This should be the end of the Tatum and Brown era

[shackles10]

Brogdon is the guy I would move first to try to bring in some big man depth or at least someone with legit wing size that could slide into the 4 spot like Tatum does. He's a good player, stand up guy, but his defense, especially on the perimeter, is terrible and he's another iso guy when we already have two of them. If he runs cold on his shot like it is this series he's not as helpful as someone at another position could be when we already have Smart and White and the Jays have the ball a lot too. I get the feeling to move on from Jaylen, but right now he's expiring so wouldn't get as much as he's worth, and once he signs the Supermax he can't be moved for a year. We can't afford to waste another year waiting for that so try to make it work again with the Jays and some tweaks. Hopefully that includes a better head coach who's more ready for the moment as well.

[Bostondave]

Don't break up the Jay's without first getting rid of Smart and replacing him with a true point guard that can provide much needed on court leadership.

Smart has failed as a point guard.....he still wants to be an inefficient scorer and he constantly slows down the offense, forcing the team to play iso ball against set defenses.

I think the problem is that you want your super max players to have the ball and to be able to dribble in traffic and pass out of double teams. You don't want a true point guard taking that ball away.

Thats great for Xbox and Playstation, but best practices are to have a point guard run the floor. A good point guard that can hit cutters, and curlers, pick an rollers, a great passer. Your stars can handle the ball too, but it's primarily the job of a point guard to do that. Certainly not a guard that thinks he's a 3rd scoring option when he's not really.

[Froob]

Don't break up the Jay's without first getting rid of Smart and replacing him with a true point guard that can provide much needed on court leadership.

Smart has failed as a point guard.....he still wants to be an inefficient scorer and he constantly slows down the offense, forcing the team to play iso ball against set defenses.

I think the problem is that you want your super max players to have the ball and to be able to dribble in traffic and pass out of double teams. You don't want a true point guard taking that ball away.

Thats great for Xbox and Playstation, but best practices are to have a point guard run the floor. A good point guard that can hit cutters, and curlers, pick an rollers, a great passer. Your stars can handle the ball too, but it's primarily the job of a point guard to do that. Certainly not a guard that thinks he's a 3rd scoring option when he's not really.

Nobody is moving without the ball or cutting

[fallguy]

I think the problem is that you want your super max players to have the ball and to be able to dribble in traffic and pass out of double teams. You don't want a true point guard taking that ball away.

Thats great for Xbox and Playstation, but best practices are to have a point guard run the floor. A good point guard that can hit cutters, and curlers, pick an rollers, a great passer. Your stars can handle the ball too, but it's primarily the job of a point guard to do that. Certainly not a guard that thinks he's a 3rd scoring option when he's not really.

Nobody is moving without the ball or cutting

I have come to believe this is on purpose.

[Bostondave]

Thats great for Xbox and Playstation, but best practices are to have a point guard run the floor. A good point guard that can hit cutters, and curlers, pick an rollers, a great passer. Your stars can handle the ball too, but it's primarily the job of a point guard to do that. Certainly not a guard that thinks he's a 3rd scoring option when he's not really.

Nobody is moving without the ball or cutting

I have come to believe this is on purpose.

Sure it is. That's when a good coach gets in there and demands people move and not stand on the perimeter waiting to jack a **** 3. Body movement and ball movement is what you get with the Heat and it shows. But then Spo is a good/great coach and has them moving off the ball. These slubs have gotten used to the 3 ball so it'd take a strong coach to change that culture around.

[Bostondave]

How much better and more devastating would the Jays be if they could learn to curl and shoot? Both Jays put the ball on the floor and try to bull their way in, to disastrous results most times when it counts. Tatum has a step up 3, and he's started a sidestep 3, but they're both easy to defend when he's on top with the ball in his hands, just send to double-team and then he puts in on the floor and tries to penetrate, basically looking to get fouled or turns it over.

[Froob]

I’d be all for signing CP3 if he’s bought out. Have serious doubt he can stay healthy but no reason not to get him. He’s like a coach on the court if he can’t play.

[jfs1000d]

What are you going to get for Brown? Trade him to Portland?

I don’t know. I would aerialist consider anything that balances the roster. To me, trading for KAT is the answer. But we’ll see. Team also needs to get back to the defensive


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[jumblin]

Nobody is moving without the ball or cutting

I have come to believe this is on purpose.

