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Trade Ideas Thread

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Re: Odg: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#401 » by kf96 » Wed Aug 6, 2014 9:05 pm

GreenMachine wrote:
kf96 wrote:Hey Celtics fans,
what do you this aboit this trade KO, Green and LAC '15 1st rd pick for Monroe.


I think that is a fare trade... I have no problem giving up those assets... however... I don't want to pay Monroe what he wants. I think the Piston's offer(s) are more then fare... if Monroe wants more... I have no interest (and apparently neither does any of the 29 other NBA GMs).

I dont this that he acctually want max. He didnt accapt SVGs offer because he dont want to be in Detroit with long term contract.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#402 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Aug 6, 2014 9:08 pm

kf96 wrote:Hey Celtics fans,
what do you this aboit this trade KO, Green and LAC '15 1st rd pick for Monroe.

Im down for that, I personally would prefer Sully, Green and the Clips pick but your deal is good.
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Re: Odg: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#403 » by GreenMachine » Wed Aug 6, 2014 9:15 pm

kf96 wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
kf96 wrote:Hey Celtics fans,
what do you this aboit this trade KO, Green and LAC '15 1st rd pick for Monroe.


I think that is a fare trade... I have no problem giving up those assets... however... I don't want to pay Monroe what he wants. I think the Piston's offer(s) are more then fare... if Monroe wants more... I have no interest (and apparently neither does any of the 29 other NBA GMs).

I dont this that he acctually want max. He didnt accapt SVGs offer because he dont want to be in Detroit with long term contract.


He should just take his QO then.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#404 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Aug 6, 2014 10:41 pm

ryaningf wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote: The issue remains building a team beyond this season. Smart's best position to take advantage of his skills remains PG. Rondo is iffy at best to stay beyond this year if we can't add enough talent to become a contender quickly. Understandably so. Rondo is in his prime. He doesn't want to waste his years. Try as he has, Danny has not been able to do this yet. And I don't see any free agents that we can bring in to change that status.


You're confusing the issue by the way you're framing it and then you're treating your assumptions like they're facts. (I.E., Smart's best position remains PG. How so, he hasn't even played 1 effing game. OR; Rondo's iffy at best to stay beyond this year. Who says?). You treat Smart like the heir apparent and Rondo as yesterday's news because we can't put talent around him. What you aren't considering is that if Smart's so talented why can't we (1) pair him with Rondo; (2) trade him for talent to pair with Rondo.

Let's keep things simple. Smart has a lot to prove as all rookies do. The best way to develop him isn't to hand him the PG position, it's to make him go out and take it. He's been a SG/SF most of his life and has transitioned to combo guard lately. He's got a lot of opportunity on this team to be both an off-the-ball and on-ball threat this year (no need to project years into the future, it's part of the way you're framing this issue to show the conclusion you prefer). There's is literally no reason we need to move Rondo to create better circumstances in which for Smart to thrive. In fact, there are a lots of reasons why having Rondo in tow accelerates Smart's progress. The only reason you and others want to move Rondo and give the keys to Smart has nothing to do with what's best for the Cs or Smart or Rondo and everything to do with your psychological preference for a "direction". But sometimes the best move is no move at all and that's where we find ourselves now. It's wait-and-see time, your psychological preferences just have to suck it up.

humblebum wrote:Not saying Smart couldn't learn a lot from Rondo, but you're underselling Smart if you consider him less than exceptionally intelligent. Kids basketball IQ is really really high. He's just the anti Rondo though in terms of being personable and aggressive looking to score.


I've said this to you before, but you've never really responded: if Smart is so high in BBIQ then why are his recognized weaknesses classed under "decision-making"? Even if you say that it's his competitiveness that overrides his intelligence and causes him to make bad decisions under duress in the heat of battle, you have to admit that if pressure causes him to make erratic decisions then he still has a lot to learn, right? Rondo's cool detachment might not make him the rah-rah leader-type but what it does allow him is the ability to make intelligent split second decisions while under duress, in the exact same situations in which Smart's intelligence malfunctions. Again, this is why I continue to claim that a Rondo/Smart pairing makes great sense and why I continue to class Smart as a SG until further notice--the ability to make intelligent decision under duress, the ability to not allow your competitiveness hijack your decision making process is THE quintessential PG quality.

Smart is a charismatic leader who gets his guys to believe but until he can harness his competitiveness and still maintain his IQ in the face of adversity his teams will continue to underachieve (which is exactly what happened to him at OK St.). Like I said, charisma is great but what Smart needs to understand is how to win and part and parcel to that is making good decisions and he just ain't there yet. You know who is, though? RONDO.


Jesus H Christmas ryan. Fight fair. I'm not confusing anything with anything. My opinion is that Smart would fit best at PG where his physicality can create mismatches at both ends. You're right he hasn't played a game yet but from what I've seen of him, that's what I think. I didn't think I had to qualify my point of view with "in my opinion" first. I just assume people knew that. This is a strawman argument. I could say the same about your point of view that having rondo here accelerate Smart 's growth. "We haven't ' played one effing game ". How do you know that Rondo will have the effect you think he will have on Smart?

