Jaylen Brown Discussion Thread - New and Improved!

[rd26]

So I'm reluctant to even say anything since the whole point of the new thread was to get some of the anger out of the conversation and now the thread is about people being angry with me. But I've been thinking about this all night and pretty bummed about it.

I can't agree that I or anyone should be embarrassed that we have a new Jaylen Brown thread. Seems like a really silly thing to even care about in the grand scheme of things.

I'm trying to figure out why it caused the reaction it did and I'm thinking I was perhaps a little overbearing in my original post. I apologize for that. I spend most of my time on RGM modding the General Board which gets much more traffic and has many more problems that the Celtics board. Over there things can get out of hard very quickly so my MO is generally to nip things in the bud so I don't have to spend my day babysitting a bunch of weirdos for the zero pay I get for doing this lol. But that obviously rubs some people the wrong way on the C's board and I'll learn from this moving forward. The thing about "no personal attacks" is basic RGM policy, not me trying to be robocop.

It also seems like my one line about "Jaylen deserves a better thread" came across as somehow divisive and controversial. If anyone reacted that way I am very caught off guard and would suggest maybe reflecting on why you got upset that I said one nice thing about Jaylen Brown in the OP of a thread about him. Like, huh?

I don't often even click on this thread because I am a Jaylen Brown moderate and in general I am not drawn to threads where I feel like I'm on thin ice and going to get chewed out no matter what I say. It's just not my thing. I have enough problems in my real life and when I come on RGM I want to have a nice time, not fight people.

So I really don't even know who is a "lover" or "hater" of JB or what you guys are even saying about him. It's of no interest to me. It wasn't my intention to pick sides here.

Anyway, wanted to clarify and whine a bit I guess. Thanks for reading. I remain completely uninterested in the discussion here and I have no intention of overmodding the thread or modding it at all really lol. So it's the same thing as before and everyone can do their thing as far as I'm concerned. Cheers.

This is a great post. You were right to Restart the Thread.

Jaylen Brown is #2, of our 1-2 Punch. We're All Celtics fans. Let's All continue to enjoy our Team.

It’s a solid post after being 100% wrong in shutting down the thread. I give bisme credit for reflecting and articulating his points. There was no reason whatsoever to shut down the last thread but he pretty much covered that in his recent post so credit to him.

It’s not about picking sides either- that thread was 10 months old and 84 pages long. The fact that it was ongoing and 90% a productive thread shows you that users here didn’t think it was “stale” or not “refreshing”. Correct me if I’m wrong but a mods job isn’t to determine what is and isn’t good conversation….the posters do that. Bad threads die or never get going in the first place.

I thought mods were supposed to make sure the conversation stays within guidelines and no rules were broken. Regardless of where anyone stands on Jaylen if users are engaging in back and forth dialogue in a mostly civil or overwhelmingly civil tone no matter how redundant it’s not up to anyone to decide if the content is “old”. If it is don’t come in and if it is the thread will die. the line “so and so deserves better” is just a cringe line for an online forum built on debate regardless of who it’s about and that’s why I said it.

I used the word embarrassing and I meant in the context of the job- not in ya know someone’s actual life. there’s trade threads with the same deals discussed year round even past the deadline….you can’t just shut them down because this topic is boring you. The users make this place active. They direct the flow of conversation- not the other way around.

STRONGLY disagree.

I've been a die hard Celtics fan for close to 40 years. JB is currently my favorite player, and I'll be damned if I think I owe anybody an apology or even an explanation for that.

IMO 90% of the discussion regarding JB is driven by 5% of the posters from both extremes. The vast majority who fall somewhere in the middle are wasting their time saying anything. What should be one of the most interesting topics on the board has regressed into a cesspool.

IMO a moderators first job should be to help encourage and accommodate both traffic and productive discussion. This topic is very likely having a negative effect on both.

I dont want try to speak for anyone else, but I can say with 100% certainty, that for me, I feel like any attempt at trying to discuss my favorite topic here is a complete waste of my time.

This is generally an awesome board, but I feel like a reset on the tone of the majority of the discussion regarding JB was 100% in order and needed.

PS. bisme I think you do an excellent job. You will never please everybody, and maybe sometimes you try too hard to do exactly that. If I ever buy a message board, you can mod for me anytime. Keep up the good work.

[Feed Your Head]

[MagicBagley18]

This is a great post. You were right to Restart the Thread.

Jaylen Brown is #2, of our 1-2 Punch. We're All Celtics fans. Let's All continue to enjoy our Team.

