"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[Envelope]

One comparison for Simmons would be Mike Dunleavy, Jr. without any shooting.. Dunleavy had rave reviews coming out of college, was supposedly a do-everything player, and it just didn't translate.

Anyway I'm just frustrated in advance with this team's lotto luck, but with Hield, Bender and Dunn, we could have a lot of trade options on draft night. I think Okafor and Cousins will be the targets..

Oh man... Have you even seen Simmons play? He'll be one of the three most athletic PF's in the league from day one with the handle of a PG. What an atrocious comparison...

Yeah, good point- I mean it in the sense that Dunleavy (partly bc of athleticism) wasn't able to assert himself and influence the game in the same way in the pros, with Simmons it would be more mental/psychological than physical.. It's sort of like observing a similarity between Jeff Green (super-athletic) and Dunleavy- who turned into a really superb role-player, FWIW..

Simmons isn't close to being a top 3 athlete at PF in the NBA. He's just smooth and looks cool dribbling the ball. Not a great leaper, not super quick, and not particularly agile. The power of hype is amazing.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Oh man... Have you even seen Simmons play? He'll be one of the three most athletic PF's in the league from day one with the handle of a PG. What an atrocious comparison...

Yeah, good point- I mean it in the sense that Dunleavy (partly bc of athleticism) wasn't able to assert himself and influence the game in the same way in the pros, with Simmons it would be more mental/psychological than physical.. It's sort of like observing a similarity between Jeff Green (super-athletic) and Dunleavy- who turned into a really superb role-player, FWIW..

Simmons isn't close to being a top 3 athlete at PF in the NBA. He's just smooth and looks cool dribbling the ball. Not a great leaper, not super quick, and not particularly agile. The power of hype is amazing.

Oh the irony... Is Thon better than him too?

Simmons during his pre-season combine set a record for full court sprint and jumped over 40 inches. His second jump is ridiculous and is the reason he scored on so many tip-ins this year. He's an incredible leaper. He's incredibly quick. And he's incredibly agile-- you don't get to the free throw line 11 times a game in a stacked paint without being agile.

Try again, Thon.

[Envelope]

Yeah, good point- I mean it in the sense that Dunleavy (partly bc of athleticism) wasn't able to assert himself and influence the game in the same way in the pros, with Simmons it would be more mental/psychological than physical.. It's sort of like observing a similarity between Jeff Green (super-athletic) and Dunleavy- who turned into a really superb role-player, FWIW..

Simmons isn't close to being a top 3 athlete at PF in the NBA. He's just smooth and looks cool dribbling the ball. Not a great leaper, not super quick, and not particularly agile. The power of hype is amazing.

Oh the irony... Is Thon better than him too?

Simmons during his pre-season combine set a record for full court sprint and jumped over 40 inches. His second jump is ridiculous and is the reason he scored on so many tip-ins this year. He's an incredible leaper. He's incredibly quick. And he's incredibly agile-- you don't get to the free throw line 11 times a game in a stacked paint without being agile.

Try again, Thon.

Don't trust his TEAM combine numbers. Just like Kentucky's every year, LSU's silly numbers will be proven false at the NBA Combine, if Simmons shows up. Anybody can set a record for anything at a team combine, especially if that college is paying the guy to go to school there.

Just look at the Kentucky guys from last year and see how their measurements and athletic numbers went down, almost uniformly.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Simmons isn't close to being a top 3 athlete at PF in the NBA. He's just smooth and looks cool dribbling the ball. Not a great leaper, not super quick, and not particularly agile. The power of hype is amazing.

Oh the irony... Is Thon better than him too?

Simmons during his pre-season combine set a record for full court sprint and jumped over 40 inches. His second jump is ridiculous and is the reason he scored on so many tip-ins this year. He's an incredible leaper. He's incredibly quick. And he's incredibly agile-- you don't get to the free throw line 11 times a game in a stacked paint without being agile.

Try again, Thon.

Don't trust his TEAM combine numbers. Just like Kentucky's every year, LSU's silly numbers will be proven false at the NBA Combine, if Simmons shows up. Anybody can set a record for anything at a team combine, especially if that college is paying the guy to go to school there.

Just look at the Kentucky guys from last year and see how their measurements and athletic numbers went down, almost uniformly.

Then watch him play, and you'll see the same...

[Envelope]

[/b]

Oh the irony... Is Thon better than him too?

Simmons during his pre-season combine set a record for full court sprint and jumped over 40 inches. His second jump is ridiculous and is the reason he scored on so many tip-ins this year. He's an incredible leaper. He's incredibly quick. And he's incredibly agile-- you don't get to the free throw line 11 times a game in a stacked paint without being agile.

Try again, Thon.

Don't trust his TEAM combine numbers. Just like Kentucky's every year, LSU's silly numbers will be proven false at the NBA Combine, if Simmons shows up. Anybody can set a record for anything at a team combine, especially if that college is paying the guy to go to school there.