And so we're clear, I never said Rondo is yesterday's news. Talk about putting words in my mouth. I said Rondo is an asset. Just like every other player on the team. I happen to think Rondo might have more value right now than Smart. So I would cash in that chip now because IN MY OPINION, Danny will not be able to bring in enough talent to make this team a championship contender by next offseason. What am I basing this on? Glad you asked. I'm basing this on the fact that Danny was unsuccessful in acquiring a big name talent at the draft or during this offseason. I'm basing it on what this team is scheduled to look like after this season if nothing changes. And I don't assume change. I am also basing it who is available in free agency next year and who might be impactful. Again, these are opinions, not assumptions.

And so now you're going to tell me what the only reason is that I want to move Rondo? ryan, c'mon now. Now who's playing the pop psychologist? You are not in my head. And I don't think you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night like I did. I wouldn't waste any time concerning yourself with any of my preferences, psychological or otherwise. And it's not about picking a direction. It's solely about maximizing your assets. You think it's time to wait. I don't think we're waiting on anything in particular
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#405 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Aug 6, 2014 10:50 pm

KJandHondo35 wrote:
kf96 wrote:Hey Celtics fans,
what do you this aboit this trade KO, Green and LAC '15 1st rd pick for Monroe.

Im down for that, I personally would prefer Sully, Green and the Clips pick but your deal is good.


Actually, I'd see if they wanted Rondo instead. I would like to use those assets in other deals in the future.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#406 » by Ed Pinkney » Thu Aug 7, 2014 1:15 am

If you attached a draft pick or two to the eleven odd million that Bass and Bogan's salary make, what sort of player do you think the Celtics could get back?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#407 » by KJandHondo35 » Thu Aug 7, 2014 1:27 am

bucknersrevenge wrote:
KJandHondo35 wrote:
kf96 wrote:Hey Celtics fans,
what do you this aboit this trade KO, Green and LAC '15 1st rd pick for Monroe.

Im down for that, I personally would prefer Sully, Green and the Clips pick but your deal is good.


Actually, I'd see if they wanted Rondo instead. I would like to use those assets in other deals in the future.


I'm with this idea.


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Re: Odg: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#408 » by CelticFaninLBC » Thu Aug 7, 2014 2:07 pm

GreenMachine wrote:
kf96 wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
I think that is a fare trade... I have no problem giving up those assets... however... I don't want to pay Monroe what he wants. I think the Piston's offer(s) are more then fare... if Monroe wants more... I have no interest (and apparently neither does any of the 29 other NBA GMs).

I dont this that he acctually want max. He didnt accapt SVGs offer because he dont want to be in Detroit with long term contract.


He should just take his QO then.


Doubt he leaves $54-60 million on the table...
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#409 » by KGboss » Thu Aug 7, 2014 2:28 pm

He doesnt want to be in Detroit anymore. I think it's very possible he leaves that money on the table.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#410 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Aug 7, 2014 4:28 pm

So what happens to Monroe if he doesn't sign his QO AND doesn't sign an extension?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#411 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 4:34 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:So what happens to Monroe if he doesn't sign his QO AND doesn't sign an extension?


He doesn't play in the NBA next season.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#412 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Aug 7, 2014 4:37 pm

GreenMachine wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:So what happens to Monroe if he doesn't sign his QO AND doesn't sign an extension?


He doesn't play in the NBA next season.


Wow. And so would the same process start all over next year then if that happens? Or would he become a free agent?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#413 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 4:47 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:So what happens to Monroe if he doesn't sign his QO AND doesn't sign an extension?


He doesn't play in the NBA next season.


Wow. And so would the same process start all over next year then if that happens? Or would he become a free agent?


I'm not sure, good question... but in reality there is almost no way it comes to that anyway.

Basically, Monroe is not under contract for next season, however his rights are controlled by the Pistons. My guess is that nothing changes and he would still be a RFA next offseason. Someone else will surely jump in with more clarity... but again... this aint gonna happen.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#414 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 4:52 pm

Makes me wonder why the NBA doesn't have arbitration...
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#415 » by KGboss » Thu Aug 7, 2014 5:58 pm

Monroe and Bledsoe will be decided on by seasons start. You can put money on that.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#416 » by 165bows » Thu Aug 7, 2014 6:14 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:So what happens to Monroe if he doesn't sign his QO AND doesn't sign an extension?


He doesn't play in the NBA next season.


Wow. And so would the same process start all over next year then if that happens? Or would he become a free agent?


Well, It's not that dramatic. I was curious what happened so I looked it up. The QO expires on Oct. 1 but can be extended to the following March. If Monroe waited out all season, he would be unrestricted as a FA next summer since he's been in the league for four years (he would still be RFA if he had three years' service or less).