It’s a solid post after being 100% wrong in shutting down the thread. I give bisme credit for reflecting and articulating his points. There was no reason whatsoever to shut down the last thread but he pretty much covered that in his recent post so credit to him.

It’s not about picking sides either- that thread was 10 months old and 84 pages long. The fact that it was ongoing and 90% a productive thread shows you that users here didn’t think it was “stale” or not “refreshing”. Correct me if I’m wrong but a mods job isn’t to determine what is and isn’t good conversation….the posters do that. Bad threads die or never get going in the first place.

I thought mods were supposed to make sure the conversation stays within guidelines and no rules were broken. Regardless of where anyone stands on Jaylen if users are engaging in back and forth dialogue in a mostly civil or overwhelmingly civil tone no matter how redundant it’s not up to anyone to decide if the content is “old”. If it is don’t come in and if it is the thread will die. the line “so and so deserves better” is just a cringe line for an online forum built on debate regardless of who it’s about and that’s why I said it.

I used the word embarrassing and I meant in the context of the job- not in ya know someone’s actual life. there’s trade threads with the same deals discussed year round even past the deadline….you can’t just shut them down because this topic is boring you. The users make this place active. They direct the flow of conversation- not the other way around.

STRONGLY disagree.

I've been a die hard Celtics fan for close to 40 years. JB is currently my favorite player, and I'll be damned if I think I owe anybody an apology or even an explanation for that.

IMO 90% of the discussion regarding JB is driven by 5% of the posters from both extremes. The vast majority who fall somewhere in the middle are wasting their time saying anything. What should be one of the most interesting topics on the board has regressed into a cesspool.

IMO a moderators first job should be to help encourage and accommodate both traffic and productive discussion. This topic is very likely having a negative effect on both.

I dont want try to speak for anyone else, but I can say with 100% certainty, that for me, I feel like any attempt at trying to discuss my favorite topic here is a complete waste of my time.

This is generally an awesome board, but I feel like a reset on the tone of the majority of the discussion regarding JB was 100% in order and needed.

PS. bisme I think you do an excellent job. You will never please everybody, and maybe sometimes you try too hard to do exactly that. If I ever buy a message board, you can mod for me anytime. Keep up the good work.

Sorry to hear about father. Prayers and blessings your way

[MagicBagley18]

You can’t reset a polarizing conversation….the simple subject of brown is a topic that’s gonna have varying opinions on it that inspire passionate conversations 1 way or the other. Like Pierce did at points. Like maxing IT did and others before them.

You can’t simply “reset” a controversial topic. If you don’t like criticism of a player that doesn’t make something a cess pool. That thread had a bunch of quality posts on it from both sides of the fence. A mods job from my POV isn’t to dictate what is and isn’t good conversation. It’s to make sure the conversation that does happen isn’t vulgar, crude, homophobic, racist or sexist.

You can start 5 brand new Jaylen threads and say “peace and love before them” it’s still going to be a polarizing discussion that people are passionate about and likely get into debates that sometimes border on or exceed guidelines. I also couldn’t careless who does and doesn’t agree with my point. Never have or will.

Bisme blew it on that one. Doesn’t make him a bad mod. If I ever buy a website I’d highly consider him for an interview

[Feed Your Head]

You can’t reset a polarizing conversation….the simple subject of brown is a topic that’s gonna have varying opinions on it that inspire passionate conversations 1 way or the other. Like Pierce did at points. Like maxing IT did and others before them.

You can’t simply “reset” a controversial topic and because you don’t like criticism of a player doesn’t make something a cess pool. That thread had a bunch of quality posts on it from both sides of the fence. A mods job from my POV isn’t to dictate what is it and isn’t good conversation. It’s to make sure the conversation that does happen isn’t vulgar, crude, homophobic, racist or sexist.

You can start 5 brand new Jaylen threads and say “peace and love before them” it’s still going to be a polarizing discussion that people are passionate about and likely get into debates that sometimes border on or exceed guidelines. I also couldn’t careless who does and doesn’t agree with my point. Never have or will.

Bisme blew it on that one. Doesn’t make him a bad mod. If I ever buy a website I’d highly consider him for an interview

This will be my only post on the topic. This thread will absolutely get nasty within a week or two. It’s unavoidable, you and I could never post in this thread again and it’ll be the same regardless. That’s just how it is when people have taken strong positions.

This back and forth PALES in comparison to the debates about Smart. In fact some of the same posters who complain about people being negative about Jaylen have done the same x10 about Smart, hell some even created threads about it.

The Jaylen stuff is over the top, both ways.

