Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[Froob]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, I would probably do it. JB just doesn't play winning basketball. And doesn't fit well with Tatum. We're boxed into a corner, having to pay JB this $300 mil contract, that he is not good enough to get. And that will leave not enough $ left over (once we give Tatum his supermax in 2024) to pay enough good role players. So mine as well get a good return for JB now, if we can.

Kind of depends who we take with that 3rd pick, though. Perhaps you turn around and flip the 3rd pick for Siakam. Just not sure if a Smart/Simons/Tatum/Siakam/Rob starting 5 has enough shooting. Perhaps you flip Smart in a separate deal - either for a different PG, or you move White to starting PG..

Who is the best big in that draft? Should be that guy.

You’d probably want Miller or Scoot. I’m not sure there’s a big worth taking at 3.

[Hal14]

Brown for Siakam (probably 3-team with POR).

Maybe expand that deal to send Brogdon out and take Simons back, so we can get younger and a little more individual shot creation on the perimeter to make up for loss of Brown there.

Smart to LAC for Norm Powell. They need a PG, we can move White to that spot and go with a floor spacing SG (Powell refularly at 40% plus).

Try to leverage the salary slot of S&T with Grant somewhere else to get Royce ONeale from BRK. I think Hauser would be fair value to send them and help them get below the tax. And maybe a 2nd to the third team that helps us by doing S&T for Grant.

White / Pritchard
Powell / Simons
Tatum / ONeale
Siakam / Gallinari
RWilliams / Horford / Muscala

What does Siakam give us that improves this team dramatically?

He's similar in ability/talent to Brown, but plays with better IQ, better decision making. Lower usage %, higher assist % than JB, which means we'd have better ball movement, less dribbling, less iso. None of the last 18 NBA champions have had 2 stars with usage % over 30 and assist % under 25. Tatum and Brown both have usage over 30 and assist % under 25. So we're unlikely to win a title with them. Siakam meanwhile has a usage % well below 30 and an assist % much higher than JB.

Also, if we look at the last 18 teams to win a title and we look at the average age of their 2 best players, we get 29.4. During next year's playoffs, Tatum/Brown will have an average age of just 26.5, though, well below that 29.4 number. Siakam will be 30 during next year's playoffs, though - 3 years older than JB. The average age of Tatum/Siakam during next year's playoffs will be 28, which is much closer to that 29.4 number. Plus, Siakam has won a title already - and was a key player on that 2019 raptors championship team. It's very hard to win a title if you have 0 players on your team with experience winning a championship - Siakam would change that.

It would make our rebounding better.

It would make us bigger, with Tatum playing the 3 and Siakam at the 4. As opposed to Brown at the 3 and Tatum at the 4.

[darrendaye]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, I would probably do it. JB just doesn't play winning basketball. And doesn't fit well with Tatum. We're boxed into a corner, having to pay JB this $300 mil contract, that he is not good enough to get. And that will leave not enough $ left over (once we give Tatum his supermax in 2024) to pay enough good role players. So mine as well get a good return for JB now, if we can.

Kind of depends who we take with that 3rd pick, though. Perhaps you turn around and flip the 3rd pick for Siakam. Just not sure if a Smart/Simons/Tatum/Siakam/Rob starting 5 has enough shooting. Perhaps you flip Smart in a separate deal - either for a different PG, or you move White to starting PG..

Who is the best big in that draft? Should be that guy.

You’d probably want Miller or Scoot. I’m not sure there’s a big worth taking at 3.

Drafting Miller moves me one step further to fulfilling my dream of moving Tatum to SG.

[Marvel]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, I would probably do it. JB just doesn't play winning basketball. And doesn't fit well with Tatum. We're boxed into a corner, having to pay JB this $300 mil contract, that he is not good enough to get. And that will leave not enough $ left over (once we give Tatum his supermax in 2024) to pay enough good role players. So mine as well get a good return for JB now, if we can.

Kind of depends who we take with that 3rd pick, though. Perhaps you turn around and flip the 3rd pick for Siakam. Just not sure if a Smart/Simons/Tatum/Siakam/Rob starting 5 has enough shooting. Perhaps you flip Smart in a separate deal - either for a different PG, or you move White to starting PG..

Who is the best big in that draft? Should be that guy.

You’d probably want Miller or Scoot. I’m not sure there’s a big worth taking at 3.

I'm good with Miller

[La Flame]

White needs to be the PG, he's a lot better thsn Smart.
Smart for myles Turner?

[Captain_Caveman]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, I would probably do it. JB just doesn't play winning basketball. And doesn't fit well with Tatum. We're boxed into a corner, having to pay JB this $300 mil contract, that he is not good enough to get. And that will leave not enough $ left over (once we give Tatum his supermax in 2024) to pay enough good role players. So mine as well get a good return for JB now, if we can.

Kind of depends who we take with that 3rd pick, though. Perhaps you turn around and flip the 3rd pick for Siakam. Just not sure if a Smart/Simons/Tatum/Siakam/Rob starting 5 has enough shooting. Perhaps you flip Smart in a separate deal - either for a different PG, or you move White to starting PG..

