Celtics Salary and Tax Talk

[Fierce1]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

[phincsfan]

I’m definitely no cap expert but the C’s are already over the luxury tax threshold which means we’re in repeater tax land anyway. Would have to slash major clams to get under that which is unlikely. The only benefit of getting below the 2nd apron is to lift the trade restrictions but even if they do any moves they make will upend the roster during a very good season. Trading Springer saved 15mil which is big so how much can they save if they trade XMan, since he’s pretty non-existent at this point?

2nd apron matters beyond trades, though.

If teams remain in the second apron for any three years in a five-year period, their upcoming first-round draft pick is automatically moved to the end of the first round.

https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nba/what-is-the-second-apron-explanation-nba-bm06/

So, logging one of those 3 years this year hurts a bit, without a plan to get out of it. I'm sure they stay in it since we're contenders and deal with it in the summer, but it's not nothing being just a few $M over.

For example, if a team's above the second apron on the last day of the 2024-25 season, its 2032 first-rounder will be frozen, and the earliest the pick could be traded would be after the 2027-28 season. However, if a team remains above the second apron in at least two of the four years after having its pick frozen, that frozen pick moves to the bottom of the first round, no matter how poorly the team performs

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/2940429

Not sure they're the most up to date links, but there's definitely a repeater 2nd apron penalty.

I was gonna put the draft penalties but I didn’t know when the 2nd apron started at the time. It started for the 23/24 season.

They are definitely repeaters but they can avoid the draft penalties of the 2nd apron rules next year by moving a big contract. They’ll be 2nd apron breakers two years for sure. Also the 2nd apron is projected to be around 208mil next season. So I’m sure Stevens will get us away from the 2nd apron.

[phincsfan]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

I hate to say it but White may get them a better haul of a young player and picks. I did a trade with White last week.

[Fierce1]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

I hate to say it but White may get them a better haul of a young player and picks. I did a trade with White last week.

True.

But I think the chance for another championship is higher with White than Jrue.

[phincsfan]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

I hate to say it but White may get them a better haul of a young player and picks. I did a trade with White last week.

True.

But I think the chance for another championship is higher with White than Jrue.

100%

If they go back to back I was all for running it back since it's not my tax bill. New owner(s) may just be happy avoiding the tax and be a little worse off when going for the dynasty label.

Also, if White is moved, that would definitely open the door for JT and JB going for the individual awards next season.

[phincsfan]

2025 Pre-draft trades after the Celtics go back to back

C's get Kessler

Jazz get Porzingis and 25' 1st rd pick

Gets them to 193mil

Away from the 2nd apron but still about 6mil over the luxury tax threshold.

[Fierce1]

2025 Pre-draft trades after the Celtics go back to back

C's get Kessler

Jazz get Porzingis and 25' 1st rd pick

Gets them to 193mil

Away from the 2nd apron but still about 6mil over the luxury tax threshold.

Trade won't work.

I checked.

[phincsfan]

2025 Pre-draft trades after the Celtics go back to back

C's get Kessler

Jazz get Porzingis and 25' 1st rd pick

Gets them to 193mil

Away from the 2nd apron but still about 6mil over the luxury tax threshold.

Trade won't work.

I checked.

Yup, spotrac said no

[phincsfan]

Pre-draft trade after the season

C's get Kessler, Clarkson, Collins and Clips 25' 2nd

Jazz get KP, White and C's 25' 1st

Only done if Collins is not going to sign his player option for 25/26.

Sign Peterson and Watson to minimum deals (1.5mil each multi year, similar to Walsh's)

Trade XMan

Kessler/Neems
JT/Watson
JB/Sam/Walsh/Peterson
Clarkson/Rico
Jrue/PP

Two open spots should still keep them below the threshold

That roster would be 177mil for 25/26 season. Projected luxury tax threshold for the 25/26 season is 188mil

If Jrue is moved after the 25/26 season Kessler could be given a sizable contract and the core going forward can be JT/JB/Kessler/Sam/PP. Remaining players will have team options.

[ParticleMan]

the guy I would look to trade would be JB.

Love the guy, but it's simply that Tatum, KP, and DW are so unique as players, it's just difficult to bring back someone in that price range or less who could bring anything close to what they do. JB? Sure, it would be a dropoff if we got someone that cost half as much but the dropoff wouldn't be as big as for the others.

Jrue isn't going to fetch much in return, especially given his stats vs salary. I know he could put up bigger numbers but that's not who he is. hopefully he keeps himself in good shape, i think he can play for a while given his body type.

[165bows]

the guy I would look to trade would be JB.

Love the guy, but it's simply that Tatum, KP, and DW are so unique as players, it's just difficult to bring back someone in that price range or less who could bring anything close to what they do. JB? Sure, it would be a dropoff if we got someone that cost half as much but the dropoff wouldn't be as big as for the others.

Jrue isn't going to fetch much in return, especially given his stats vs salary. I know he could put up bigger numbers but that's not who he is. hopefully he keeps himself in good shape, i think he can play for a while given his body type.

Kinda feeling like this is what might happen here. JB was instrumental in the Finals run but my question is what do we get more of going forward - ie, last year's playoff run or some of the other stuff we've seen from him.

[phincsfan]

the guy I would look to trade would be JB.