[big-shot-ROB]

I want to reference a post on the locked thread about Westbrook. I might be biased because I used to be a huge OKC fan when Ibaka moved there from my hometown team in Manresa, Barcelona. I agree WB as a first option would never translate to winning basketball (let's also keep in mind that those OKC teams were trash + George was scared of the Jazz), but I don't think Jaylen has done enough to dethrone WB as a better second option. WB was a great second option to Durant until 2017, and then did some incredible things as a first option. I don't think Jaylen is quite there (maybe if he gives us a ring as a second option then it becomes a discussion).

Also, about the whole insufficient 1st option VS elite 2nd option, this is a really hard debate. Jaylen has never been in a position where he's been asked to be a 1st option. His whole NBA career he was a complementary player, from a bench player to a great 2nd option. I don't think it's fair to judge some players based on their ability to be 2nd options when they've been asked to be 1st options most of their time in the league.

What would have happened to DeRozan or Lillard if they landed on teams that already had a clear 1st option? Would we rate them different than Brown? Would they be better 2nd options?
And the same can be said for Brown, how would his trajectory been if he was forced to act more as a first option? Would he be better (he's an incredible learner, despite his IQ limitations)? Would he be regarded worse, like KAT? (he's an incredible learner, despite his IQ limitations)

[rd26]

You can’t reset a polarizing conversation….the simple subject of brown is a topic that’s gonna have varying opinions on it that inspire passionate conversations 1 way or the other. Like Pierce did at points. Like maxing IT did and others before them.

You can’t simply “reset” a controversial topic and because you don’t like criticism of a player doesn’t make something a cess pool. That thread had a bunch of quality posts on it from both sides of the fence. A mods job from my POV isn’t to dictate what is it and isn’t good conversation. It’s to make sure the conversation that does happen isn’t vulgar, crude, homophobic, racist or sexist.

You can start 5 brand new Jaylen threads and say “peace and love before them” it’s still going to be a polarizing discussion that people are passionate about and likely get into debates that sometimes border on or exceed guidelines. I also couldn’t careless who does and doesn’t agree with my point. Never have or will.

Bisme blew it on that one. Doesn’t make him a bad mod. If I ever buy a website I’d highly consider him for an interview

This will be my only post on the topic. This thread will absolutely get nasty within a week or two. It’s unavoidable, you and I could never post in this thread again and it’ll be the same regardless. That’s just how it is when people have taken strong positions.

This back and forth PALES in comparison to the debates about Smart. In fact some of the same posters who complain about people being negative about Jaylen have done the same x10 about Smart, hell some even created threads about it.

The Jaylen stuff is over the top, both ways.

Ok I'm going to redirect myself here, or at least attempt to clarify.

First of all I agree with 95% of these 2 posts. Where we differ:

Debate is no fun if the parties agree. I am always interested in what both of you, along with several others have to say on this topic and many others.

Secondly you can't get blood from a turnip, and the turnips seem to have taken over. I don't mind extreme opinions, I just don't enjoy filtering through dozens of them on perpetual repeat to find the 2 or 3 im interested in.

Shut up and let the adults speak is the saying that keeps popping in my head. I certainly don't consider myself one of the adults in this bad analogy, but I am interested in what the adults like yourselves have to say. Unfortunately all the energy is being spent yelling at the children.

[Saint Lazarus]

I’m fine with it being restarted. There was a lot of baiting and trolling and you that were doing it should be ashamed of yourselves

Fact is, this is an all-time Celtics roster up there with the 80s teams and KG era and Jaylen is a major reason for that. Like BK pointed out and what I’ve been asking for for ages, Jaylen has been put n position to succeed like never before. Coming off curls, limiting his ball handling and need to think and essentially making the game simpler. Joe is providing him with sets that allow Jaylen’s gifts to shine and he’s thriving. Does Joe follow me on here? Might be

If only Joe followed your advice to trade Tatum so Pritchard could be our real franchise player

[Fierce1]

I’m fine with it being restarted. There was a lot of baiting and trolling and you that were doing it should be ashamed of yourselves

Fact is, this is an all-time Celtics roster up there with the 80s teams and KG era and Jaylen is a major reason for that. Like BK pointed out and what I’ve been asking for for ages, Jaylen has been put n position to succeed like never before. Coming off curls, limiting his ball handling and need to think and essentially making the game simpler. Joe is providing him with sets that allow Jaylen’s gifts to shine and he’s thriving. Does Joe follow me on here? Might be

If only Joe followed your advice to trade Tatum so Pritchard could be our real franchise player

[Saint Lazarus]

[BostonCouchGM]

I’m fine with it being restarted. There was a lot of baiting and trolling and you that were doing it should be ashamed of yourselves

Fact is, this is an all-time Celtics roster up there with the 80s teams and KG era and Jaylen is a major reason for that. Like BK pointed out and what I’ve been asking for for ages, Jaylen has been put n position to succeed like never before. Coming off curls, limiting his ball handling and need to think and essentially making the game simpler. Joe is providing him with sets that allow Jaylen’s gifts to shine and he’s thriving. Does Joe follow me on here? Might be

If only Joe followed your advice to trade Tatum so Pritchard could be our real franchise player

Can you imagine??!!