Jaylen is an expiring contract who would leave Portland in a year. Not a chance.

[hugepatsfan]

Brown for Siakam draws fine reviews on the main board.

Smart for Huerter got the nod of approval from someone in the SAC forum.

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

What 3&D SF/PF type could we get for some combination of Grant Williams S&T, Pritchard/Hauser/Gallinari/Muscala and future picks? Someone like that would be the perfect guy to round out that rotation.

[djFan71]

Brown for Siakam draws fine reviews on the main board.

Smart for Huerter got the nod of approval from someone in the SAC forum.

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

What 3&D SF/PF type could we get for some combination of Grant Williams S&T, Pritchard/Hauser/Gallinari/Muscala and future picks? Someone like that would be the perfect guy to round out that rotation.

SloMo. Not sure MIN would without an overpay tho

[bucknersrevenge]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, I would probably do it. JB just doesn't play winning basketball. And doesn't fit well with Tatum. We're boxed into a corner, having to pay JB this $300 mil contract, that he is not good enough to get. And that will leave not enough $ left over (once we give Tatum his supermax in 2024) to pay enough good role players. So mine as well get a good return for JB now, if we can.

Kind of depends who we take with that 3rd pick, though. Perhaps you turn around and flip the 3rd pick for Siakam. Just not sure if a Smart/Simons/Tatum/Siakam/Rob starting 5 has enough shooting. Perhaps you flip Smart in a separate deal - either for a different PG, or you move White to starting PG..

Jaylen is an expiring contract who would leave Portland in a year. Not a chance.

I keep coming back to Houston and Atlanta for him in terms of what his role would be, what he would want from the city. Those 2 seem to be good fits.

[BK_2020]

Brown for Siakam draws fine reviews on the main board.

Smart for Huerter got the nod of approval from someone in the SAC forum.

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

What 3&D SF/PF type could we get for some combination of Grant Williams S&T, Pritchard/Hauser/Gallinari/Muscala and future picks? Someone like that would be the perfect guy to round out that rotation.

Huerter gives this team something we haven't had since...Ray Allen? A guy who can come off a screen, stop on a dime, square up and shoot, all in one motion.

[Cricket23]

Huerter does not have the value of Smart. Atlanta offered Huerter and Reddish, when Reddish had value, and Boston turned it down. Nothing has changed. White had a great season, don't push it by making him the starting PG, you will be disappointed.

Siakam does not have the value of Brown.

These trades are poor for Boston.

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Read on Twitter

There’s a lot of truth to this, but it’s more fit than anything else with JB and only for right deal.

If JB truly accepted his limitations and played only to his strengths within the offense on lower usage he’d be more valuable to us and I would be happier keeping him.

[Fencer reregistered]

My concern with re-signing Jaylen is that he becomes untradeable once he gets the money. He has a bad knee that's not getting better. His bbiq hasn't improved in 7 years.

But if you're trying to compete right now you probably aren't getting anyone who can come in and replace what he does. Maybe if you think he's an A- and you could get two or three B to B+ guys for him then you could work something out. Like if Brooklyn wanted to consolidate and you could get Bridges and Claxton or something. Maybe a three way that ends up with Jaylen in Atlanta and the Celtics get Collins, Bogi, and a piece from another team.

Maybe you do Brown for Simons and #3 and then flip #3 to someone else for a win now piece.

Siakam seems like the most plausible replacement for Brown because he has one year left on his deal too. However, just can't see JB getting dealt with Tatum wanting JB back...

The bigger problem is Joe and the excessive reliance on 3's.

I posted this in a different thread, but apparently it needs to go here as well..

we shot 37.7% from 3 and 56.7% from 3.

Now, if we take those numbers and say that hypothetically we could either shoot all 2's or all 3's to see which one is best. 37.7 x 3 = 113.1 points. 56.7 x 2 = 113.4.

Ironically, they both come out to be basically the same amount of points!

We were 5th in the league in 2 pt %, 6th in the league in 3 pt %. So we were basically just as efficient (in terms of our ranking in the league) from 3 as we were from 2. And we actually shot MORE 2's than 3's (per 100 possessions, we took 46.2 shots from 2 and 42.6 shots from 3.)

The result of all of this, was finishing 2nd in the league in points per 100 possessions.

If we were like 1st in 2 pt %, 30th in 3 pt %, while taking WAY more 3's than 2's and had a bottom 10 ranked offense in the league, I could see an argument here. But that's NOT the case. In fact, the opposite is true. We were 5th in 2 pt %, 6th in 3 pt %, took slightly MORE 2's than we did 3's and had the #2 offense in the league.

When you look at the data objectively, taking too many 3's is not the issue here.

That's not irony, it's good game theory -- on the opponents' part.

[Fencer reregistered]

Brown for Siakam (probably 3-team with POR).

Maybe expand that deal to send Brogdon out and take Simons back, so we can get younger and a little more individual shot creation on the perimeter to make up for loss of Brown there.

Smart to LAC for Norm Powell. They need a PG, we can move White to that spot and go with a floor spacing SG (Powell refularly at 40% plus).

