Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman
SuperDeluxe wrote:NL41 wrote:You're in for a big surprise
Judging by your constant ignoring of a lot of issues pointed out to you in this thread, there's no one in for a bigger surprise than you. We've seen this movie before. That being said, I'm sure you'll somehow find a way to spin the whole thing to show you were right (even if Smart spends the whole season in the NBDL).
Smart will be the sub. Book it.
SichtingLives wrote:It is true this board has gotten way ahead of themselves with Smart. I'm willing to give him time to develop while others are more content with being drunken soothsayers. He's a rookie with upside and already has all the G. Wallace intangibles (props to whoever pointed that out) but truthfully thats all he has right now. Making a few threes here and there and driving to the basket won't change that, he needs to develop his scoring game and that will take time.
Too many people invent an agenda and run backwards from it (or deny they ever created it outright) when they are clearly wrong. That's cowardly. Just take it on the chin, say "you know, maybe I was getting a little carried away" and nobody will care. But own it, don't deny or run from it because all these words don't disappear.
GuyClinch wrote:Smart is going to be good I think.. But he wasn't good in the first preseason game and certainly not good enough to play SG over Bradley, Thorton and Turner. SHOOTING - its in the very NAME of the position..
Marcus is a PG - he has surprising passing ability and is a natural leader. OTOH he lacks he offensive game NBA shooting guards have. Shooting guards are 'offensive specialists' at the guard spot. Marcus hasn't shown that yet.
Like I said if you think Marcus is going to see major minutes at the SG spot - you are in for a very long year. If the C's want to develop Marcus - they need to trade Rondo. I think that's why they drafted Smart - cheap Rondo replacement. Rondo wants max and now Danny can say no to that...
Thinking Smart should play SG is just like thinking Rondo would play SG if we acquired CP3. It's just not realistic..
NL41 wrote:Watch Smart play off the ball during summer league. He has been practicing coming off of curls, catching, and shooting his whole life. This isn't some Rajon Rondo type who only ever played with the ball in his hands.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pa8XeARVSQ[/youtube]
Word to the wise: Shooting guard doesn't necessarily mean shooting specialist, and combo guards don't always look like this:
Jump to 2 minutes in to hear Stevens talk about Smart playing on and off the ball, and with and without Rondo. He's mentioned it to pretty much everybody but Guy Clinch.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2QCMD6oE-s[/youtube]
soxfan2003 wrote:NL41 wrote:Have you guys even bothered checking out Smart's stats in college?
I seriously doubt it.
You heard we drafted a point guard to replace Rondo, so you imagine Smart must have averaged 9-10 assists in college and maybe 9-10 points per game.
So damn lazy. To declare that Smart is a pure point guard with no offense is to reveal yourself as having relied entirely on a few talking heads for all of your "wisdom" about Smart and his skill set.
And since Smart didn't attack the rim in his First game, you assume that you've been well informed about his lack of scoring ability all along.
So damn lazy.
I have checked out Smart's shooting stats in college many times. Other then Andrew Wiggins, Marcus Smart was probably the player in college I watched the most this year. Besides the big tv games, I watched him on channels like ESPN3.
Based upon watching Smart a lot -- college and nearly all of the summer league games -- and looking at his stats, it's pretty easy for me to conclude that shooting is a relative weakness of his.
I have much more confidence in Andrew Wiggins based upon his age/shooting form/physical characteristics/trends developing into a very good perimeter shooter in 2-4 years than I do Marcus Smart. And I realize Wiggins needs major work shooting as well but it's also evident that he is improving in that area at a solid pace so far.
This all being said, I was still completely in favor of the Celtics drafting Smart at #6..given the rest of the players on the board such as Randle, I would have been upset if the Celtics drafted anyone else at #6.
Perhaps Smart's three best assets on offense are
1) Just from watching him play, I believe he will eventually have a low turnover game by NBA starting PG standards. This is very underrated. He appears to have very strong hands that not only helps him steal the ball but should also help him protect the basketball a bit better then the typical PG.
2) Sees the floor very well.
3) strength.
And you may be the one unaware that Rondo didn't average that many more assists in college then Smart.... As a sophomore Rondo averaged 4.9 assists and Smart 4.8 assists. I doubt Smart ever averages 10 assists per game but that doesn't matter at all to me. A great game from a PG as far as I'm concerned could be 5 assists, 0 or 1 turnovers, causing defensive havoc and scoring very efficiently from all over the court.
Smart's major problem is going to be scoring efficiently from the perimeter. I just hope he works on it and gets good instruction.
ryaningf wrote:Humble, guys like Pierce or Kobe or Wade need the ball in their hands to be successful but asking them to shoulder PG duties just isn't the best use of their abilities. They can do it, but should they? The "should" part is where this discussion is focused. If playing the point renders Smart a version of old Jason Kidd, is that really playing to his strengths?
Playing off the ball doesn't mean he won't get P&R opportunities. All it means is he won't waste his time with mundane PG things. Playing off the ball, having your teammates set you up on occasion for easy shots, those are the things that help a shooter shoot the ball better. FWIW, Smart shot something like 45% on open catch-and-shot situations in college, something that suggests his shooting troubles were a function of him handling the ball too much and taking too many questionable shots.