[ballup]

I want to reference a post on the locked thread about Westbrook. I might be biased because I used to be a huge OKC fan when Ibaka moved there from my hometown team in Manresa, Barcelona. I agree WB as a first option would never translate to winning basketball (let's also keep in mind that those OKC teams were trash + George was scared of the Jazz), but I don't think Jaylen has done enough to dethrone WB as a better second option. WB was a great second option to Durant until 2017, and then did some incredible things as a first option. I don't think Jaylen is quite there (maybe if he gives us a ring as a second option then it becomes a discussion).

Also, about the whole insufficient 1st option VS elite 2nd option, this is a really hard debate. Jaylen has never been in a position where he's been asked to be a 1st option. His whole NBA career he was a complementary player, from a bench player to a great 2nd option. I don't think it's fair to judge some players based on their ability to be 2nd options when they've been asked to be 1st options most of their time in the league.

What would have happened to DeRozan or Lillard if they landed on teams that already had a clear 1st option? Would we rate them different than Brown? Would they be better 2nd options?
And the same can be said for Brown, how would his trajectory been if he was forced to act more as a first option? Would he be better (he's an incredible learner, despite his IQ limitations)? Would he be regarded worse, like KAT? (he's an incredible learner, despite his IQ limitations)

Westbrook theoretically could have been a great 2nd option, but the question has never been about the talent. Westbrook has a high cost as he needs the ball in his hands and he tended to act as the first option. Having a heliocentric 2nd option, imo, drains the energy from the rest of the teammates. Guys are much less active as their assignment is to stand around rather than to be involved. There's just only so many guys who can thrive off so little touches and getting them on the same team is exponentially harder. Never being a good shooter limits the spacing and makes the fit harder for players with more inside styles of play.

Jaylen is a much better fit with more types of 1st options for the reasons Westbrook could not. It's hard to tell how Jaylen would develop if he was a first option like how Booker was developed as a lot of his improvements have come from his previous season's failures. I'm not sure this scenario is something anyone can realistically answer.

Lillard I would agree would be the best 2nd option of this bunch. The incredible shooting and scoring prowess allows him to complement a better player than him.

DeRozan was a second option to Lowry. There's a reason they were dubbed the "trash bros". It may not have been as evident, but I don't see how having a better first option would have helped DeRozan step up in the playoffs.

[Fierce1]

Read on Twitter

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[KamikazeK]

I don't think Brown should be all that controversial a subject. Is there anyone here who doesn't think that it's a great luxury having him as our #2? I don't think there's any doubt he and Tatum can get the job done at this point, they almost did last year, and Brown was not the reason why they fell short.

Shouldn't be any drama or disagreement here at all tbh. Who on earth else would you rather have as the #2 besides Brown?

[BK_2020]

I don't think Brown should be all that controversial a subject. Is there anyone here who doesn't think that it's a great luxury having him as our #2? I don't think there's any doubt he and Tatum can get the job done at this point, they almost did last year, and Brown was not the reason why they fell short.

Shouldn't be any drama or disagreement here at all tbh. Who on earth else would you rather have as the #2 besides Brown?

Doncic, KD, Giannis, Embiid, the list is pretty long.

[shackles10]

[RoyceDa59]

Could Brooklyn really have had this guy for KD?

[BK_2020]

Could Brooklyn really have had this guy for KD?

And here it begins. Jaylen Brown literally better than the guy scoring 30 ppg on .662 TS%. No one better than Jaylen Brown other than Tatum in this league. Time to lock this dumb thread, Bisme.

[Spin Move]

Could Brooklyn really have had this guy for KD?

And here it begins. Jaylen Brown literally better than the guy scoring 30 ppg on .662 TS%. No one better than Jaylen Brown other than Tatum in this league. Time to lock this dumb thread, Bisme.

Given the age difference, Boston would probably not trade JB for KD straight up. Jaylen is 7 years 10 months younger then KD that is alot of miles.

[JaMarco]

And the same can be said for Brown, how would his trajectory been if he was forced to act more as a first option? Would he be better (he's an incredible learner, despite his IQ limitations)?

Whats Browns IQ limitations?