Try to leverage the salary slot of S&T with Grant somewhere else to get Royce ONeale from BRK. I think Hauser would be fair value to send them and help them get below the tax. And maybe a 2nd to the third team that helps us by doing S&T for Grant.

White / Pritchard
Powell / Simons
Tatum / ONeale
Siakam / Gallinari
RWilliams / Horford / Muscala

What does Siakam give us that improves this team dramatically?

He's similar in ability/talent to Brown, but plays with better IQ, better decision making. Lower usage %, higher assist % than JB, which means we'd have better ball movement, less dribbling, less iso. None of the last 18 NBA champions have had 2 stars with usage % over 30 and assist % under 25. Tatum and Brown both have usage over 30 and assist % under 25. So we're unlikely to win a title with them. Siakam meanwhile has a usage % well below 30 and an assist % much higher than JB.

Also, if we look at the last 18 teams to win a title and we look at the average age of their 2 best players, we get 29.4. During next year's playoffs, Tatum/Brown will have an average age of just 26.5, though, well below that 29.4 number. Siakam will be 30 during next year's playoffs, though - 3 years older than JB. The average age of Tatum/Siakam during next year's playoffs will be 28, which is much closer to that 29.4 number. Plus, Siakam has won a title already - and was a key player on that 2019 raptors championship team. It's very hard to win a title if you have 0 players on your team with experience winning a championship - Siakam would change that.

It would make our rebounding better.

It would make us bigger, with Tatum playing the 3 and Siakam at the 4. As opposed to Brown at the 3 and Tatum at the 4.

As good as some of the other points sound, "Let's get older so we have more chance of winning championships" seems like a correlation too far.

[Cricket23]

https://sportsnaut.com/toronto-raptors-pascal-siakam-declining-trade-value/

[Larry_Russell]

Brown for Siakam (probably 3-team with POR).

Maybe expand that deal to send Brogdon out and take Simons back, so we can get younger and a little more individual shot creation on the perimeter to make up for loss of Brown there.

Smart to LAC for Norm Powell. They need a PG, we can move White to that spot and go with a floor spacing SG (Powell refularly at 40% plus).

Try to leverage the salary slot of S&T with Grant somewhere else to get Royce ONeale from BRK. I think Hauser would be fair value to send them and help them get below the tax. And maybe a 2nd to the third team that helps us by doing S&T for Grant.

White / Pritchard
Powell / Simons
Tatum / ONeale
Siakam / Gallinari
RWilliams / Horford / Muscala

What does Siakam give us that improves this team dramatically?

Playmaking And the abioity to attack the rim without dropping the ball.

I dont like the trades proposed though.

Simple

Brown for simons and 3 and 23
#3 and brogdon for siakam

[BK_2020]

What does Siakam give us that improves this team dramatically?

He's similar in ability/talent to Brown, but plays with better IQ, better decision making. Lower usage %, higher assist % than JB, which means we'd have better ball movement, less dribbling, less iso. None of the last 18 NBA champions have had 2 stars with usage % over 30 and assist % under 25. Tatum and Brown both have usage over 30 and assist % under 25. So we're unlikely to win a title with them. Siakam meanwhile has a usage % well below 30 and an assist % much higher than JB.

Also, if we look at the last 18 teams to win a title and we look at the average age of their 2 best players, we get 29.4. During next year's playoffs, Tatum/Brown will have an average age of just 26.5, though, well below that 29.4 number. Siakam will be 30 during next year's playoffs, though - 3 years older than JB. The average age of Tatum/Siakam during next year's playoffs will be 28, which is much closer to that 29.4 number. Plus, Siakam has won a title already - and was a key player on that 2019 raptors championship team. It's very hard to win a title if you have 0 players on your team with experience winning a championship - Siakam would change that.

It would make our rebounding better.

It would make us bigger, with Tatum playing the 3 and Siakam at the 4. As opposed to Brown at the 3 and Tatum at the 4.

As good as some of the other points sound, "Let's get older so we have more chance of winning championships" seems like a correlation too far.

It's an age difference of 2 years and 6 months. However Siakam being larger and his game being predicated on his size more than his athleticism is likely to age more gracefully than Jaylen Brown whose game is 99% about athleticism and tough shotmaking from the legs.

[MaxwellSmart]

Sadly I think you have to trade Brown...I mean, paying him 300 Milllion is insane...Dude can't dribble to save his life.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Some Houston blog suggested KPJ, Jabari Smith, 4 for Jaylen..

They’re not going to deal him, there are too many reasons they can manufacture to run it back. Tatum was hurt, Brogdon was hurt, Rob was sick.

[Fierce1]

Some Houston blog suggested KPJ, Jabari Smith, 4 for Jaylen..

They’re not going to deal him, there are too many reasons they can manufacture to run it back. Tatum was hurt, Brogdon was hurt, Rob was sick.

So true.

And why would the Celtics want young inexperienced players for JB when the Celts are gunning for Banner 18?


If and only if there is that deal the Celts can't refuse and it's also what JB wants, Cs are going to trade JB for a veteran star player who's in his prime.

Lottery pick and young players only sets back the Celtics at this point in time.