Love the guy, but it's simply that Tatum, KP, and DW are so unique as players, it's just difficult to bring back someone in that price range or less who could bring anything close to what they do. JB? Sure, it would be a dropoff if we got someone that cost half as much but the dropoff wouldn't be as big as for the others.

Jrue isn't going to fetch much in return, especially given his stats vs salary. I know he could put up bigger numbers but that's not who he is. hopefully he keeps himself in good shape, i think he can play for a while given his body type.

Kinda feeling like this is what might happen here. JB was instrumental in the Finals run but my question is what do we get more of going forward - ie, last year's playoff run or some of the other stuff we've seen from him.

JB's grown up even if he does wear those batman shades. I'd rather have a scorned JB than anyone else.

[165bows]

the guy I would look to trade would be JB.

Love the guy, but it's simply that Tatum, KP, and DW are so unique as players, it's just difficult to bring back someone in that price range or less who could bring anything close to what they do. JB? Sure, it would be a dropoff if we got someone that cost half as much but the dropoff wouldn't be as big as for the others.

Jrue isn't going to fetch much in return, especially given his stats vs salary. I know he could put up bigger numbers but that's not who he is. hopefully he keeps himself in good shape, i think he can play for a while given his body type.

Kinda feeling like this is what might happen here. JB was instrumental in the Finals run but my question is what do we get more of going forward - ie, last year's playoff run or some of the other stuff we've seen from him.

JB's grown up even if he does wear those batman shades. I'd rather have a scorned JB than anyone else.

Yeah I hope he can hit the high gear a bunch going forward. Guy has a huge variance in his career arc coming up, do we see a bunch of 2023 or 2024 his quote unquote legacy will look a lot different depending on which way it goes.

For a second earlier today I was like crap what if they trade JB for Durant at the deadline lol.

[165bows]

Hmm so apparently the cost of a pro sports franchise can be fully depreciated as a business expense, which is an absolutely massive thing financially. That may be ending coming up and rightfully so so sell the team now lol.

https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/sports-team-owners-can-still-win-on-taxes-despite-irs-scrutiny
https://nypost.com/2025/02/06/us-news/trump-asks-gop-leaders-to-end-tax-perks-for-billionaire-sports-owners-and-hedge-funds-to-cover-middle-class-cuts/

[phincsfan]

Hmm so apparently the cost of a pro sports franchise can be fully depreciated as a business expense, which is an absolutely massive thing financially. That may be ending coming up and rightfully so so sell the team now lol.

https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/sports-team-owners-can-still-win-on-taxes-despite-irs-scrutiny
https://nypost.com/2025/02/06/us-news/trump-asks-gop-leaders-to-end-tax-perks-for-billionaire-sports-owners-and-hedge-funds-to-cover-middle-class-cuts/

Wyc - "Dad, I told you it was smart that we sell now. I just couldn't tell you why I knew that".

[chrisab123]

I could see someone like Hauser going and the team trading from the depth of this team in the offseason instead of trading one of the starters. The Celtics should be very active on draft night as this will be a pivotal draft for them. But on the other hand, I can’t see a scenario where they win and trade starters while trying to go for the 3 peat which would get them to 20 titles. I get the financials but that’s reality. They can make up some of the money in merchandising for sure.

[brackdan70]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

Yep. That really looks like the best course of action if they want to significantly reduce the tax bill.

[phincsfan]

I could see someone like Hauser going and the team trading from the depth of this team in the offseason instead of trading one of the starters. The Celtics should be very active on draft night as this will be a pivotal draft for them. But on the other hand, I can’t see a scenario where they win and trade starters while trying to go for the 3 peat which would get them to 20 titles. I get the financials but that’s reality. They can make up some of the money in merchandising for sure.

IMO, the sale will happen after the playoffs. Wyc gave Stevens and Joe one legit chance to go back to back because I bet Pags had no clue about Wyc's intention to sell.

JT and JB are the guys that I don't think will be moved whether they win it again or not.

They'll be 35mil over the projected tax threshold next year (doesn't include Walsh's 2.2mil team option) and 15mil over the 2nd apron which will affect the future 1st round draft pick.

I would think the new owners say "Joe and Brad, with JT and JB, can't we still be very competitive with any combo of KP, Jrue, White, Sam and PP and not necessarily all of them?"

That group of KP, Jrue, White, Sam and PP equal around 107mil.

There's also the case that player(s) will most likely be coming back in any trade which will still add something to the payroll

Good chance that Peterson and/or Watson will be given contracts.

[phincsfan]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

Yep. That really looks like the best course of action if they want to significantly reduce the tax bill.

It wouldn't be enough even if they take nothing back. They still have a team option decision on Walsh for 2.2mil. Minus Jrue and picking up Walsh's TO puts them at around 193mil with 10 players under contract. It's gonna have to be a combo of players to get under.

[brackdan70]

If the Cs really want to go under the 2nd apron, Jrue will have to go in the summer.

Yep. That really looks like the best course of action if they want to significantly reduce the tax bill.

It wouldn't be enough even if they take nothing back. They still have a team option decision on Walsh for 2.2mil. Minus Jrue and picking up Walsh's TO puts them at around 193mil with 10 players under contract. It's gonna have to be a combo of players to get under.

I personally don’t think they will get under the tax next season, but reducing the bill will be important I assume. They can then easily get under in 26/27.
The 2nd apron will be 207ish. They can get under that with a Jrue trade no problem.