Celtics 2023-24, Season Thread

[Curmudgeon]

They need more consistent rim protection and players who take care of the ball. Jaylen Brown is a spectacular but fundamentally unsound player who has to go. Horford can't be asked to play 35 minutes. Brogdon is a 5th wheel and is always hurt.

Stevens has his work cut out for him, that's for sure.

[Tyakack]

My before the season prediction was almost right. I said we would finish the 2nd seed and lose in the finals again. 1 game away from being correct.

Idk what this team is gonna do in the offseason. I need to see something major to get excited for this team next year though. You're not gonna sell me on running it back and saying it's gonna be different this time.

[zoyathedestroya]

Sad Trombone Updated List:



Horford is two ECF runs away from surpassing both Karl Malone (193) and John Stockton (182) for the top spot for all-time players.

[GWVan]

I actually woke up this morning relieved it's over. Rooting for this team in the playoffs has been extremely stressful.

One minute they were looking like they pulled it together and the next I'm sitting in the stands in Miami embarrassed and thinking about the other things that I needed to be doing instead of taking two days off and going down to Miami. I swear they kept getting it together just long enough to reel me back in and then break my heart again.

I had to give a toast at 11:00 Saturday night when the were up 9 and turn my back on the game. When I turned around they had blown the lead and ended up having to have a miracle play to save the game.

I'm pretty relaxed today, don't even have my normal 'seasons over blues' because they have infuriated me so much. Don't know what happens this summer but I don't think running it back is an option. Something has to change. The team has been on the cusp for what, 5, 6 years now. I don't see how they close the deal without some changes.

[zoyathedestroya]

How does one define “title window”? 4 of 6 years in ECF, one Finals, no title. Is the six years a title window if you’re only competing for a title but not winning it? Did the title window begin when our top player became the #1 playoff option (2020)? Or does it begin when you actually win the LoB trophy — Warriors started 2015, Bucks in 2021, Lebron/AD Lakers in 2020?

Asking without snark/irony. Just curious about people’s opinion on this.

[Curmudgeon]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

[165bows]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

I think they did, and one thing not mentioned much was how big it was for Miami to have Bam guarding everyone out on the perimeter whenever they wanted.

This team last year was built on elite defensive versatility and this year it wasn't as good. Offense had the same issues in many ways but the D did not look nearly as lock-tite.

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

[Curmudgeon]

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

Well, Horford used to be that player but he's 37. And Timelord was a great defensive player until his knee limited his minutes. They are not enough any more. Alas, I don't see any bigs like Adebayo out there, although there are some interesting possibilities among guys who need to be developed, e.g. Jaylen Duren or Usman Garuba. But I'll settle for half a loaf with Sabonis.

They also need better passers. Didn't some junior high school coach teach Jaylen Brown that you beat a zone by passing the ball, not by trying to dribble through it? Tatum needs to become a better passer; I've given up on Brown ever improving in that area.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[BK_2020]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

I think they did, and one thing not mentioned much was how big it was for Miami to have Bam guarding everyone out on the perimeter whenever they wanted.

This team last year was built on elite defensive versatility and this year it wasn't as good. Offense had the same issues in many ways but the D did not look nearly as lock-tite.

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

Bam is a great perimeter defender for a big but it was disheartening to see Jaylen Brown completely stumped by Bam single coverage. You are a 6'5 wing, presumably a star scorer. You have to pull the ball out, get space, and take advantage of that mismatch.

[hugepatsfan]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

I think they did, and one thing not mentioned much was how big it was for Miami to have Bam guarding everyone out on the perimeter whenever they wanted.

This team last year was built on elite defensive versatility and this year it wasn't as good. Offense had the same issues in many ways but the D did not look nearly as lock-tite.

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

They need a defensive minded assistant coach, or multiple of them. I think we have the personnel to be good on defense, but they need more emphasis on it from the coaching staff. And that's not necessarily a shot at Joe. He's an offensive-minded coach. Pretty sure the scraps of the staff that was leftover had more offensive minded guys as well. So they desperately need to get some emphasis and knowledge on that side of the ball.

[CelticsPride18]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

I think they did, and one thing not mentioned much was how big it was for Miami to have Bam guarding everyone out on the perimeter whenever they wanted.