But he can still sign an offer sheet from any team at any time, forcing Detroit to match or let him walk, even if (highly unlikely) it drags on into December or whenever. So he can still pursue deals with other teams whenever, it's just that his options are limited at this point.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#417 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 6:21 pm

165bows wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
He doesn't play in the NBA next season.


Wow. And so would the same process start all over next year then if that happens? Or would he become a free agent?


Well, It's not that dramatic. I was curious what happened so I looked it up. The QO expires on Oct. 1 but can be extended to the following March. If Monroe waited out all season, he would be unrestricted as a FA next summer since he's been in the league for four years (he would still be RFA if he had three years' service or less).

But he can still sign an offer sheet from any team at any time, forcing Detroit to match or let him walk, even if (highly unlikely) it drags on into December or whenever. So he can still pursue deals with other teams whenever, it's just that his options are limited at this point.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44


Thanks 165! My only question is the definition of "been in the league for four years" - is this based on years since he was drafted -or- years of service? Because if it's the latter, I'm not sure sitting out a year actually qualifies as a 'year of service' -?

I tried to look it up in the cbafaq but didn't have any luck. I did find this though:

If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.


So I read this to mean that even if he sits out a full year, all Detroit has to do is submit a new QO and he remains a RFA. If I am reading that correctly... what you said above about '4 years of service = Unrestricted FA' is not actually true? Right?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#418 » by 165bows » Thu Aug 7, 2014 6:30 pm

GreenMachine wrote:
165bows wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Wow. And so would the same process start all over next year then if that happens? Or would he become a free agent?


Well, It's not that dramatic. I was curious what happened so I looked it up. The QO expires on Oct. 1 but can be extended to the following March. If Monroe waited out all season, he would be unrestricted as a FA next summer since he's been in the league for four years (he would still be RFA if he had three years' service or less).

But he can still sign an offer sheet from any team at any time, forcing Detroit to match or let him walk, even if (highly unlikely) it drags on into December or whenever. So he can still pursue deals with other teams whenever, it's just that his options are limited at this point.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44


Thanks 165! My only question is the definition of "been in the league for four years" - is this based on years since he was drafted -or- years of service? Because if it's the latter, I'm not sure sitting out a year actually qualifies as a 'year of service' -?

I tried to look it up in the cbafaq but didn't have any luck. I did find this though:

If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.


So I read this to mean that even if he sits out a full year, all Detroit has to do is submit a new QO and he remains a RFA. If I am reading that correctly... what you said above about '4 years of service = Unrestricted FA' is not actually true? Right?


Well I think this part indicates it's not an option to be a RFA if he sits out since next summer wouldn't be 'after his 4th season.'

Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 49). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend his rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.


Seems like the default is UFA if it doesn't fit the RFA criteria.
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#419 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 6:36 pm

165bows wrote:
GreenMachine wrote:
165bows wrote:
Well, It's not that dramatic. I was curious what happened so I looked it up. The QO expires on Oct. 1 but can be extended to the following March. If Monroe waited out all season, he would be unrestricted as a FA next summer since he's been in the league for four years (he would still be RFA if he had three years' service or less).

But he can still sign an offer sheet from any team at any time, forcing Detroit to match or let him walk, even if (highly unlikely) it drags on into December or whenever. So he can still pursue deals with other teams whenever, it's just that his options are limited at this point.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44


Thanks 165! My only question is the definition of "been in the league for four years" - is this based on years since he was drafted -or- years of service? Because if it's the latter, I'm not sure sitting out a year actually qualifies as a 'year of service' -?

I tried to look it up in the cbafaq but didn't have any luck. I did find this though:

If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.


So I read this to mean that even if he sits out a full year, all Detroit has to do is submit a new QO and he remains a RFA. If I am reading that correctly... what you said above about '4 years of service = Unrestricted FA' is not actually true? Right?


Well I think this part indicates it's not an option to be a RFA if he sits out since next summer wouldn't be 'after his 4th season.'

Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 49). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend his rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.


Seems like the default is UFA if it doesn't fit the RFA criteria.


HU? That is confusing.

"Well I think this part indicates it's not an option to be a RFA if he sits out since next summer wouldn't be 'after his 4th season.'"

Don't you mean the exact opposite? He WOULD be a RFA because if he sits out... he would still only have 4 years of service... it would be "'after his 4th season." -?

I think the quote I pulled is pretty clear...

If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.


That seems to describe exactly this situation... and means that if Detroit offers another QO next offseason... he would be a RFA. No?
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Re: Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#420 » by GreenMachine » Thu Aug 7, 2014 6:41 pm

"It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts"

So it's not actually about years of service or years since the draft... it's about his contract. Even if he sat out 5 years... his next contract would be "following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts".

I could be wrong... but the way I read it if Detroit offers another QO next offseason... he is a RFA.

But again... all of this is moot because it will never get to that point IMHO.

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