Just look at the Kentucky guys from last year and see how their measurements and athletic numbers went down, almost uniformly.

Then watch him play, and you'll see the same...

Even Blake Griffin never had a 40" vert leap, and Griffin is a much better leaper than Simmons. You got suckered by fake numbers from a fake combine.
Show me one clip of Simmons flying like a top 3 PF athlete. You can't. All you can do is point to the LSU team page.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Don't trust his TEAM combine numbers. Just like Kentucky's every year, LSU's silly numbers will be proven false at the NBA Combine, if Simmons shows up. Anybody can set a record for anything at a team combine, especially if that college is paying the guy to go to school there.

Just look at the Kentucky guys from last year and see how their measurements and athletic numbers went down, almost uniformly.

Then watch him play, and you'll see the same...

Even Blake Griffin never had a 40" vert leap, and Griffin is a much better leaper than Simmons. You got suckered by fake numbers from a fake combine.
Show me one clip of Simmons flying like a top 3 PF athlete. You can't. All you can do is point to the LSU team page.

Watch him play any game man. Highlight tapes means nothing--theyre biased and I'm not going to waste my time knowing you'll off-handedly dismiss them. He has a legitimate 40 inch vert, you can see it in games. It's a big reason why he grabbed 11 boards a game. He is unbelievably agile, it's why he went to the line 11 times a game against a stacked paint. He's unbelievably quick, his second jump was the best in the NCAA. The eye test backs up the stats.

You can keep closing your eyes and telling me I'm wrong and he's a poor athlete without referencing anything other than your meaningless dismissals. Why don't you show any clip that supports your claim?

Regardless, I'm done taking your bait. I get it, your a troll, Thon is amazing and everyone else sucks. I'm bored of this routine.

[Envelope]

You can't link to one single clip of one single play of Simmons showing elite vertical. You say I'm closing my eyes but you can't show me one clip. You don't even know of one. Because it never happened.

[SmartWentCrazy]

You can't link to one single clip of one single play of Simmons showing elite vertical. You say I'm closing my eyes but you can't show me one clip. You don't even know of one. Because it never happened.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vppqUEa4sMI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T5VJ865MNlI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtpMic3igfg

Ignorance is awesome. Watch him play.

[Envelope]

You can't link to one single clip of one single play of Simmons showing elite vertical. You say I'm closing my eyes but you can't show me one clip. You don't even know of one. Because it never happened.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vppqUEa4sMI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T5VJ865MNlI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtpMic3igfg

Ignorance is awesome. Watch him play.

The first clip is pretty good. He rarely gets his head anywhere near the rim like a top 3 PF athlete.

[fallguy]

I have no use for the college game and come at this from a position of true ignorance but the talk about Simmons' inability to shoot is pretty worrying in 2016.

[pfm]

You can't link to one single clip of one single play of Simmons showing elite vertical. You say I'm closing my eyes but you can't show me one clip. You don't even know of one. Because it never happened.

He's no Thon Maker, that's for sure.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I have no use for the college game and come at this from a position of true ignorance but the talk about Simmons' inability to shoot is pretty worrying in 2016.

This is his weakness, and it's 100% a valid one. Kevin O'Connor posted an interesting article a few months back speculating he's shooting with the wrong hand (he shoots lefty, but is a righty in everything else, finishes more often with his right hand and shows more touch with the right hand)-- it's definitely worth investigating by the team who drafts him. The big question on Simmons is whether his elite skills in other areas can overcome his utter lack of a jump shot.

He will likely never be a true #1 scoring option because of this, but with Stevens system, I'm not sure if you truly need one.

[Gomes3PC]

Thon Maker > tgei

[ddb]

people LOVE to pick apart 19 year old elite prospects. Same thing happened to Karl Anthony Towns last year. I'll admit that even I wasn't sold on KAT's ability to step in and contribute immediately. Now look at him.
Bottom line..Simmons is going to beast in the NBA game.

I'm thrilled with Simmons or Ingram.

I'd imagine that if Danny stays in the draft he'd salivate at a Simmons/Skal or Ingram/Skal combo with the BK/Mavs picks

[MotownMadness]

Don't really know where to put this but I feel as though you guys are going to try your hardest to bring in two stars this offseason. Do you guys think you will be picking up that 12 mil on Amir? I would love to bring him back to Detroit.

[ConstableGeneva]

Don't really know where to put this but I feel as though you guys are going to try your hardest to bring in two stars this offseason. Do you guys think you will be picking up that 12 mil on Amir? I would love to bring him back to Detroit.

If we're not using his non-guaranteed contract to trade for a star, then my best guess is we'll retain him for another year barring any injuries in this postseason (knock on wood).

[Gomes3PC]

people LOVE to pick apart 19 year old elite prospects. Same thing happened to Karl Anthony Towns last year. I'll admit that even I wasn't sold on KAT's ability to step in and contribute immediately. Now look at him.
Bottom line..Simmons is going to beast in the NBA game.