Sure it is. That's when a good coach gets in there and demands people move and not stand on the perimeter waiting to jack a **** 3. Body movement and ball movement is what you get with the Heat and it shows. But then Spo is a good/great coach and has them moving off the ball. These slubs have gotten used to the 3 ball so it'd take a strong coach to change that culture around.

I tend to think this is why Brad quit coaching. Brad's offense at Butler and early Celtic years was a very dynamic one with lots of cutting actions, screens, curls etc. When the identity of the team became two lottery picks with stat seeking egos, his offense slowly died out and got replaced with the dull iso ball we see now in order to keep his 'my turn' stars happy. Granted, Tatum and Brown are both talented enough to beat most teams with their iso show, but not good enough to beat really good teams that play team defense.

[fallguy]

I have come to believe this is on purpose.

Sure it is. That's when a good coach gets in there and demands people move and not stand on the perimeter waiting to jack a **** 3. Body movement and ball movement is what you get with the Heat and it shows. But then Spo is a good/great coach and has them moving off the ball. These slubs have gotten used to the 3 ball so it'd take a strong coach to change that culture around.

I tend to think this is why Brad quit coaching. Brad's offense at Butler and early Celtic years was a very dynamic one with lots of cutting actions, screens, curls etc. When the identity of the team became two lottery picks with stat seeking egos, his offense slowly died out and got replaced with the dull iso ball we see now in order to keep his 'my turn' stars happy. Granted, Tatum and Brown are both talented enough to beat most teams with their iso show, but not good enough to beat really good teams that play team defense.

Good points. I don't think we need to rag on Jaylen to also believe we need a different place to invest $50M/year on a second star than a guy who is ISO-heavy, turnover prone and a poor creator. He's a fine player but his weaknesses don't fit well into what we need to do.

To open up the offense and make it more durable against elite defenses we need different schemes, actions and a different second guy to pair with Tatum.

[Parasite]

Yeah I absolutely see why Brad wanted out as coach now. It had to have been soul-sucking to coach this team. Still, he deserves plenty of blame as well. He hired Mazzulla and didn’t get rid of the lazy, soft malcontents.

[Memokerobi]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

[shackles10]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

Jimmy gets to go at his man on an island starting in different positions. Sometimes it's top of the key with lane wide open and shooters moving around and serious threats. Sometimes it's on the right side inside the line with plenty of space to pull up or take it to the rim. Sometimes it's on left side where he usually goes right and into the paint with the same options, but occasionally he goes baseline and does that stop, pump fake, and shot/foul like he did on Horford. When he runs into trouble he has guys who've moved to positions to make the pass easy. He's not out there like the second coming of Magic Johnson, he's making easy reads often to a guy who just has to catch and shoot. I know a lot of this is how we guard him so totally our fault, but a lot is also how their offense is set up by Spo. Our guys dribble into traffic because our lack of movement and starting everything behind the line make it easy for that to happen. They've got to find a guy around 2 other defenders and hope he went to the right spot and often they don't (which is why we have so much pointing at each other when kick outs go to some rich guy in the front row instead of a Celtics player). We see on tv they're fouled with those drives, but they're in a crowd so refs often don't make the call. The ball then goes the other way because our guy is on the ground, recovering, and often not even hustling back because he's complaining. Our guys are not without fault, but we're taking our chances at winning with a streetball/pickup game mentality against those preparing for an NBA championship.

TLDR: Our iso's and their iso's are not the same. Jimmy would be struggling in the Tatum or Brown role playing for Joe in this series.

[jumblin]

Spolestra has done a masterful job exposing the weaknesses of both the Jays. Tatum's biggest weakness is his tendency to stop and hold the ball every single time he receives it. He seems to not even think about what he's going to do until he actually has the ball in his hands. The Heat have absolutely punished him for this, being ready to relentlessly and aggressively swipe at the ball that they know is just going to be sitting still as soon as he catches it.

Mazzulla has done nothing to counter this. They continue to just give the ball to Tatum flatfooted and ask him to try and bull his way through 3 Miami defenders all swiping at the ball. The most success they have had this series is when Tatum brings the ball up the court and his motion prevents the Heat from sitting on him and swiping. I'm guessing the reason they don't do this often is because it puts Tatum in a facilitator role, and he can't get his points that way.