This team last year was built on elite defensive versatility and this year it wasn't as good. Offense had the same issues in many ways but the D did not look nearly as lock-tite.

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

They need a defensive minded assistant coach, or multiple of them. I think we have the personnel to be good on defense, but they need more emphasis on it from the coaching staff. And that's not necessarily a shot at Joe. He's an offensive-minded coach. Pretty sure the scraps of the staff that was leftover had more offensive minded guys as well. So they desperately need to get some emphasis and knowledge on that side of the ball.

Defense it’s not going back to that level. Horford was a big part of that and he looked washed most of the postseason. Rob can get back to his 2022 form but he’s still unreliable.

[hugepatsfan]

I disagree that Horford looked washed. I think he's aging. I think he's declining. But to me he's still an effective player. I think you have to plan on him being a 20-25 minute guy though vs. consistently over 30 minutes like he was this postseason. MIA was struggling to cobble together minutes behind Bam with Love and Zeller. The Nuggets don't even bother with a backup center when Jokic is out of the game (they just play Jeff Green there). Al's contract is moving donw to the MLE range and that's fine for someone who would be probably the best backup center in the NBA and still capable of giving you 2-big lineups when the situation calls for it.

[165bows]

The team was better last year. It has regressed.

I think they did, and one thing not mentioned much was how big it was for Miami to have Bam guarding everyone out on the perimeter whenever they wanted.

This team last year was built on elite defensive versatility and this year it wasn't as good. Offense had the same issues in many ways but the D did not look nearly as lock-tite.

Something to keep in mind as all these trade proposals are being generated. How many offensive players are out there that are also great versatile defensive guys.

They need a defensive minded assistant coach, or multiple of them. I think we have the personnel to be good on defense, but they need more emphasis on it from the coaching staff. And that's not necessarily a shot at Joe. He's an offensive-minded coach. Pretty sure the scraps of the staff that was leftover had more offensive minded guys as well. So they desperately need to get some emphasis and knowledge on that side of the ball.

Is this even true though? Reports I read (see when White was traded last year) said that the defense last year was Mazzulla’s prime responsibility.

[bucknersrevenge]

This is a great breakdown by @dangercart. Should be required reading here. And it's sobering. A serious reckoning is coming for this and many other franchises this offseason. Especially us in light of the 2 impending SuperMax deals potentially coming down the pike.

https://medium.com/@rbernardoni/boston-celtics-offseason-preview-4997986e3915

Let's not pretend Wyc isn't who he is. He ain't taken no major continuous tax hit for this team (not THIS one!). We are going to have to start playing and developing our less expensive talent in our Top 8-10 and shuttle some other guys out. Before the new CBA, Brad had this team setup nice. Now everything we thought we new about this roster is obsolete in terms of ceiling and in terms of CBA implications. JD Davison probably needs to play next year. Hauser probably needs to play more next year. Gallo/Muscala too. We've got too much expensive talent that we can no longer afford.

This guy has basically jumped the shark. Basically every poster here knew the major extensions looming for Tatum/Brown would pinch the rest of the roster in terms of salary.

Last off-season his big recommendation was they try to land Torrey Craig, then the team went out and spent on Malcolm Brogdon. He seems to think they didn't plan on the new add-ons to the CBA, while not mentioning they came very close to adhering to that model for this year already. They signed gallo and traded for Muscala, a couple of around the edges moves that obviously weren't core to the team.

Fact is they are much more well set up to handle the new CBA than many teams going forward.

Not when you factor in JB's extension raises their salary 25M just to run it back. Then you have Tatum's extension which could raise it another 30M. They are NOT positioned well at all. Under the old cap they were but not now. And if you read, you noticed that all the restrictions were not just monetary in terms of financial penalties. That 2nd apron (which we would most assuredly hit with the Jay's extensions) will drop down on us like a hammer. They can't afford Smart, White, and Brogdon all at 20+M next year.

[bucknersrevenge]

I disagree that Horford looked washed. I think he's aging. I think he's declining. But to me he's still an effective player. I think you have to plan on him being a 20-25 minute guy though vs. consistently over 30 minutes like he was this postseason. MIA was struggling to cobble together minutes behind Bam with Love and Zeller. The Nuggets don't even bother with a backup center when Jokic is out of the game (they just play Jeff Green there). Al's contract is moving donw to the MLE range and that's fine for someone who would be probably the best backup center in the NBA and still capable of giving you 2-big lineups when the situation calls for it.