I'm thrilled with Simmons or Ingram.

I'd imagine that if Danny stays in the draft he'd salivate at a Simmons/Skal or Ingram/Skal combo with the BK/Mavs picks

I don't think many people were picking apart Towns. In fact it seemed as the offseason went on, it became clearer and clearer he was the no-brainer #1 pick. Biggest surprise frankly is how aggressive he has become as a scorer and his ability to step out and hit the 3. Those were the two things he didn't have in college. His rebounding, D and soft touch in the post were all readily apparent in college.

I do agree Simmons is getting picked apart a bit much offensively. Lebron cannot shoot to save his life either, but nobody can keep him out of the paint. Simmons drew fouls at absurd rates in college - he's probably not getting that many calls in the NBA but I do think he's going to be a complete handful for most PFs in the NBA.

The big question about his projection is whether he can shore up one of his two major holes. He can be elite without being a good shooter if he becomes a good defender, and he can be elite without being an elite defender if he develops a jumper. Without both, the ceiling gets a bit more limited, but he's still probably good enough to be your #2 piece for a title contender during his prime.

[Envelope]

I have no use for the college game and come at this from a position of true ignorance but the talk about Simmons' inability to shoot is pretty worrying in 2016.

This is his weakness, and it's 100% a valid one. Kevin O'Connor posted an interesting article a few months back speculating he's shooting with the wrong hand (he shoots lefty, but is a righty in everything else, finishes more often with his right hand and shows more touch with the right hand)-- it's definitely worth investigating by the team who drafts him. The big question on Simmons is whether his elite skills in other areas can overcome his utter lack of a jump shot.

He will likely never be a true #1 scoring option because of this, but with Stevens system, I'm not sure if you truly need one.

With Stevens' system, everybody needs to be able to play off the ball and be a threat to shoot at least long 2 point jump shots, preferably 3 pointers. We saw what happened with Rondo here under Stevens, and it wasn't pretty. Team got dramatically better when Rondo was traded.

[Envelope]

people LOVE to pick apart 19 year old elite prospects. Same thing happened to Karl Anthony Towns last year. I'll admit that even I wasn't sold on KAT's ability to step in and contribute immediately. Now look at him.
Bottom line..Simmons is going to beast in the NBA game.

I'm thrilled with Simmons or Ingram.

I'd imagine that if Danny stays in the draft he'd salivate at a Simmons/Skal or Ingram/Skal combo with the BK/Mavs picks

I don't think many people were picking apart Towns. In fact it seemed as the offseason went on, it became clearer and clearer he was the no-brainer #1 pick. Biggest surprise frankly is how aggressive he has become as a scorer and his ability to step out and hit the 3. Those were the two things he didn't have in college. His rebounding, D and soft touch in the post were all readily apparent in college.

I do agree Simmons is getting picked apart a bit much offensively. Lebron cannot shoot to save his life either, but nobody can keep him out of the paint. Simmons drew fouls at absurd rates in college - he's probably not getting that many calls in the NBA but I do think he's going to be a complete handful for most PFs in the NBA.

The big question about his projection is whether he can shore up one of his two major holes. He can be elite without being a good shooter if he becomes a good defender, and he can be elite without being an elite defender if he develops a jumper. Without both, the ceiling gets a bit more limited, but he's still probably good enough to be your #2 piece for a title contender during his prime.

There's also the big question of whether Simmons wants to embrace the grind of getting beat up every night at PF. LeBron doesn't like that grind, and LeBron is 20-30 lbs stronger than Simmons.

I wouldn't be surprised if Simmons tries to declare himself a small forward to avoid the nightly beatings.

[Leprechaun18]

I have no use for the college game and come at this from a position of true ignorance but the talk about Simmons' inability to shoot is pretty worrying in 2016.

This is his weakness, and it's 100% a valid one. Kevin O'Connor posted an interesting article a few months back speculating he's shooting with the wrong hand (he shoots lefty, but is a righty in everything else, finishes more often with his right hand and shows more touch with the right hand)-- it's definitely worth investigating by the team who drafts him. The big question on Simmons is whether his elite skills in other areas can overcome his utter lack of a jump shot.

He will likely never be a true #1 scoring option because of this, but with Stevens system, I'm not sure if you truly need one.

With Stevens' system, everybody needs to be able to play off the ball and be a threat to shoot at least long 2 point jump shots, preferably 3 pointers. We saw what happened with Rondo here under Stevens, and it wasn't pretty. Team got dramatically better when Rondo was traded.

Remember Rondo was coming off an injury. I suspect BS's adapts his system to what players he has. DA has given him a roster full of (pretty good) combo guards and TRexes, so he does what he can with them. I think Simmons will be a good player. I dont think he will be an MVP type player though. He definitely will need a jumpshot.