[BK_2020]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

Jimmy gets to go at his man on an island starting in different positions. Sometimes it's top of the key with lane wide open and shooters moving around and serious threats. Sometimes it's on the right side inside the line with plenty of space to pull up or take it to the rim. Sometimes it's on left side where he usually goes right and into the paint with the same options, but occasionally he goes baseline and does that stop, pump fake, and shot/foul like he did on Horford. When he runs into trouble he has guys who've moved to positions to make the pass easy. He's not out there like the second coming of Magic Johnson, he's making easy reads often to a guy who just has to catch and shoot. I know a lot of this is how we guard him so totally our fault, but a lot is also how their offense is set up by Spo. Our guys dribble into traffic because our lack of movement and starting everything behind the line make it easy for that to happen. They've got to find a guy around 2 other defenders and hope he went to the right spot and often they don't (which is why we have so much pointing at each other when kick outs go to some rich guy in the front row instead of a Celtics player). We see on tv they're fouled with those drives, but they're in a crowd so refs often don't make the call. The ball then goes the other way because our guy is on the ground, recovering, and often not even hustling back because he's complaining. Our guys are not without fault, but we're taking our chances at winning with a streetball/pickup game mentality against those preparing for an NBA championship.

TLDR: Our iso's and their iso's are not the same. Jimmy would be struggling in the Tatum or Brown role playing for Joe in this series.

Jimmy's getting single coverage. Tatum sees pic related. That's more meaningful a difference than anything in your post.
It's not some coaching magic that's letting Gabe Vincent, Caleb Martin and Strus to shoot 60% from the three point line. Some of it is their good execution but it's mostly shooting luck.
If our guys were shooting 60% from the three point line we would not be losing 3-0 even if they have 5 Spoelstras on the sidelines.

[return2glory]

What are you going to get for Brown? Trade him to Portland?

I don’t know. I would aerialist consider anything that balances the roster. To me, trading for KAT is the answer. But we’ll see. Team also needs to get back to the defensive


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Would love that. Have wanted this for a few years now, up until recently due to KAT being hurt a lot of late.

[Memokerobi]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

Jimmy gets to go at his man on an island starting in different positions. Sometimes it's top of the key with lane wide open and shooters moving around and serious threats. Sometimes it's on the right side inside the line with plenty of space to pull up or take it to the rim. Sometimes it's on left side where he usually goes right and into the paint with the same options, but occasionally he goes baseline and does that stop, pump fake, and shot/foul like he did on Horford. When he runs into trouble he has guys who've moved to positions to make the pass easy. He's not out there like the second coming of Magic Johnson, he's making easy reads often to a guy who just has to catch and shoot. I know a lot of this is how we guard him so totally our fault, but a lot is also how their offense is set up by Spo. Our guys dribble into traffic because our lack of movement and starting everything behind the line make it easy for that to happen. They've got to find a guy around 2 other defenders and hope he went to the right spot and often they don't (which is why we have so much pointing at each other when kick outs go to some rich guy in the front row instead of a Celtics player). We see on tv they're fouled with those drives, but they're in a crowd so refs often don't make the call. The ball then goes the other way because our guy is on the ground, recovering, and often not even hustling back because he's complaining. Our guys are not without fault, but we're taking our chances at winning with a streetball/pickup game mentality against those preparing for an NBA championship.

TLDR: Our iso's and their iso's are not the same. Jimmy would be struggling in the Tatum or Brown role playing for Joe in this series.

Yeah and on defense he puts a role player on Tatum (mostly Martin) with help and then uses Jimmy to take away Brown, kinda like how Belichick uses his top corner to take away the other team's #2 WR and then bracketing their top receiver. He's just drawing circles around Joe and it is obvious that our players have no more belief in him whatsoever at this point. Obviously this is not saying coaching is the only fault since the players are still not performing, but I think it is the biggest factor

[KL78192020]

What was Jimmy Butler doing when he was 25/26? He was making first round exits on the Bulls, took him a while to figure all this out. Too soon to give up this core.

