I don't want to look back n feel the way Philli feels

Olynyk/Giannis

It happens

[Fencer reregistered]

Ainge's explanation can be paraphrased as "The two guys were otherwise comparable, but length matters". Nothing in the first game undermined that.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Nobody wants to be the team that picked Jalil Okafor and passed on Porzingis. I don't want to look back n feel the way Philli feels

Olynyk/Giannis

It happens

That's not a fair analysis. It's not like he slid from 1st pick to 16th pick. He was considered a long shot that needed years to develop when he came out. Super raw. When you pick second your in theory supposed to get the second best player in the draft when it all pans out.