What this is, is an indictment of Rob who despite all of this, still couldn't get a start over Al and the players had to BEG Joe just to put Rob in. Not sure if Rob's a truthworthy commodity anymore.

[165bows]

This is a great breakdown by @dangercart. Should be required reading here. And it's sobering. A serious reckoning is coming for this and many other franchises this offseason. Especially us in light of the 2 impending SuperMax deals potentially coming down the pike.

https://medium.com/@rbernardoni/boston-celtics-offseason-preview-4997986e3915

Let's not pretend Wyc isn't who he is. He ain't taken no major continuous tax hit for this team (not THIS one!). We are going to have to start playing and developing our less expensive talent in our Top 8-10 and shuttle some other guys out. Before the new CBA, Brad had this team setup nice. Now everything we thought we new about this roster is obsolete in terms of ceiling and in terms of CBA implications. JD Davison probably needs to play next year. Hauser probably needs to play more next year. Gallo/Muscala too. We've got too much expensive talent that we can no longer afford.

This guy has basically jumped the shark. Basically every poster here knew the major extensions looming for Tatum/Brown would pinch the rest of the roster in terms of salary.

Last off-season his big recommendation was they try to land Torrey Craig, then the team went out and spent on Malcolm Brogdon. He seems to think they didn't plan on the new add-ons to the CBA, while not mentioning they came very close to adhering to that model for this year already. They signed gallo and traded for Muscala, a couple of around the edges moves that obviously weren't core to the team.

Fact is they are much more well set up to handle the new CBA than many teams going forward.

Not when you factor in JB's extension raises their salary 25M just to run it back. Then you have Tatum's extension which could raise it another 30M. They are NOT positioned well at all. Under the old cap they were but not now. And if you read, you noticed that all the restrictions were not just monetary in terms of financial penalties. That 2nd apron (which we would most assuredly hit with the Jay's extensions) will drop down on us like a hammer. They can't afford Smart, White, and Brogdon all at 20+M next year.

You seem to be very much complicating the issue among the next few seasons. They def can run it back and stay under the second apron next year. Neither extension starts until after next year.

And again, they barely made any roster logistics this year that would have been impeded if they do go over the second apron. They are absolutely in some of the best shape for next season to handle the changes. They can stay under and keep their deep roster, or they can choose to go over the second apron and it really won't affect them much - same as this year in that they just didn't make many roster moves. They made an MLE signing that had as much impact on-court as if they hadn't made it and they made one tiny trade for depth that ultimately had little impact other than set up more depth for next year.

Never mind that this guy was hugely off this past off season. He was clear they wouldn't spend at all in his big previews and wanted some crappy deep depth wing as the big off-season move they never considered a priority. So yes they will have some issues retaining everyone once both extensions actually kick in but that isn't at all new. But he's lost the pulse and hasn't been on track with their moves since maybe Danny pursued Durant in '16.

[BK_2020]

I disagree that Horford looked washed. I think he's aging. I think he's declining. But to me he's still an effective player. I think you have to plan on him being a 20-25 minute guy though vs. consistently over 30 minutes like he was this postseason. MIA was struggling to cobble together minutes behind Bam with Love and Zeller. The Nuggets don't even bother with a backup center when Jokic is out of the game (they just play Jeff Green there). Al's contract is moving donw to the MLE range and that's fine for someone who would be probably the best backup center in the NBA and still capable of giving you 2-big lineups when the situation calls for it.

What this is, is an indictment of Rob who despite all of this, still couldn't get a start over Al and the players had to BEG Joe just to put Rob in. Not sure if Rob's a truthworthy commodity anymore.

Yeah Rob is a very good $10 mil. a year guy but not someone you can count on night in and night out to play smart defense and a very limited offensive player. His bag isn't deeper than Rudy Gobert's.

[fallguy]

The C's should give Al the first half of the season off. Fake an injury.

[London2Boston]

The C's should give Al the first half of the season off. Fake an injury.

Don’t see any issues. Our seeding means absolutely nothing anyway considering how bad we are at home in the playoffs.