[10yearWindow]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

Jimmy gets to go at his man on an island starting in different positions. Sometimes it's top of the key with lane wide open and shooters moving around and serious threats. Sometimes it's on the right side inside the line with plenty of space to pull up or take it to the rim. Sometimes it's on left side where he usually goes right and into the paint with the same options, but occasionally he goes baseline and does that stop, pump fake, and shot/foul like he did on Horford. When he runs into trouble he has guys who've moved to positions to make the pass easy. He's not out there like the second coming of Magic Johnson, he's making easy reads often to a guy who just has to catch and shoot. I know a lot of this is how we guard him so totally our fault, but a lot is also how their offense is set up by Spo. Our guys dribble into traffic because our lack of movement and starting everything behind the line make it easy for that to happen. They've got to find a guy around 2 other defenders and hope he went to the right spot and often they don't (which is why we have so much pointing at each other when kick outs go to some rich guy in the front row instead of a Celtics player). We see on tv they're fouled with those drives, but they're in a crowd so refs often don't make the call. The ball then goes the other way because our guy is on the ground, recovering, and often not even hustling back because he's complaining. Our guys are not without fault, but we're taking our chances at winning with a streetball/pickup game mentality against those preparing for an NBA championship.

TLDR: Our iso's and their iso's are not the same. Jimmy would be struggling in the Tatum or Brown role playing for Joe in this series.

Yeah and on defense he puts a role player on Tatum (mostly Martin) with help and then uses Jimmy to take away Brown, kinda like how Belichick uses his top corner to take away the other team's #2 WR and then bracketing their top receiver. He's just drawing circles around Joe and it is obvious that our players have no more belief in him whatsoever at this point. Obviously this is not saying coaching is the only fault since the players are still not performing, but I think it is the biggest factor

This is just wrong, butler has defended Tatum for 123 possessions this series and guarded Jaylen for 59. While it’s true There’s tons of criticism to go around for ALL players the heat are daring anyone else besides Tatum to beat them and no one has. That shows you the threat they think everyone else is.

Jaylen does probably get far too much criticism but this series he’s being asked to go out and take advantage of guys like Martin and Vincent and the others and he hasn’t done it at all. He’s shooting 10% from 3. 10. Now he’s not the only issue at all but butler has not been the primary defender against him.

Tatum is averaging 1.19 ppp in ISO’s jimmy is averaging 1.07.

[shackles10]

Think about it this way, if Miami had one of Tatum or Brown how would they be playing? I'm 100% sure that they'd be killing us because they'd have been put in a position to succeed by their coach. When you build a whole team around drive and kick and the opposing team takes that away, the Celtics have 0 answers and that's why they look like 2 fraud stars out there. The person that's supposed to come up with the answers is not qualified for his job

Jimmy gets to go at his man on an island starting in different positions. Sometimes it's top of the key with lane wide open and shooters moving around and serious threats. Sometimes it's on the right side inside the line with plenty of space to pull up or take it to the rim. Sometimes it's on left side where he usually goes right and into the paint with the same options, but occasionally he goes baseline and does that stop, pump fake, and shot/foul like he did on Horford. When he runs into trouble he has guys who've moved to positions to make the pass easy. He's not out there like the second coming of Magic Johnson, he's making easy reads often to a guy who just has to catch and shoot. I know a lot of this is how we guard him so totally our fault, but a lot is also how their offense is set up by Spo. Our guys dribble into traffic because our lack of movement and starting everything behind the line make it easy for that to happen. They've got to find a guy around 2 other defenders and hope he went to the right spot and often they don't (which is why we have so much pointing at each other when kick outs go to some rich guy in the front row instead of a Celtics player). We see on tv they're fouled with those drives, but they're in a crowd so refs often don't make the call. The ball then goes the other way because our guy is on the ground, recovering, and often not even hustling back because he's complaining. Our guys are not without fault, but we're taking our chances at winning with a streetball/pickup game mentality against those preparing for an NBA championship.

TLDR: Our iso's and their iso's are not the same. Jimmy would be struggling in the Tatum or Brown role playing for Joe in this series.

Jimmy's getting single coverage. Tatum sees pic related. That's more meaningful a difference than anything in your post.
It's not some coaching magic that's letting Gabe Vincent, Caleb Martin and Strus to shoot 60% from the three point line. Some of it is their good execution but it's mostly shooting luck.
If our guys were shooting 60% from the three point line we would not be losing 3-0 even if they have 5 Spoelstras on the sidelines.

That's with 1:13 left in the 3rd. Down the stretch when you really need a bucket Jimmy is getting much position to be successful and it's partly our defense and partly their offensive setup. Our guys don't and won't get rhythm shots to shoot 60%. Yes they have missed wide open shots as well and I'm sure there's a magical screen shot of one on the horizon, but to think that the Heat getting more open looks than us has nothing to do with the difference in percentages and it's merely shooting luck is something Joe might say at the podium.