Rondo's out and Smart's getting an extended look at PG and I'm cool with that, it's the best use of a bad situation. He needs those reps one way or the other and that's what the preseason is for. But I don't think doing so is playing to his strengths, it's more like it's helping to shore up his weaknesses. Playing to his strengths would entail putting him in a position to attack the rim, not asking him to set guys up for jump shot opportunities.
KJandHondo35 wrote:This is really a great discussion btw. Just saying. Great points all around.
jpengland wrote:Bluewhale wrote:jpengland wrote:Rondo next to Smart? Ouch.
Very bad pick. I wouldn't have picked him in the lottery, nevermind 6th.
Ouch. Who would you pick?
Pretty much everybody in the lottery and a couple of others (don't have time to list why for each player).
I understand why people like him and I really do like him from a defensive point of view, but being PG size without elite PG playmaking, not enough explosion/handling to get to the hoop and one of the worst jumpers I have seen in the league means he will simply not score at the NBA level and will be a spacing nightmare as people will just sag off him all day and play help.
Very good college player, bt doesn't have the skillset for the NBA.
15th overall wrote:Not even pretending he's someone else.
SichtingLives wrote:So to the point of OP.....Avery and Thornton are both far superior SG's to Smart, and Turner would be too if he were playing the 2. Not surprisingly this guy hasn't created another account to own up and eat all this crow. Count it off JB!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGq7-B-4ykA[/youtube]
BannersOnly wrote:Anyone who paid attention to Smart in college isn't surprised by his subpar offensive game in the pros.........the kid relied on his "man's body" to dominate inferior/weaker talent in the college game on drives to the hoop and that ain't cutting it in the pro's where everyone has a "man's body". The kid just ain't that good........PERIOD. I said it before the draft and nothing has changed my view so far and I don't expect it to. He is a very good defender(please spare me the "great" defender talk already) and a solid "combo" guard that can give you quality minutes. That's about it. He simply can't shoot and he's not crafty enough like Rondo to find ways to score. People crack me up when they bitch about Rondo's shooting but don't give that guy any credit whatsoever for his ability to find ways to score and get points within 15 feet. Hell, he's Michael Jordan compared to Smart's offensive game.
There's a REASON why we needed a Top 5 pick last year people and a reason why guys like myself were pissed when we failed to tank correctly and land a Top 5 pick at minimum.
sam_I_am wrote:The only shot Smart can take is an uncontested 3. And they will remain uncontested because he is a dreadful shooter. The idea that he isn't driving because he is being coached that way is BS. He just can't do it at NBA level.
Stop making excuses based on theories that make no sense. If you call it like you see it, you must come to conclusion that Marcus Smart has no NBA caliber scoring ability yet. He has a lot of development to do. But like Avery Bradley, he will get playing time because he can play defense at a superior level.
BannersOnly wrote:sam_I_am wrote:The only shot Smart can take is an uncontested 3. And they will remain uncontested because he is a dreadful shooter. The idea that he isn't driving because he is being coached that way is BS. He just can't do it at NBA level.
Stop making excuses based on theories that make no sense. If you call it like you see it, you must come to conclusion that Marcus Smart has no NBA caliber scoring ability yet. He has a lot of development to do. But like Avery Bradley, he will get playing time because he can play defense at a superior level.
I agree with everything you said........except I'll believe his defense is "superior level" when I actually see him put the clamps on a Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook. He is very good defensively but let's not get carried away like far too many people did(and still are) with Avery Bradley's very good(but not GREAT a la Tony Allen) defense.
grandpa surfer wrote:SichtingLives wrote:It is true this board has gotten way ahead of themselves with Smart. I'm willing to give him time to develop while others are more content with being drunken soothsayers. He's a rookie with upside and already has all the G. Wallace intangibles (props to whoever pointed that out) but truthfully thats all he has right now. Making a few threes here and there and driving to the basket won't change that, he needs to develop his scoring game and that will take time.
Too many people invent an agenda and run backwards from it (or deny they ever created it outright) when they are clearly wrong. That's cowardly. Just take it on the chin, say "you know, maybe I was getting a little carried away" and nobody will care. But own it, don't deny or run from it because all these words don't disappear.
Are you caught up now?
bbd24 wrote:KamikazeK wrote:I can't believe people in here are actually passing judgement on Smart's NBA career in the middle of preseason of his rookie year. The kid hasn't even played an actual NBA game yet. Some of you guys are ridiculous.
That's what I'm trying to get at. They're murdering this kid and his shot during his 1st preseason !
It's not logical.
They probably murdered Rondo, Jefferson, Perkins, and Tony Allen during their first preseason games as well. How did that turn out for them ?
Slartibartfast wrote:GuyClinch wrote:That's what I'm trying to get at. They're murdering this kid and his shot during his 1st preseason !
It's not logical.
They don't like the idea that anyone could replace Rondo. So Pressey is the guy for them - a **** Rondo.
What are you talking about?
I don't understand all the outrage/agenda-sniffing over pointing out how bad Smart has been offensively this preseason.
You don't have to be pathetically insecure about Rondo's future to have a problem with Smart shooting and scoring at Phil Pressey's historibad rates all preseason.
